Can We Honor Jesus Christ Through His Mother Mary? a debate

[Job]

Idolatry??
I thought you said it was "necromancy".

Asking an inanimate object to speak on your behalf is Idolatry.

If that inanimate object happens to be a dead person, that's Necromancy. Asking the dead to speak on your behalf is Necromancy.

Dispute this if you want, there's nothing in the scriptures that allows for such behavior.

k

 

[FHII]

And yet, God approved the statues in Solomon's temple - didn't He (1 Kings 8:10-22)??

Good grief - do your homework.
I'm so embarrassed for both of you . . .

I didn't see anywhere in 1 kings 8:10-22 where God approved of statues in the temple. Perhaps I missed it after a long day's work.

I do see the ark mentioned and yes... They had Cherubims. Is that what you are referring to?

Well, I've already addressed this and didn't get much of a reply. If God tells you not to do something and then gives one or two instances where he did it or told someone to do it, its not an open license for everyone to do it.

I will go through the scenerios again. God said don't kill, then he ordered the killing of whole nations. He was against harlotry and then told one of his prophets to go to a harlot.

But do we look at that and say its ok? Of course not! Yet I see a lot of Christians doing that with a number of things. Praying in public for example. Calling Priests father. He said don't do it yet the reaction is to find someone who did it in the Bible and declare that order null and void.

Where I differ from everyone else on graven images is that I believe he didn't want them made at all. PERIOD. everyone else seems to think its ok as long as you don't worship them. I disagree.

Now before you tell me how wrong I am, why don't you ask me about it first. The bottom line is that I believe under grace it is no longer an issue (of course as long as you aren't worshipping them). So, I'm on your side on this one BOL.

Now if no one wants to discuss my point I am fine with that. But every time someone talks about the "many" times God said build statues (the both of them: the brass snake and the cherubims) my reply is that just because God said to do it there doesn't give you the right to do it here.

 

[Job]

Where I differ from everyone else on graven images is that I believe he didn't want them made at all. PERIOD. everyone else seems to think its ok as long as you don't worship them. I disagree.

That's where I'm at. Do not make them at all.

 

[FHII]

That's where I'm at. Do not make them at all.

But do you extend it to all things? Not just religious figures? And do you believe grace covers having them?

 

[Job]

But do you extend it to all things? Not just religious figures?

If they're used the way the Jesus and Mary images are used, I would say yes. But that's a whole different topic. I'm not condemning all images.

 

[Job]

And do you believe grace covers having them?

If the individual knows what they are, I don't believe it does.

If the individual is clueless, I believe it does.


Just my opinion...
h

 

[FHII]

If the individual knows what they are, I don't believe it does.

If the individual is clueless, I believe it does.


Just my opinion...
h

Wekk this might be where we are having a problem. Guys like Kelpha and Bread of Life are saying they aren't objects of worship and you seem to be saying they are.

It's a tough situation because if we see someone praying in front of a statue.... Well... What is the explanation?

If they're used the way the Jesus and Mary images are used, I would say yes. But that's a whole different topic. I'm not condemning all images.

Wel then we aren't on the same page. Any image made is in error of the law regardless of whether it is for the purpose of worship. Its covered by grace UNLESS it is worshipped.

 

[Job]

Guys like Kelpha and Bread of Life are saying they aren't objects of worship and you seem to be saying they are.

Yes, I understand that.

 

[Job]

Any image made is in error of the law regardless of whether it is for the purpose of worship.

So my avatar is in opposition to scripture?

 

[FHII]

Yes, I understand that.

Well... Unless I can pin them down with undeniable evidence, I am taking their word abouft how they worship. It may be contrary to what I see. But its not supposed to be what I see.

Do they prejudge about others' intentions? Sure they do! Not my biz....i ain't going to do it to them and I pray for God to see, so it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about it. I extend that same courtesy to them.

 

[FHII]

So my avatar is in opposition to scripture?

If it weren't for grace. Yes.

The law is impossible my friend! It's God's nature! By the flesh, we can't do it.

 

[Job]

Well... Unless I can pin them down with undeniable evidence, I am taking their word abouft how they worship.

I'm not attacking them. Why do you assume I am. Yes I pointed a finger or two, but that's only because of what was admitted to. Worshiping Jesus through images.

This has nothing to do with them. Go back and follow the debate from the start.

 

[Job]

Do they prejudge about others' intentions? Sure they do! Not my biz....i ain't going to do it to them and I pray for God to see, so it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about it. I extend that same courtesy to them.

But you'll prejudge my intentions?

 

[mjrhealth]

And yet, God approved the statues in Solomon's temple - didn't He (1 Kings 8:10-22)??

Just not in yours. A car need wheels for without it will not go, a plane needs wings withoiut it will not fly, you church needs idols because ????

 

[Mungo]

Just not in yours. A car need wheels for without it will not go, a plane needs wings withoiut it will not fly, you church needs idols because ????

And you need to hate because ???

 

[mjrhealth]

And you need to hate because ???

Hate what, that what opposes God, how can one love such things.

Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

But your "doctrines" say it ok??

Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

So why do you hate the truth so???

You need statues because ??????

 

[Mungo]

Hate what, that what opposes God, how can one love such things.

Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

But your "doctrines" say it ok??

Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

So why do you hate the ruth so???

I don't hate the truth. I dislike the way you abuse scripture.

Do you agree with and follow all the Levitical laws?

 

[mjrhealth]

I don't hate the truth. I dislike the way you abuse scripture.

Abuse scripture like the bit about

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

YEs we all know about the abuse of scripture. What do you think all tehse religions are based on Jsut go ask te hJW's who teh real church is.

So what do you need idols and statues for.???

(Eph 3:11) According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
(Eph 3:12) In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Dont need them so why have them??

 

[bbyrd009]

Well then they're guilty too.

I don't care what denomination one belongs to, speaking to the dead and expecting the dead to speak for you is a sin. Spin it anyway you want, it's still a sin. It's idolatry, plain and simple.

Do you agree or disagree?

Just curious.

well, i am not a Catholic, so you are asking me to judge another man's servant imo, and i have no desire to be judged. I have found many Catholics who quietly go about manifesting Christ, despite the RCC obviously being a worldly institution, so imo one should judge by the fruit.

 

[Mungo]

Abuse scripture like the bit about

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

YEs we all know about the abuse of scripture. What do you think all tehse religions are based on Jsut go ask te hJW's who teh real church is.

So what do you need idols and statues for.???

(Eph 3:11) According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
(Eph 3:12) In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Dont need them so why have them??

Catholic Churches do not have idols.