Can a Believer Loose Their Salvation?

[Eternally Grateful]

Can eternal life be lost? No, that is called conditional life. or temporary life. or anything but eternal

Can the promise we will NEVER DIE be lost? No. Because we did not do anything to earn that status, God gave it to us by Grace. To die after God said we would never die, would make God a liar

Can the seal or pledge of the spirit be broken BEFORE the day of redemption? No. Again, this is the promise of God. He said we are sealed UNTIL the day of redemption multiple times.

Can the adoption be broken? Again, no, Our adoption was paid for by the blood of Christ. The price was paid in full. We can not unadopt ourself. we may walk away. But we have the promise the good shepherd will leave the flock, and we ill hear his voice and follow after him

Can a person who has been made into a new creature, be unmade and go back magically to the creature he or she was before? No. A dog is always a dog and will return to his vomit. But a dog who has been changed to a sheep will never be a dog again.

There are so so many things which prove our eternity is secure in christ. not in ourselves. That I am amazed we still have this discussion that we have to save ourselves or our salvation will be lost.

Its sad

 

[JBO]

You cannot find any passage in scripture that says that anyone who does not believe in God will be saved.

We are saved by Grace through faith. We can be lost through unbelief.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You cannot find any passage in scripture that says that anyone who does not believe in God will be saved.

We are saved by Grace through faith. We can be lost through unbelief.

You CAN find a passage of scripture that says that those who were with us (say they believed) and is no no longer with us (stopped believing) were never of us (Never believed in the first place) because if they were truly of us, they never would have left.

You were rescued from the pits of hell. From the turning waters of the ocean of our sin. From the fire that had us trapped.

No person would CHOSE to go back to those places. Especially after they were rescued from them

 

[JBO]

You CAN find a passage of scripture that says that those who were with us (say they believed) and is no no longer with us (stopped believing) were never of us (Never believed in the first place) because if they were truly of us, they never would have left.

You were rescued from the pits of hell. From the turning waters of the ocean of our sin. From the fire that had us trapped.

No person would CHOSE to go back to those places. Especially after they were rescued from them

It was stated of those specifically. There is no indication that is a universal truth. And there are so many, many statements for continued salvation IF...... SUCH AND XUCH. Those are conditional statements. To interpret otherwise is a serious mistake.

"Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you (Rom 11:19-21).

Broken off means that they were once a part of the basic root plant. You perhaps would not CHOSE to go back to those places. That does not mean there are not some that would. And if they do, they will be broken off.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It was stated of those specifically. There is no indication that is a universal truth. And there are so many, many statements for continued salvation IF...... SUCH AND XUCH. Those are conditional statements. To interpret otherwise is a serious mistake.

"Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you (Rom 11:19-21).

Broken off means that they were once a part of the basic root plant. You perhaps would not CHOSE to go back to those places. That does not mean there are not some that would. And if they do, they will be broken off.

Why would you post a passage that speaks of Israel as a nation to prove we can fall away in unbelief? that passage is not about induvidual salvation of anyone.

Jesus said I will never die. He said I have eternal life

If those things to do come true. Jesus lied. Period.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Faith is not a gift. Salvation is a gift to the one with faith. We are saved by grace through faith. Grace is God's part, faith is our part.

That's not what God says.

But with respect to the topic, a believer will not lose his salvation. One who ceases to believe will lose his salvation. The disbeliever or the unbeliever will not continue in salvation.

Mar 16:16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

It does not preclude the one who has disbelieved from once being a believer.

That's not what God says.

 

[JBO]

Why would you post a passage that speaks of Israel as a nation to prove we can fall away in unbelief? that passage is not about induvidual salvation of anyone..

Who do you think Paul is writing to in Romans? When it says, "neither will he spare you", who is "you"?

And by the way, most discussions on salvation are about the individual. The grafting in of Gentiles in Romans 11 is most definitely about the individual.

 

[JBO]

That's not what God says.

Yeah that is precisely what God says. Faith is not the gift in Ephesians 2:8. The gift is salvation by grace through faith. The faith is our faith. It "comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ" (Rom 10"17).

That's not what God says.

It is if you read Mark 16:16 together with Romans 11:11-24.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Yeah that is precisely what God says. Faith is not the gift in Ephesians 2:8. The gift is salvation by grace through faith. The faith is our faith. It "comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ" (Rom 10"17).

It is if you read Mark 16:16 together with Romans 11:11-24.

Happy to say,your false teaching will never sway those in Christ.

It is a pity you make such an effort. If you believe your own rhetoric,you are doomed.

 

[MatthewG]

Can eternal life be lost? No, that is called conditional life. or temporary life. or anything but eternal

Can the promise we will NEVER DIE be lost? No. Because we did not do anything to earn that status, God gave it to us by Grace. To die after God said we would never die, would make God a liar

Can the seal or pledge of the spirit be broken BEFORE the day of redemption? No. Again, this is the promise of God. He said we are sealed UNTIL the day of redemption multiple times.

Can the adoption be broken? Again, no, Our adoption was paid for by the blood of Christ. The price was paid in full. We can not unadopt ourself. we may walk away. But we have the promise the good shepherd will leave the flock, and we ill hear his voice and follow after him

Can a person who has been made into a new creature, be unmade and go back magically to the creature he or she was before? No. A dog is always a dog and will return to his vomit. But a dog who has been changed to a sheep will never be a dog again.

There are so so many things which prove our eternity is secure in christ. not in ourselves. That I am amazed we still have this discussion that we have to save ourselves or our salvation will be lost.

Its sad

Youngs Literal translates eternal life as age-during life.

John 3:15-17​

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Young's Literal Translation​

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15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during,
16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
17 For God did not send His Son to the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him;

Anyone can break up their relationship with God, how so? Going from a believing heart, into an unbelieving heart. They can stop seeking after him in faith, and go back to just seeking the things of the world.

Jesus speaks about this,

11 “This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

However, the commonality for most people who see such an act as divorcing God or choosing to decide to renounce God naturally state the following "they were never saved to begin with" which is rhetoric, and repulsing. No one knows if that really true or not, and it's possible that they will come to the realization and change their mind of their renouncement before the end of life, and Yahava the God of Israel will give them once again the spirit. Building up their spiritual life, while here, for the next life, in the hereafter.

 

[Behold]

The answer is yes, because believing on Jesus Christ as God's promised Savior is a CHOICE, not a forced decision.

People who dont understand Salvation, believe you can lose it.

What is Salvation?
Salvation is God bringing you into Himself, by Spiritual Birth.

"Born...... again".

Thats a Birth, and you can't end a birth, just like you can't stop a birth, as a birth, is a completion.
Salvation, is a spiritual birth, that God caused, and you didnt.


The best way to understand salvation, is to realize that Jesus is Salvation.

So....How do you know you are saved by God?
You will have Christ in you., because you have become a "temple of the Holy Spirit".. a "new Creation, in Christ".

This is to be born again.

"well, behold, what if i walk away from it".

You can't walk away from a birth.
Just ask your mother.
"mother, i dont believe im born any longer, ive walked away from it". "ive lost my faith in being born".

And your mother says..."oh really? will, apparently, you've lost your mind also.""""


Reader, you can't walk away from Christ in you.
He's not going anywhere.

"but behold, i just dont believe any more"..

Yet, you already did, and now you have Christ in you.

See....The only thing you can walk away from is your understanding of faith and your understanding of Salvation, and as soon as you believe you can lose it is the instant you have become deceived, about/regarding those 2.

Jesus said.,"i'll never leave you or forsake you", and that's a fact, as""" Christ in you, the hope of Glory""" is not going anywhere.

You are "fallen from Grace" yet, not from spiritual birth.

Your mind is WRONG, your faith is broken, and your theology is ROTTEN.....however, """Christ in you, the hope of Glory""", remains unchanged by your point of view or your behavior.

Salvation isn't something you do, its something you've become.

A.) "The righteousness of God in Christ"... = Born.... again.

 

[mailmandan]

People who dont understand Salvation, believe you can lose it.

Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

 

[JBO]

Happy to say,your false teaching will never sway those in Christ.

It is a pity you make such an effort. If you believe your own rhetoric,you are doomed.

Why would I be doomed? And why is it a pity that I make such an effort?

We should all be striving in our effort toward sanctification. I believe now much more deeply and firmly than many years ago when I first became a believer. Staying in God's word has strengthened my faith. I would want the same for you.

 

[mailmandan]

The passage in Hebrews has typically been poorly translated/interpreted.

Heb 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

The word "since" is a poor choice. The NASB has the marginal option of "while" instead of "since". That is a better choice and agrees more properly with other passages such as Romans 11:23,24, where "grafting back in" is positively stated provisionally on not continuing in unbelief.

I already thoroughly covered Hebrews 6:4-6 in context in post #19 and I also properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

In regard to Romans 11:17-24, the Israelites were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored - Romans 11:24-26). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not become arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God.

Professing Christians who are Gentiles are corporately in outward covenant with Christ so, it would appear that Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. I see the warning to this collective body, which is corporately joined to Christ and is in a covenant relationship, but how could this mean that every individual in it is in saving union with Christ? Hence the "cut off." Union with Christ applies to the elect, and only for the elect are, "the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." (verse 29)

But since non-elect covenant members are mixed in, Christ clearly appears to have non-elect branches, like Judas Iscariot (John 15:1-8) and while they may be joined outwardly in covenant with Christ, since they have professed faith in Jesus, the faith of some of them is spurious because they were never truly saved to begin with, even though they were among genuine believers.

 

[JBO]

Youngs Literal translates eternal life as age-during life.

John 3:15-17​

Young's Literal Translation​

15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during,
16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
17 For God did not send His Son to the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him;

Are you one of those who believes that in becoming one in Christ that you give up your free will? Or perhaps you are one who rejects the idea of the free will for mankind altogether.

 

[HIM]

Can eternal life be lost? No, that is called conditional life. or temporary life. or anything but eternal

Can the promise we will NEVER DIE be lost? No. Because we did not do anything to earn that status, God gave it to us by Grace. To die after God said we would never die, would make God a liar

Can the seal or pledge of the spirit be broken BEFORE the day of redemption? No. Again, this is the promise of God. He said we are sealed UNTIL the day of redemption multiple times.

Can the adoption be broken? Again, no, Our adoption was paid for by the blood of Christ. The price was paid in full. We can not unadopt ourself. we may walk away. But we have the promise the good shepherd will leave the flock, and we ill hear his voice and follow after him

Can a person who has been made into a new creature, be unmade and go back magically to the creature he or she was before? No. A dog is always a dog and will return to his vomit. But a dog who has been changed to a sheep will never be a dog again.

There are so so many things which prove our eternity is secure in christ. not in ourselves. That I am amazed we still have this discussion that we have to save ourselves or our salvation will be lost.

Its sad

You failed to answer the points the OP brought out.

 

[JBO]

I already thoroughly covered Hebrews 6:4-6 in context in post #19 and I also properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

But you failed so miserably in your rendition of Hebrews 6:4-6.

That passages lists six things.

1. those who had once been enlightened.
2. those who have tasted the heavenly gift.
3. those who have shared in the Holy Spirit.
4. those who have tasted the goodness of the word of God
5.those who have tasted the powers of the age to come.
6. those who had once been in a state of repentance

If you believe that one who can be characterized by those six qualities was not saved, then you have no idea at all what salvation is really about. And that is a real pity.

In addition is posits there that such a person has fallen away. You cannot fall away from some place that you have never been. So unless you have some other (really poor) understanding of what it means to fall away, your thoroughly covered interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 is truly pathetic.

 

[mailmandan]

But you failed so miserably in your rendition of Hebrews 6:4-6.

That passages lists six things.

1. those who had once been enlightened.
2. those who have tasted the heavenly gift.
3. those who have shared in the Holy Spirit.
4. those who have tasted the goodness of the word of God
5.those who have tasted the powers of the age to come.
6. those who had once been in a state of repentance

If you believe that one who can be characterized by those six qualities was not saved, then you have no idea at all what salvation is really about. And that is a real pity.

In addition is posits there that such a person has fallen away. You cannot fall away from some place that you have never been. So unless you have some other (really poor) understanding of what it means to fall away, your thoroughly covered interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 is truly pathetic.

Once again, I thoroughly covered Hebrews 6:4-6 in context in post #19 and I also properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. You just don't have ears to hear. I fully understand what salvation is really about and I don't need your pity. The sword of the Spirit hurts when it cuts which explains why you lashed out at me.

 

[JBO]

In regard to Romans 11:17-24, the Israelites were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved.

Here again, I think you missed a key point.

Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
Rom 11:22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off

Otherwise you too will be cut off. Cut off from what? You were not ever a part of the natural branches. You, at most, could have been grafted in. The Gentile who is grafted in is among the saved. It is the once grafted in who will be cut off if they don't "continue in his kindness"

 

[JBO]

Once again, I thoroughly covered Hebrews 6:4-6 in context in post #19 and I also properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. You just don't have ears to hear. I fully understand what salvation is really about and I don't need your pity. The sword of the Spirit hurts when it cuts which explains why you lashed out at me.

You covered it thoroughly wrong. It is your ears failing to hear God's word. I haven't lashed out at you. I have only pointed out your error in understanding God's word.

By the way, which of those six characteristics listed in Hebrews 6:4-6 do you think describes the unbeliever?