Can you renounce Christianity without renouncing Christ?

[Jack]

Hey stevie, who do you know that renounced Christianity? Anybody?

I don't think stevie likes my questions. They're too PRO Bible.

And yet stevie said "I love the Bible".

 

[Lambano]

I left it open-ended on purpose.
But basically, Christianity (however you define it) is not a replacement for Christ. IMHO

Approaching from the other direction, what would you see renunciation of Christ being?

 

[LoveYeshua]

Perhaps renounce is too strong a word?
To renounce means to formally give up, refuse, or declare that you no longer support or have a connection with something.

Christianity could certainly be given up behaviorally (stop attending/associating), without formal declaration.
Or even passively (continue attending/associating), without formal declaration. Keep your concerns privately.

Such behavior is possible without renouncing Christ. IMHO

I think so too, God looks at the heart first and is not preventing us to show our "light" to the rest of the world.

Some churches, or individuals will disagree. What do you say?

Let them disagree, If one still follows the teachings of Christ, they remain in him. However one must not be ashamed of Him ever and profess his name always. Not many listen and today, Christians have a bad reputation they are seen as retarded somehow, this is the situation here in the province of Quebec, the catholic church here has totally destroyed the faith. the churches are empty except for a very few and older 80 plus who still cling to the ritual and go on their knees before a statue and pray in repetition mode the Hail Mary and the Lord's prayer. this is NOT what GOD's wants, He wants us to be HOLY as HE IS HOLY, He calls us sons and daughters, we should listen to God in all things and let go of false doctrines that are found in almost if not all denominations, I am still looking for a proper church and cannot find one. Still looking, this forum is the closest I have to a church.

 

[JohnDB]

Personally,
I dont see Jesus rejecting the modern conservative church....
Not a legalistic church, not a hateful isolationist church....

A conservative church....one that doesn't prohibit alcoholic beverages but does discourage them. One that still prohibits same sex marriages and adultery. But accepts divorcees who remarried.

You know....one that is fairly normal....not calvinistic or misogynistic or even political...just normal.

One engaged in their community and abroad.

Has services and small group on Sunday....also a Wednesday night program.

But.....
Now I'm being really picky....and the number of churches who do all of this is really small.

Oh well.....carry on.

 

[JLB]

Perhaps renounce is too strong a word?
To renounce means to formally give up, refuse, or declare that you no longer support or have a connection with something.

Christianity could certainly be given up behaviorally (stop attending/associating), without formal declaration.
Or even passively (continue attending/associating), without formal declaration. Keep your concerns privately.

Such behavior is possible without renouncing Christ. IMHO

Some churches, or individuals will disagree. What do you say?

[

‘it depends on what is meant by Christianity.


I believe one must repent of Christianity in order to walk with Christ.



Here‘s something to think about.


The three main antichrist religions are

Judaism
Islam
Christianity (Catholicism) but could also include any denomination that deceives their people with the false doctrine of that particular religion. IOW’s Churchianity.

 

[Jack]

I believe one must repent of Christianity in order to walk with Christ.

Repent of Christianity?

 

[JLB]

Repent of Christianity?

Yes repent of Christianity as a religion such as Catholicism or Calvinism.

 

[David Lamb]

Yes repent of Christianity as a religion such as Catholicism or Calvinism.

In bible terms, Christianity isn't a religion. The word translated "religion" in the New Testament refers to the outward aspects of belief. Yes, Christianity should affect our outward lives, but Christianity is not religion.

 

[St. SteVen]

Approaching from the other direction, what would you see renunciation of Christ being?

An abandoning of a relationship with Christ. And certainly with Christianity.
Probably including antagonism against both.

[

 

[JLB]

In bible terms, Christianity isn't a religion. The word translated "religion" in the New Testament refers to the outward aspects of belief. Yes, Christianity should affect our outward lives, but Christianity is not religion.

For me personally Christianity is not a religion.


But that’s not the case with everyone.


The different forms Christianity takes on becomes the teachings of man mixed with the word of God.


This is exactly what caused denominations. Denominations of “Christianity” are nothing more than religions of ma.


Whether Catholicism or Calvinism.

 

[Lambano]

An abandoning of a relationship with Christ. And certainly with Christianity.
Probably including antagonism against both.

[

Antagonism is a relationship. See Behold and Epi for an example of an antagonistic relationship. But, I suppose antagonism is better than just ghosting Jesus.

What is the nature of a relationship with Christ outside the context of Christianity?

 

[Soyeong]

I don't think that was his message at all. He treated the law as hearsay in Matthew chapter 5.

Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the OT hundreds of times in order to support what they said, so there is cognitive dissonance in someone taking the position that we should only follow what they said but not what they considered to be an authoritative source. For example, in Matthew 4, Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God (Deuteronomy 8:3), so he affirmed everything that God spoke in Deuteronomy and there is no sense in interpreting him in Matthew 5 as turning around and speaking against living by everything that has come from the mouth of God.

In Deuteronomy 12:32, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the Torah, and in Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for him is if they speak against obeying the Torah.

In Matthew 4, Jesus consistently preceded a quote from what was written by saying "it is written...", but in Matthew 5, he consistently precede a quote from what the people had heard being said by saying "you have heard that it was said...", so his emphasis on the different form of communication is important. Jesus was not sinning by making changes to what was written but rather he was fulfilling the law by correcting what the people had heard being said and by teaching how to correctly obey it was it was originally intended.

One can identify as a Christ-follower. As opposed to identifying with Christianity.

A Christian is by definition a Christ-follower and people have different ideas about what it means to be Christ-follower, so it doesn’t resolve the issue.

You can love your neighbor without a church membership.

God’s law also contains instructions for the King and someone can’t be a king without subjects, so there needs to be both in order to fully obey it.

 

[St. SteVen]

What is the nature of a relationship with Christ outside the context of Christianity?

I suppose it is different for everyone.
Christ meets us where we are. He know us intimately. The very hairs of our head...

In my case, I notice that He speaks to me as a friend. At my level.

And I should clarify that my relationship is with Father God.
I'm not sure why that is. He is a father to the fatherless.

[

 

[Jack]

An abandoning of a relationship with Christ.

You mean Jesus Who burned Sodom alive, including children and elderly, "making them an example"?

 

[Windmill Charge]

I left it open-ended on purpose.
But basically, Christianity (however you define it) is not a replacement for Christ. IMHO

To be clear, I suppose I had in mind the institutional church.
Whether subjectively a "good" church, or a "bad" church. Neither is a replacement for Christ.

[

That is your proplem, a target so diverse that you are using a scatter gun to shoot at everything and anything.

" Christianity is not a replacement for Christ."
Totally agree, including your understanding of Christianity is not a replacement for Christ.

So what is Christianity?

That we are sinners estranged from God and need Jesus's atoning death and resurrection to restore us into a relationship with Him/Jesus and that we show this by how we live(good works ).

If you accept that then 90% of your objection to Christians isdown to how they are working this out.

 

[St. SteVen]

So what is Christianity?

That we are sinners estranged from God and need Jesus's atoning death and resurrection to restore us into a relationship with Him/Jesus and that we show this by how we live(good works ).

If you accept that then 90% of your objection to Christians isdown to how they are working this out.

No.
That is NOT the definition I gave you.

St. SteVen said:
I left it open-ended on purpose.
But basically, Christianity (however you define it) is not a replacement for Christ. IMHO

To be clear, I suppose I had in mind the institutional church.
Whether subjectively a "good" church, or a "bad" church. Neither is a replacement for Christ.

[

 

[Windmill Charge]

No.
That is NOT the definition I gave you.

St. SteVen said:
I left it open-ended on purpose.
But basically, Christianity (however you define it) is not a replacement for Christ. IMHO

To be clear, I suppose I had in mind the institutional church.
Whether subjectively a "good" church, or a "bad" church. Neither is a replacement for Christ.

[

You haven't given any definition of what is Christianity.

Without a definition this thread is pointless.

 

[St. SteVen]

Without a definition this thread is pointless.

On the contrary.
A self-interpretive reaction is from the subconscious.



[

 

[Windmill Charge]

On the contrary.
A self-interpretive reaction is from the subconscious.

View attachment 71075

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Not if you want an intelligent ( at least I hope I'm being intelligent ) conversation.

 

[St. SteVen]

Not if you want an intelligent ( at least I hope I'm being intelligent ) conversation.

Are there intelligent conversations about modern art?



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