Can a person be a Christ-follower without falling in lock-step with the institutional church?

[St. SteVen]

No one is saved by either doctrine, or baptism. IMHO

Many Christians balk at my claim that doctrine does not save.
Citing bad doctrine as not sufficient for salvation.

When a person comes to Christ, they know nothing of doctrine, good or bad.
All they know is that they need God in their life. And that is all that matters. IMHO

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[GodsGrace]

We can't one be a Binitarian and still deserve the title "Christian?"

I THINK a Binitarian believes Jesus to be God.
Am I correct?
If a person believes Jesus is God...then he's defined as Christian.

This leaves the Holy Spirit....
Actually, I've always understood Binitarianism to be what John 1:1 states.

But I don't feel I know enough about it to say anything more.
If you want to post some links, I'd be happy to read them.

 

[GodsGrace]

Many Christians balk at my claim that doctrine does not save.
Citing bad doctrine as not sufficient for salvation.

When a person comes to Christ, they know nothing of doctrine, good or bad.
All they know is that they need God in their life. And that is all that matters. IMHO

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IF we're saved by our doctrine....
not too many are getting into heaven.

 

[St. SteVen]

IF we're saved by our doctrine....
not too many are getting into heaven.

Right.
There is no consensus on what "correct" doctrine is.

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[RedFan]

Right.
There is no consensus on what "correct" doctrine is.

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Particularly on this forum!

 

[St. SteVen]

Particularly on this forum!

LOL
Correct!
No wonder they don't believe in eternal security (OSAS).

They were saved based on fear. (the threat of hell)
And they live a life of fear. (wait and see)

To them, the fear of God is the beginning, middle and end of "wisdom".

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[GodsGrace]

Tell me more. Thanks.

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Doctrine.
How could we possibly be saved by knowing the correct doctrine?
What if we did what the NT teaches but we got some doctrine or other wrong?
Jesus didn't tell us what we're supposed to believe...
He taught us how we're supposed to live.

Maybe you care to know which doctrine in particular could lead to someone forfeiting their salvation?
This will get into OSAS and I'm not going beyond this conversation.

OSAS is not a biblical doctrine.
Why not?
Because nowhere in the NT is this idea found...
in fact, both Jesus and Paul give many warnings so that we do NOT fall into a false belief in this regard.

What is the false belief?
Some will say that after we become born again NOTHING WE DO could ever make us forfeit our salvation.
Well, that's not what is taught in the NT.
It speaks about abandoning our faith...
loosing our faith...
falling away....
being decieved and many other warnings.

Since our BEHAVIOR AFTER salvation is a real issue because Jesus and Paul both taught that our entire
behavior should revolve around love....then those that believe that salvation cannot be lost COULD, possibly, continue to live a life
of sin instead of doing what Romans 12:1 tells us to do and this WILL bring their soul into danger.
Revelation states that nothing impure will get into heaven.
Paul has a whole list of behavior that will not make it into heaven.

Yes. I believe that OSAS is a dangerous teaching...
beside the fact that it is not taught in scrpture...
nor did any of those the Apostles taught believe in it.
Paul himself said he worried he might not win the race.

If a person wants to believe in UNCONDITIONAL eternal security,,,,that's fine.
As long as they're living the life Jesus taught us to live.

 

[GodsGrace]

Right.
There is no consensus on what "correct" doctrine is.

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I wouldn't say that for ALL teachings.
One of us has to be right
and one of us has to be wrong.

HOW to know??

We could have an opinion on some things...
but some are so clear that I don't really understand why there's any doubt.

 

[Berean]

That's sort of like asking, what is more important, your name written in heaven or just chicken scratched into the membership roll of whatever local church.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

So then Church affiliation isn't of importance, it is your affiliation with Christ that is.

 

[Verily]

So then Church affiliation isn't of importance, it is your affiliation with Christ that is.

Yeah because they all package up doctrines like happy meals and I am not always going to be agreeable to whats included in that bag. Somethings I will agree with and others I might not agree with their spin on things. And then you judged by what happy meal you have agreed to. Maybe thats a bad comparison. But who agrees 100% with everything every church out there packages up for you to "become as they are" so when someone asks, "what are you"? Or where do you belong, or which church are you a part people will assume you believe everything they bundled up for you. Like it becomes your identity or something. Sometimes do you ever just not want to know, and just fellowship in the apostles teaching freely without it being prepackaged for you? I bet that would work better between Christians (from different houses, so to speak). I think the divisions become problematic moreso when they exist within one house. For example when the house of Ce dimed out another house because of the divisions within that particular house, but its own house was not divided but looking after anothers house.

That probably made no sense, not really good at putting things in my own words I guess

 

[GodsGrace]

Yeah because they all package up doctrines like happy meals and I am not always going to be agreeable to whats included in that bag. Somethings I will agree with and others I might not agree with their spin on things. And then you judged by what happy meal you have agreed to. Maybe thats a bad comparison. But who agrees 100% with everything every church out there packages up for you to "become as they are" so when someone asks, "what are you"? Or where do you belong, or which church are you a part people will assume you believe everything they bundled up for you. Like it becomes your identity or something. Sometimes do you ever just not want to know, and just fellowship in the apostles teaching freely without it being prepackaged for you? I bet that would work better between Christians (from different houses, so to speak). I think the divisions become problematic moreso when they exist within one house. For example when the house of Ce dimed out another house because of the divisions within that particular house, but its own house was not divided but looking after anothers house.

That probably made no sense, not really good at putting things in my own words I guess

I agree.
But when someone asks your religion,,,what do you reply?

 

[Verily]

I agree.
But when someone asks your religion,,,what do you reply?

Just like when I sign up on a Christian forum I just call myself a Christian.

I mean matters so little really because you could ask my family what religion they would call themselves and they would attest that they are catholics (by baby baptismal rights) and so they are baptized into that name (as they believe) so its just a brand name to them, they do not practice catholicism. My aunt was probably the only one that took it a little more hardcore, she was a catholic nun but after many years she then quit the convent life and later became something else. Like running shoes, sometimes you change the brand you typically run with or out grow them, I dont know what you would call it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Just like when I sign up on a Christian forum I just call myself a Christian.

I mean matters so little really because you could ask my family what religion they would call themselves and they would attest that they are catholics (by baby baptismal rights) and so they are baptized into that name (as they believe) so its just a brand name to them, they do not practice catholicism. My aunt was probably the only one that took it a little more hardcore, she was a catholic nun but after many years she then quit the convent life and later became something else. Like running shoes, sometimes you change the brand you typically run with or out grow them, I dont know what you would call it.

Agreed. I also define myself as Christian.
Denominations tell you what doctrine you're following...
Christian tells you that it's Jesus that you're following.
In the end, that will be our salvation...if we follow His teachings.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

View attachment 53543

Depends on which church you mean by "institutional church" I have been a believer for over 50 years and I have never agreed 100% with any church. The disagreements are minor,.

Having said that we must be a memeber of a local assembly as is commanded in Pauls letters and in Hebrews 10&12. We have to submit to a pastor teacher (not blindly) but for our maturity so we may work the work of the ministry. By being a part of a church, we must strive hard to keep the unity of the faith. We are not to make a stink over practices or customs a local church may do, unless they are heretical and clearly against Scripture. I say clearly because way to many people on this forum love to follow their own interpretations of things.

 

[Verily]

Agreed. I also define myself as Christian.
Denominations tell you what doctrine you're following...
Christian tells you that it's Jesus that you're following.
In the end, that will be our salvation...if we follow His teachings.

Sure, you do not want to remain where the dead are either.

Proverbs 21:16 The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding

shall remain in the congregation of the dead.

And shows here

Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write;

These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars;

I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

 

[Verily]

Depends on which church you mean by "institutional church" I have been a believer for over 50 years and I have never agreed 100% with any church. The disagreements are minor,.

The disagreements can be minor but people have been cast out of assemblies for the smallest of things.

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

Is the claim of only one God false? - How many gods are there?

We recognize the one true God, creator of heaven and earth. Beside Him there should be no other. Wait, should be? Doesn't that tell us right there that there are other gods? How many and for what purposes? How many of these entities in the spiritual realm are there? In ancient times there...

www.christianityboard.com

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[Ritajanice]

Many Christians balk at my claim that doctrine does not save.
Citing bad doctrine as not sufficient for salvation.

When a person comes to Christ, they know nothing of doctrine, good or bad.
All they know is that they need God in their life. And that is all that matters. IMHO

[

When a Born Again is Born Again, they start a spiritual journey with the Lord, they belong to him in spirit?
Where can I go, he owns me lock stock and barrel.

I’m no longer Of this world, I’m in Gods Kingdom and it ain’t no easy ride....my spirit is in the Spirit Of Christ, I’m one with him in spirit....all the rubbish I was fed by humans...God will undo , I will be taught his Spirit ways.,all in his timing and all by his Living Testimony.,I learn everything of a spiritual nature as a Born Again as we are partakers Of the divine nature.

They are spirit children?
What does that mean?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The disagreements can be minor but people have been cast out of assemblies for the smallest of things.

Sad but true.

In this age of Laodicea the external church is going to crumble more and more

 

[Lambano]

Songwriting doesn't pay either. - LOL

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Yes, but you will forever be remembered as the author of El Baño Mambo. If you can't have fortune, fame is a good substitute.