Can We Honor Jesus Christ Through His Mother Mary? a debate

[Job]

How sad. I expected a more robust debate.

Oh well, maybe next time.

 

[Job]

I suspect, when you are scripturally bankrupt and lack verifiable honesty, this is what one gets.

I understand exactly what you're saying.

 

[BreadOfLife]

How many people were lined up hoping to ask the cherubim to speak on their behalf?

Probably none.
That doesn't go on in Catholic churches either, Einstein.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Fine. But you didn't quote 1 kings 6. You were quoting chapter 8. So please don't bold "wrong" as if I am at fault. I am not about to scour the Bible finding the verse you mean.

Regardless, my stance is firm. Just because God said to do it there doesn't give you the right to do it here. Grace does, but one or two presidences don't.

I am on your side, don't ruin it. And next time quote the right verses.

That's the whole point - God didn't tell Solomon to put those statues in the temple.
Solomon understood the Law and that the prohibition was against the WORSHIP of images as gods - not the creation of them.

The Church also understands this - and that's why Protestant iconoclasts seem so ignorant.

 

[BreadOfLife]

If God said thou shalt not kill, he never would've told Israel to wipe out whole nations: men, women, children and animals.

If God was against prositution, he would never have told his prophet to go to a whore.
But he did! So I guess killing and prostitution is ok. Right?

God didn't say, "Thou shalt not kill." He said, "Thou shalt not MURDER."
Two different things altogether. Ecclesiastes tells us that there is a time for everything - even a time to kill.
If somebody came into your house and threatened to kill your children - it is your DUTY to protect them - even if it means killing the attacker.

As for telling his prophet to go to a prostitute - where did God tell him to go and buy her sexual services??
He didn't - so your point is moot.

 

[Job]

How many people were lined up hoping to ask the cherubim to speak on their behalf?

Probably none.
That doesn't go on in Catholic churches either, Einstein.

Mary hears our prayers, she has no power to answer them, only God can answer them. Since she is in heaven with God she is in a good position to deliver our prayers to God on our behalf,

Someone's not being honest.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Someone's not being honest.

Why would you make such an ignorant claim?
What I said is absolutely true as was the comment Kepha31 made.

Maybe if you removed your tinfoil hat - you would think a little clearer . . .

 

[Job]

What I said is absolutely true as was the comment Kepha31 made.

He contradicted your claim, how can you both be right?

 

[BreadOfLife]

He contradicted your claim, how can you both be right?

No he didn't.

YOUR position all along has been the ignorant notion that we pray to statues for help - which is NOT a Catholic practice..
I said that we don't do this - and Kepha31 said that Mary hears our prayers and delivers them to God.

We were BOTH right - and YOU are wrong on BOTH counts.

 

[Job]

I said that we don't do this - and Kepha31 said that Mary hears our prayers and delivers them to God.

2 Timothy 2
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,


What does "one Mediator" mean to you?

k

 

[Helen]

2 Timothy 2
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,


What does "one Mediator" mean to you?

k

Glad that you asked that....I too am very much interested to hear the answer to this one.

 

[BreadOfLife]

2 Timothy 2
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
What does "one Mediator" mean to you?

Glad that you asked that....I too am very much interested to hear the answer to this one.

Then read closely . . .

Jesus IS our only mediator because only His blood is the perfect sacrifice before the Father for our sins.
HOWEVER, our intercession for one another is commanded in the Scriptures (James 5:16) - making us ALL mediators.

Whenever YOU are asked to pray for somebody - YOU have become an intercessor and mediator for them.

 

[Job]

Whenever YOU are asked to pray for somebody - YOU have become an intercessor and mediator for them.

Asking someone who is alive and breathing to pray for you is not the same as asking someone who is dead to pray for you.

Not the same at all.

J

 

[Job]

Jesus IS our only mediator because only His blood is the perfect sacrifice before the Father for our sins.

Then why the need for so many?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Then why the need for so many?

Apparently your failure to understand simple concepts is matched only by your inability to read.
I already answered that in post #372.

I told you to read it closely . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Asking someone who is alive and breathing to pray for you is not the same as asking someone who is dead to pray for you.

Not the same at all.J

Can you show me where the Bible says that those who are in the eternal presence of Christ are "dead"??

MY Bible indicates that they are MORE alive than YOU or me because they've been made perfect in Christ.
YOU ain't . . .

PS - Take some time to actually R*E*A*D the Bible.
Rev. 5:8 shows the elders in Heaven taking our prayers before God.
Rev. 8:4-5 shows the Angels doing the SAME thing.

 

[Marymog]

Asking someone who is alive and breathing to pray for you is not the same as asking someone who is dead to pray for you.

Not the same at all.

I am curious about your point. It seems to me the souls in heaven, who are alive also, could do more for me than the sinners on earth who are ALSO alive. The souls in heaven have obtained salvation. The souls on earth are still seeking salvation.

So I agree with you. It is not the same at all. It seems the sinless souls in heaven would have the ear of God MORE than the sinful souls on earth.

Love...Mary

Dang...I had to edit this because BOL said the same thing I did while I was typing my response only difference is BOL used scripture to back up their point of view. I only used logic. Good job BOL.

 

[Job]

they've been made perfect in Christ.
YOU ain't . . .

What a moronic thing to say to someone.

This is for you.

Ecclesiastes 5
2 Do not be rash with your mouth,
And let not your heart utter anything hastily before God.
For God is in heaven, and you on earth;
Therefore let your words be few.
3 For a dream comes through much activity,
And a fool’s voice is known by his many words.

m

 

[FHII]

That's the whole point - God didn't tell Solomon to put those statues in the temple.
Solomon understood the Law and that the prohibition was against the WORSHIP of images as gods - not the creation of them.

The Church also understands this - and that's why Protestant iconoclasts seem so ignorant.

Well we have entirly contradicting points. AGAIN my point is that just because God said something (or allowed or aplroved or was pleased with... Whatever you want to say) at one point in time is not permission to do it all the time. Do you really want to split hairs on this? Ok. God allowed 4 cherubims and a brass serpent. Where did he say make statues of people?

My point is that its not ok to break God's law just because of a very few cases of presidence.

And once again... Its covered by grace to have them today. Not worship them... And if you say you don't I am fine with it.

Your point as i understand it is that Solomon built cerubims and moses had a brass snake, so its open season on statue making!

Well under grace sure! But it was against the law

 

[BreadOfLife]

Can you show me where the Bible says that those who are in the eternal presence of Christ are "dead"??

MY Bible indicates that they are MORE alive than YOU or me because they've been made perfect in Christ.
YOU ain't . . .

What a moronic thing to say to someone.
This is for you.

Ecclesiastes 5
2 Do not be rash with your mouth,
And let not your heart utter anything hastily before God.
For God is in heaven, and you on earth;
Therefore let your words be few.
3 For a dream comes through much activity,
And a fool’s voice is known by his many words.m

Translation:
"I'm NOT perfect - but how dare you point that out in public!"