CATHOLIC BASHING THREAD TITLES

[Taken]

Actually - that is false.
I don't know of ONE Scripture scholar who believes that Paul didn't write his own letters.

Good grief man. YOu reuire every little detail to be explained to you, then you call it rubbish and the person wrong and a liar, and then you still flail about without understanding.

Clearing I was NOT speaking of Letters....
Clearing I was speaking of Paul ADDRESSING people FACE to FACE!

[QUOTE[Jewish and Gentile Catholics . . .[/QUOTE]

LOL

Paul

taught that we cooperate with God's grace.
He calls us "Co-WORKERS" (sunergos) with God (1 Cor. 3:9, 2 Cor. 6:1)

So? Paul's teaching is not in dispute.

It is YOUR teaching that is disputed.
Have you forgotten what YOU Teach?

God gives us the TOOLS to endure in faith.

No He does not.
He first offers Himself to all men.
Some men who choose to accept His offerings...
He Blesses them with gifts.

Men who accept His Promise of Conversion, also receive His Promise that He will forever KEEP them faithful to Him.

He doesn't endure in faith FOR us.

"Endure in Faith for us"?

Who said anything about the Lord suffering FOR a man in faith?

Can't you stay on point?

If you believe that - then you believe in a different Gospel and a different god . . .

Why would you remotely think I believe What you dream up to say? I have been quite clear, I do not agree with just about Everything you say.

Your thoughts, Your words, according to you mean a different Gospel and a different god....that's for you to deal with, not me.

DOES

the will of the Father.
In the Lesson of the Sheep and the Goats we SEE what the will of the Father is. It is charity and love for our neighbor.

Actually Gods paramount will and desire is that men Believe AND Become Converted AND present themselves Wholly Whole and Holy before Him.

If you're not DOING His will - then you are working AGAINST His will. EITHER way - you are working.
Good luck with that . . .

If you are not forgivEN, savED, born AGAIN, convertED....you are not Prepared to Serve God in His Precepts.

You teach, A man Converted IN Christ, IS NOT savED, but rather the receiving of his Salvation is Dependent UPON his life long Works....Which you "as your church teaches" IS cooperation.

We must USE the tools that are given us - the grace to not only believe - but to LOVE and to SERVE.

Uh Dude, you have to FIRST receive the "tools"...

You teach some funky theology...
Saying...
A man can BE born again...
...without choosing to be quickened.
...without receiving a permanent forgiveness.
...without receiving salvation.
...without being freed from sin.
...Continues to Sin.
...AND can then decide after receiving the Seed of God, being Born Again, that man CAN reject God!

If you're NOT loving and serving - you're like the Goats who are condemned in Matt. 25:46 . . .

One is NOT capable of loving all men, serving the Lord, or doing the Lord Will, WITHOUT the Lord.

I do not require you quoting to me scriptures scriptures that Do not apply to a Converted man, who IS IN Christ and He IN them.

You read them. You try really hard to accomplish them, by your own power, since you have not accepted His Salvation is accomplished in Converted men.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nothing new ~

Use your mindful logic to conclude your understanding.
Declare others are liars and dishonest when Gods Truth does not yeild to your minds logic.

You are without understanding the Lord desires His People to have.

Soooooo, are you saying that you CAN'T substantiate your lie that I supposedly said that Christ's Church is a "building".
That's what I thought . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Homework according to you, has been pointing men to go read Caichechism literature.... UGH! One needs a sweet roll to get through reading Caichechism sour nonsense.

In other words - you DIDN'T do your homework so you purposely perpetuated lies instead of finding out what the Church really taught.

That is bearing false witness, which is a SIN.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nothing new ~
Same old Foolish Repetitive accusations VOID of proof.

Seems that is the Way with Catholicity; repeat, repeat, repeat; Hail Mary, Hail Mary, Hail Mary.....

Too bad you were not taught the Truth.

1 Cor 1:2
Call upon the name of the Lord....

Mary, Mary, Mary.... is not the Lord!
Caihechism of the Catholic Church.
"I believe IN the holy CATHOLIC Church".
Article 9
Scripture? Christ's Church is called the holy Catholic Church?
" Mary...taken to Heaven ...Body & Soul"..
966
Scripture?

Mary ---> "she brings us gifts of eternal salvation"
968

Scripture?
"The Mother. Of God", to whose Protection the faithful fly in ALL their dangers and needs"..
971
Scripture?
Scripture or Catholicity Propaganda taught, repeated, over and over to young impressionable minds?

God IS WITHOUT Mother or Father!
Departed SOULS of the faithful go to Heaven.
The Lord distributes His Gifts to those who call ON His Name.

You have been duped.

Where is "Trinity" in Scripture??
Where us "Incarnation" in Scripture"
Where is "Accept Jesus as personal Lord and Savior" in Scripture"

As for God having a mother - Scripture TELLS us that He does.
The Bible says that Jesus is GOD (Psalm 110:1, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, 1 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 1:23, Mark 14:61-62, Luke 7:16, John 1:1, John 5:18, John 10:30, John 10:33, John 10:36, John 13:13, John 14:9-10).

Scripture tells us that Jesus (who is GOD) has a mother

Ergo, GOD has a Mother:
John 2:1
On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ MOTHER was there, and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding.

The Church NEVER claimed that the Trinity has a mother.
However, YOUR denial that God has a mother is heresy.

 

[brakelite]

The MAIN problem you have there - besides the fact that there is NO agreement on the origins of this fairy tale sect - is that there is absolutely ZERO documentation for its establishment. It is all based on several legends.

Seriously? You mean you never heard of Patrick whose own father and grandfather, according to Patrick's own written testimony, were themselves Christian leaders in their community in Strathclyde, present day Scotland? While I agree that there are many myths and legends regarding the origins of the Celtic church, most of them revolve around the Roman Catholic inspired lies regarding Patrick himself, a missionary born in the early 5th century long before any missionaries ever ventured forth from Rome. The evidence is strong in favor of the gospel reaching the shores of England, Ireland and Scotland not through Romans, who at that time were still worshippers of Mithra, but through Gaelic or Celtic missionaries from Scythia, Asia Minor, and France, who all shared apostolic roots from Paul himself. Some historians place the establishment of the Celtic church as early as 180AD, through Celtic immigrants from Asia minor. While I am not suggesting that the Celtic church was akin to a denomination, the fact that Christianity existed in Britain without any input from Rome well before the 4th century is beyond dispute.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Good grief man. YOu reuire every little detail to be explained to you, then you call it rubbish and the person wrong and a liar, and then you still flail about without understanding.
Clearing I was NOT speaking of Letters....
Clearing I was speaking of Paul ADDRESSING people FACE to FACE!

Changing your tune . . . again.

LOL

Now there's an "intelligent" response . . .

So? Paul's teaching is not in dispute.
It is YOUR teaching that is disputed.
Have you forgotten what YOU Teach?

Not at ALL.

We understand that we are co-workers (sunergos) with God.
This is what "cooperation" means, Einstein . . .

No He does not.
He first offers Himself to all men.
Some men who choose to accept His offerings...
He Blesses them with gifts.

Men who accept His Promise of Conversion, also receive His Promise that He will forever KEEP them faithful to Him.

He never promises that HE will "keep" us faithful. He gives us what we need to REMAIN faithful.
He promises that HE will be faithful and never leave us. He DOESN'T say that WE son't leave Him.

BIG difference . . .

"Endure in Faith for us"?
Who said anything about the Lord suffering FOR a man in faith?
Can't you stay on point?

Ummmmm, YOU did when you said that God "KEEPS" us faithful.
He doesn't. He leaves that us to US.

Actually Gods paramount will and desire is that men Believe AND Become Converted AND present themselves Wholly Whole and Holy before Him.

And to "believe" and "become converted" requires our obedience (works).
Without that obedience, we are NOT really converted (James 2:14-26).

MAN - it's no WONDER why Luther tried to eject the Epistle of James from his German translation . . .

You teach, A man Converted IN Christ, IS NOT savED, but rather the receiving of his Salvation is Dependent UPON his life long Works....Which you "as your church teaches" IS cooperation.

Actually - that's a LIE. The church doesn't teach that our works "save" us.
The Bible is clear that salvation is a process which requires our cooperation.
We are initially saved when we come to belief, repentance and Baptism.
We are enduring in faith in order to BE saved.
We are FINALLY saved after faithfully enduring to the end.

Uh Dude, you have to FIRST receive the "tools"...
You teach some funky theology...
Saying...
A man can BE born again...
...without choosing to be quickened.
...without receiving a permanent forgiveness.
...without receiving salvation.
...without being freed from sin.
...Continues to Sin.
...AND can then decide after receiving the Seed of God, being Born Again, that man CAN reject God!

The ONLY sins we are "permanently" forgiven for are the sins we have repented of and confessed.
We are NOT forgiven of any future sins we may commit UNTIL we repent of and confess them.

One is NOT capable of loving all men, serving the Lord, or doing the Lord Will, WITHOUT the Lord.
I do not require you quoting to me scriptures scriptures that Do not apply to a Converted man, who IS IN Christ and He IN them.
You read them. You try really hard to accomplish them, by your own power, since you have not accepted His Salvation is accomplished in Converted men.

More lies - more sins . . .

The Church has never taught that we can serve the Lord by our "own" power.
Without God's grace - we are powerless to please Him. However, BECAUSE of His grace, we MUST obey, cooperate and DO His will.

You can't just "believe" and sit back on your fanny and collect your rewards (Matt. 25:31-46).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Seriously? You mean you never heard of Patrick whose own father and grandfather, according to Patrick's own written testimony, were themselves Christian leaders in their community in Strathclyde, present day Scotland? While I agree that there are many myths and legends regarding the origins of the Celtic church, most of them revolve around the Roman Catholic inspired lies regarding Patrick himself, a missionary born in the early 5th century long before any missionaries ever ventured forth from Rome. The evidence is strong in favor of the gospel reaching the shores of England, Ireland and Scotland not through Romans, who at that time were still worshippers of Mithra, but through Gaelic or Celtic missionaries from Scythia, Asia Minor, and France, who all shared apostolic roots from Paul himself. Some historians place the establishment of the Celtic church as early as 180AD, through Celtic immigrants from Asia minor. While I am not suggesting that the Celtic church was akin to a denomination, the fact that Christianity existed in Britain without any input from Rome well before the 4th century is beyond dispute.

Absolute nonsense.

Roman CHRISTIANS were "worshippers" of Mithra?? There were "NO" missionaries from Rome by the 5th century?? You deny that the Romans were in Britain by the first century (Claudius' invasion)?? You deny that there is archaeological evidence of early Christian symbols such as Chi-Rho monograms etched into 1st, 2nd and 3rd century pottery in Britain?? Where do you get this manure??

From Wikipedia:
In 167 – At the request of Lucius of Britain, missionaries Fuganus (or Phagan) and Duvianus (or Deruvian) were sent by Pope Eleutherus to convert the Britons to Christianity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Christian_missions#Early_Christianity

If you want to have a honest discussion - let's have one.
Otherwise - go peddle your lies elsewhere . . .

 

[Taken]

Changing your tune . . . again.

No. Acknowledging your tune. Sour isn't it!

Now there's an "intelligent" response . . .

Sometimes nothing to do but laugh at such nonsense you promote.

We understand that we are co-workers (sunergos) with God.
This is what "cooperation" means, Einstein .

What do you mean "WE". I am already saved, you are waiting for Salvation.

[QOTE] He never promises that HE will "keep" us faithful. He gives us what we need to REMAIN faithful.
He promises that HE will be faithful and never leave us. He DOESN'T say that WE son't leave Him.[/QUOTE]

My Holy Father, who is Thee Holy Father, "sustains me" and "confirms me to the end".

Seems with your "holy father" you are on your own.

BIG difference . . .

Uh huh.. I CHOICES DO make a Big Difference.

, YOU did when you said that God "KEEPS" us faithful.
He doesn't. He leaves that us to US.

Uh.....No!

And to "believe" and "become converted" requires our obedience (works).

Yawn! Toddler school in session. A man who is not Converted, has NO WORKS worthy for the Lord to Consider.

Why divert to an UNCONVERTED mans "works" as if they have merit?

Do you Still not know, the OLD Creature CAN NOT Please God?

Without

that obedience, we are NOT really converted (James 2:14-26).

Thanks for yet another Scripture that applies to THOSE who KEEP the LAW, must KEEP IT ALL. James 2:10

The Law....The Jewish Law weighs Heavily on obedience TO the Law By Doing Works.

Guess you missed out on Jesus' lesson; although He fulfilled the Law, NOT all Jews would come out from Under the Law, and thus Jesus did not Destroy the Law.

If you think you are required to be obedient and DO Works according to the Jewish Law...
SO you can be Saved....get to getting.

Me....I was never Under the Law. Works I do that Glorify The Lords Name, He shall reward.
My Works have Nothing to Do with me having received or forever Keeping My Gift of Salvation given me By My Lord.

Funny how A Jewish man teaching Jews Under the Law is so intriguing to you that you adopt their teaching and then conveniently induct Jewish men into your Catholicity.

MAN - it's no WONDER why Luther tried to eject the Epistle of James from his German translation . . .

I don't know what Luther "tried" to do, but I would wager the "popes" who "have" done , are the atrocity.

Actually - that's a LIE. The church doesn't teach that our works "save" us.
The Bible is clear that salvation is a process which requires our cooperation.
We are initially saved when we come to belief, repentance and Baptism.
We are enduring in faith in order to BE saved.
We are FINALLY saved after faithfully enduring to the end.

You can Twist words into a web all day long...and still the meaning is....you claim to not be savED until your life long works are found to be acceptable.

The ONLY sins we are "permanently" forgiven for are the sins we have repented of and confessed.

And, who said otherwise?

We are NOT forgiven of any future sins we may commit UNTIL we repent of and confess them.

Future sins?
Yipes....what an Irrelevant Conversion you are taught....

Paraphrasing....

"Yo bro, get your conversion, be washed of ALL unrighteousness, Become A NEW creature, A son of God, born of His Seed, receives ye His Spirit.....

So He can dwell IN YOU.....with His power yielding to your power.....and He is getting an up close and personal view.....AS YOU CONTINUE TO SIN!"

Could any teaching be more contradictory to the Word of God....? Good Grief, what a load of bull you peddle.

You are a Gentile being taugh to be stuck in Jewish Sin Laws, and promoting the Same.

The Church has never taught that we can serve the Lord by our "own" power.
Without God's grace - we are powerless to please Him. However, BECAUSE of His grace, we MUST obey, cooperate and DO His will.

Hey You are the one promoting yourself as the Teacher of Catholic Ways, making yourself the representative of the Catholic Church.

I have been very clear, I disagree with you.
If that reflects on your Church teaching, eh, you deal with it, under the guise of your Church Teaching representative.

You can't just "believe" and sit back on your fanny and collect your rewards (Matt. 25:31-46).

Still without common sense understanding?

You are making the point over and over....that YOU "MUST" DO WORKS TO RECEIVE your Salvation.

Receiving Salvation IS PART of being Converted.

And DUH....of course after Receiving a Conversion YOU CAN DO WORKS that glorify God!

And DUH....of course you shall receive rewards from the Lord for doing Works that Glorify God.

And DUH...You shall NOT receive rewards for NOT doing works that Glorify God.

And DUH....WORKS DO NOT affect YOUR Gifts given you during your COnversion.

DUH...you do not gain Salvation for Works, nor do you LOSE Salvation for Lack of Works.

You have been told and shown this repeatedly.....and yet once again...you present your same old, same old....

Paraphrasing...

"Well ya just can't sit around and do no works".....

Well, yes a converted man can....and he shall lose rewards he could of had.

 

[Taken]

Where is "Trinity" in Scripture??
Where us "Incarnation" in Scripture"
Where is "Accept Jesus as personal Lord and Savior" in Scripture"

As for God having a mother - Scripture TELLS us that He does.
The Bible says that Jesus is GOD (Psalm 110:1, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, 1 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 1:23, Mark 14:61-62, Luke 7:16, John 1:1, John 5:18, John 10:30, John 10:33, John 10:36, John 13:13, John 14:9-10).

Scripture tells us that Jesus (who is GOD) has a mother

Ergo, GOD has a Mother:
John 2:1
On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ MOTHER was there, and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding.

The Church NEVER claimed that the Trinity has a mother.

LOL

However, YOUR denial that God has a mother is heresy.

LOL

Jesus is called many things.
And that's kind of cute, you noticed He was given an earthly mother and father to fulfill a purpose during a time He took earthly flesh upon himself to be seen of earthly men.

However you were supposed to have learned
He is Spirit, God, the Power of God, and is without beginning, and no he didn't have a mommy and daddy.

Heb 7:1-3

 

[epostle1]

No. Acknowledging your tune. Sour isn't it!
Sometimes nothing to do but laugh at such nonsense you promote.
What do you mean "WE". I am already saved, you are waiting for Salvation.

In other words you have the prize half way through the race and don't need to run to the finish line.

My Holy Father, who is Thee Holy Father, "sustains me" and "confirms me to the end".
Seems with your "holy father" you are on your own.

Our Holy Father has a pedigree traced back to Pope St. Peter. All 266 of them are human beings. The authority that Jesus gave Pope St. Peter lived on after Pope St. Peter was crucified up-side-down. Divinely appointed chairs have no expiry date. If your going to mouth off against Pope Francis, you should at least have a rudimentary understanding of the doctrine of the papacy, and maybe skim over his encyclicals so you have an idea what he actually teaches instead of the sensationalist cheap tabloid headlines. 95% of what you have been told or taught about the Pope is false.

Yawn! Toddler school in session. A man who is not Converted, has NO WORKS worthy for the Lord to Consider.
Why divert to an UNCONVERTED mans "works" as if they have merit?
Do you Still not know, the OLD Creature CAN NOT Please God?
Thanks for yet another Scripture that applies to THOSE who KEEP the LAW, must KEEP IT ALL. James 2:10
The Law....The Jewish Law weighs Heavily on obedience TO the Law By Doing Works.
Guess you missed out on Jesus' lesson; although He fulfilled the Law, NOT all Jews would come out from Under the Law, and thus Jesus did not Destroy the Law.
If you think you are required to be obedient and DO Works according to the Jewish Law...
SO you can be Saved....get to getting.
Me....I was never Under the Law. Works I do that Glorify The Lords Name, He shall reward.
My Works have Nothing to Do with me having received or forever Keeping My Gift of Salvation given me By My Lord.
Funny how A Jewish man teaching Jews Under the Law is so intriguing to you that you adopt their teaching and then conveniently induct Jewish men into your Catholicity.

Funny how Jesus, a Jewish man taught His Jewish Apostles and they all became Catholic. All these are straw man arguments. Your understanding of "good works" and "works of the law" is muddled. You come across like a 9 year old religious fanatic dressed up as a preacher for Halloween.

I don't know what Luther "tried" to do, but I would wager the "popes" who "have" done , are the atrocity.

I'll double your wager.

You can Twist words into a web all day long...and still the meaning is....you claim to not be savED until your life long works are found to be acceptable.

Another straw man fallacy.

And, who said otherwise?
Future sins?
Yipes....what an Irrelevant Conversion you are taught....
Paraphrasing....
"Yo bro, get your conversion, be washed of ALL unrighteousness, Become A NEW creature, A son of God, born of His Seed, receives ye His Spirit.....
So He can dwell IN YOU.....with His power yielding to your power.....and He is getting an up close and personal view.....AS YOU CONTINUE TO SIN!"

NOW I remember why I had you on ignore!!!!

Could any teaching be more contradictory to the Word of God....? Good Grief, what a load of bull you peddle.

Don't blame BoL for your reading deficits.

You are a Gentile being taugh to be stuck in Jewish Sin Laws, and promoting the Same.
Hey You are the one promoting yourself as the Teacher of Catholic Ways, making yourself the representative of the Catholic Church.
I have been very clear, I disagree with you.
If that reflects on your Church teaching, eh, you deal with it, under the guise of your Church Teaching representative.

Catholics have the right to give testimony of the faith within their level of competence. You have the right to give testimony of your faith and no competence is required.

Still without common sense understanding?
You are making the point over and over....that YOU "MUST" DO WORKS TO RECEIVE your Salvation.
Receiving Salvation IS PART of being Converted.
And DUH....of course after Receiving a Conversion YOU CAN DO WORKS that glorify God!
And DUH....of course you shall receive rewards from the Lord for doing Works that Glorify God.
And DUH...You shall NOT receive rewards for NOT doing works that Glorify God.
And DUH....WORKS DO NOT affect YOUR Gifts given you during your COnversion.
DUH...you do not gain Salvation for Works, nor do you LOSE Salvation for Lack of Works.
You have been told and shown this repeatedly.....and yet once again...you present your same old, same old....

On the contrary, it has been explained to you 25 times that good works done outside of the grace of Christ isn't really good works. But you shut your eyes, harden your heart and pound that never ending drum about "works salvation". I'll use stronger words and maybe some of it will sink in:
THE CHARGE OF "WORKS SALVATION" AGAINST CATHOLICS IS A LIE FROM THE PIT OF HELL. Everytime you get on this "works" "works" "works" bandwagon, you are doing satans bidding. You ignore dozens of explanations because you have too much pride to shed your man made traditions.

Scripture teaches that faith and works are organically fused, James 2:24 You rip them apart.

 

[Philip James]

Catholics have the right to give testimony of the faith within their level of competence. You have the right to give testimony of your faith and no competence is required.

This ^^^^^^ !!

Peace!

 

[Taken]

In other words you have the prize half way through the race and don't need to run to the finish line.

No, not in YOUR other words.
And not in MY words.
"IN" the Lords words.

Promoting to WAIT for Salvation, is NOT promoting to become "IN" Christ.

The "race" can not be accomplished WITHOUT the Lord. And WITH and IN the Lord IS having Received a Conversion which INCLUDES having Received Salvation.

Our Holy Father has a pedigree traced back to Pope St. Peter.

And? Our Holy Father revealed Himself to His first created male and female terrestrials He called Adam.

All 266 of them are human beings.

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing that bit of information that reveals they were naturally born IN Sin, Against God.

The authority that Jesus gave Pope St. Peter

Uh, Jesus gave no authority to one called "Pope St. Peter".

If your going to mouth off against Pope Francis,

If you are going to mouth off with such a claim, reveal your accusation of my words, against your pope "francis".

you should at least have a rudimentary understanding of the doctrine of the papacy,

About the 3rd century the Bishop of Alexandria applied the term "pope" to himself.

Men appoint men to be their holy father, Men change their own names, Men give men authority. By default, They distinguish men belong to their exclusive spiritual authority.

Jesus taught, He appoints, He changes names, Men receive their knowledge, understanding of the knowledge, and authority from thee Holy Father in Heaven.
Jesus distinguishes men belong to Gods exclusive spiritual authority, WHEN they are IN Christ.

95% of what you have been told or taught about the Pope is false.

That is a fairly accurate estimate of what I have been TOLD about the "pope", BY Catholics. Thanks for acknowledging it is false.

Funny how Jesus, a Jewish man taught His Jewish Apostles and they all became Catholic.

Funny how you havn't noticed the Catholic Church assigned that term to men who Never themselves made such claims about themselves.

All these are straw man arguments. Your understanding of "good works" and "works of the law" is muddled. You come across like a 9 year old religious fanatic dressed up as a preacher for Halloween.

Par for Catholicity; Be sure to get your derragatory dig in, in hopes That will overshadow Failure of your Understanding of the Truth.

NOW I remember why I had you on ignore!!!!

Really? Huh, I never noticed.

Don't blame BoL for your reading deficits.

And when exactly did I blame BOL? ... oh right, I didn't.

Catholics have the right to give testimony of the faith within their level of competence. You have the right to give testimony of your faith and no competence is required.

True to form, your deragatory intent noted.
Still doesn't convience me to waiver and adopt "your holy father" or "your ways".

I'll stick with thee Truth, Christ!

On the contrary, it has been explained to you 25 times that good works done outside of the grace of Christ isn't really good works. But you shut your eyes, harden your heart and pound that never ending drum about "works salvation". I'll use stronger words and maybe some of it will sink in:
THE CHARGE OF "WORKS SALVATION" AGAINST CATHOLICS IS A LIE FROM THE PIT OF HELL. Everytime you get on this "works" "works" "works" bandwagon, you are doing satans bidding. You ignore dozens of explanations because you have too much pride to shed your man made traditions.

The "Changing" of the term "works" to "cooperation" still results in claiming "life long works (by cooperation) determines IF the Lord will find the "cooperative works" acceptable and SAVE the man."

^ That is steeped historically in Jewish Law and Tradition.

Scripture teaches that faith and works are organically fused, James 2:24 You rip them apart.

Jesus taught the Jewish men WHO became IN CHRIST, were redeemed From the Consequences OF THE LAW, for NOT DOING WORKS!

Jesus taught Converstion of a man IN Christ, was His Complete Offering BY and THROUGH "HIM", for a man to being forgiven of his SINS and cleansed of ALL unrighteousness.
With the OLD being passed AWAY, and a NEW being a man made FREED from SIN, wholly whole and holy and acceptable unto Belonging TO The Lord. A NEW creature, entitled to the Title, "a" son of God.

You want to teach and preach Salvation is not part of the Lords Conversion....that's you.

You want to teach and preach a man Converted BY and Through Christ...is "a" son of God, born of Gods Seed, that SINS....
that's you.

You want to teach and preach as your brother in Catholicity BOL teaches, a Converted man Can "LOSE" his Salvation....
That's you.

You want to teach your historical affiliation and today's teaching of hanging on to the OLD Laws of the Jews.. and consequences....and wag your tongue at others because they don't....
That's you.

I trust Christ the Lord and HIS Truth, and disagree with you and your brothers in Catholicity.

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL

Gosh - I don't know how I can refute that kind of "well-researched" response . . .

LOL

Hmmmmmm, another intelligent response . . .

Jesus is called many things.
And that's kind of cute, you noticed He was given an earthly mother and father to fulfill a purpose during a time He took earthly flesh upon himself to be seen of earthly men.

However you were supposed to have learned
He is Spirit, God, the Power of God, and is without beginning, and no he didn't have a mommy and daddy.
Heb 7:1-3

WRONG.

First of all - whereas, Joseph was NOT His father but a FOSTER father - Mary was the source of his flesh.
Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit.

As for your second heretical assertion in RED - Jesus unites to Himself TWO natures.
He is FULLY God.
He is FULLY Man.
These two natures are INDIVISIBLE.

YOUR heresy lies in the arrogant notion that YOU can separate them.
You can't . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

What do you mean "WE". I am already saved, you are waiting for Salvation.

And if you're not a co-worker WITH God - you are a worker AGAINST Him.
Judging by all of your heretical posts - this makes a LOT of sense . . .

My Holy Father, who is Thee Holy Father, "sustains me" and "confirms me to the end".
Seems with your "holy father" you are on your own.
Uh huh.. I CHOICES DO make a Big Difference.
Uh.....No!

He sustains those who cooperate with His grace.
He doesn't sustain those who refuse His grace.

This is Bible 101 . . .

Yawn! Toddler school in session. A man who is not Converted, has NO WORKS worthy for the Lord to Consider.

Why divert to an UNCONVERTED mans "works" as if they have merit?
Do you Still not know, the OLD Creature CAN NOT Please God?
Thanks for yet another Scripture that applies to THOSE who KEEP the LAW, must KEEP IT ALL. James 2:10
The Law....The Jewish Law weighs Heavily on obedience TO the Law By Doing Works.
Guess you missed out on Jesus' lesson; although He fulfilled the Law, NOT all Jews would come out from Under the Law, and thus Jesus did not Destroy the Law.

If you think you are required to be obedient and DO Works according to the Jewish Law...
SO you can be Saved....get to getting.

Me....I was never Under the Law. Works I do that Glorify The Lords Name, He shall reward.
My Works have Nothing to Do with me having received or forever Keeping My Gift of Salvation given me By My Lord.

HUNDREDS of posts on at least THREES threads and you still haven't been able to produce even ONE verse that states your position that God keeps us faithful against our will.

EPIC doctrinal failure . . .

Funny how A Jewish man teaching Jews Under the Law is so intriguing to you that you adopt their teaching and then conveniently induct Jewish men into your Catholicity.

A Jewish CHRISTIAN teaching Jewish CHRISTIANS.
He's NOT teaching them Judaism, Einstein . . .

I don't know what Luther "tried" to do, but I would wager the "popes" who "have" done , are the atrocity.

Luther hated the Epistle of James as much as YOU do because it didn't support his false ideas about faith.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You can Twist words into a web all day long...and still the meaning is....you claim to not be savED until your life long works are found to be acceptable.
As I stated before - that's a perversion of Catholic teaching.

We simply don't belief in the false, man-made, 16th century invention that all that s required of us is simple "belief".

James 2:19 blows that asinine conclusion right out of the water . . .

And, who said otherwise?
Future sins?
Yipes....what an Irrelevant Conversion you are taught....
Paraphrasing....

"Yo bro, get your conversion, be washed of ALL unrighteousness, Become A NEW creature, A son of God, born of His Seed, receives ye His Spirit.....

So He can dwell IN YOU.....with His power yielding to your power.....and He is getting an up close and personal view.....AS YOU CONTINUE TO SIN!"

Could any teaching be more contradictory to the Word of God....? Good Grief, what a load of bull you peddle.

You are a Gentile being taugh to be stuck in Jewish Sin Laws, and promoting the Same.

NOT paraphrasing . . .
1 John 1:8
If WE claim to be without sin, WE deceive OURSELVES and the truth is not in US.

Notice how John, who has been born again and made a new creature in Christ INCLUDES himself.

Hey You are the one promoting yourself as the Teacher of Catholic Ways, making yourself the representative of the Catholic Church.

I have been very clear, I disagree with you.
If that reflects on your Church teaching, eh, you deal with it, under the guise of your Church Teaching representative.

And I'm not here to represent myself as anything - but only a follower of Christ as a faithful servant of His Church.
YOU, on the ot
her hand, represent yourself as an enemy of His Church (Luke 10:16).

It's not too late to rectify that . . .

Still without common sense understanding?
You are making the point over and over....that YOU "MUST" DO WORKS TO RECEIVE your Salvation.
Receiving Salvation IS PART of being Converted.
And DUH....of course after Receiving a Conversion YOU CAN DO WORKS that glorify God!
And DUH....of course you shall receive rewards from the Lord for doing Works that Glorify God.
And DUH...You shall NOT receive rewards for NOT doing works that Glorify God.
And DUH....WORKS DO NOT affect YOUR Gifts given you during your COnversion.
DUH...you do not gain Salvation for Works, nor do you LOSE Salvation for Lack of Works.
You have been told and shown this repeatedly.....and yet once again...you present your same old, same old....
Paraphrasing...
Well, yes a converted man can....and he shall lose rewards he could of had.

No - he can't because he will lose EVERYTHING (Matt. 25:31-46).

Works don't 'automatically" flow from a born again person. They are the obedience of faith.

 

[Taken]

Gosh - I don't know how I can refute that kind of "well-researched" response . . .


Hmmmmmm, another intelligent response . . .

WRONG

.

First of all - whereas, Joseph was NOT His father but a FOSTER father - Mary was the source of his flesh.
Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit.

God Was the Source of Jesus' Flesh "likeness" as an earthly man.

Mary's Womb was the unblemished (ie virgin) vessel to which the Seed of God was placed, and ultimately revealed after 9 months (according to the natural law of mankind).

Yes it was By Gods Works.
Yes Mary's Womb (vessel) was chosen to Serve the Lord God.
Yes Mary was revealed "with child".
Yes according to mans law, Mary's children were legally called her children, and she their mother.
Yes according to mans law, Joesph, husband of Mary was called father of their legally called children.

No, Mary's natural self, blood, dna, egg, has anything whatsoever to do with the Spirit of God coming upon Mary and "imparting" the Seed of God into her womb.

As for your second heretical assertion in RED - Jesus unites to Himself TWO natures.
He is FULLY God.
He is FULLY Man.
These two natures are INDIVISIBLE.

I never mentioned "natures".

And what? When a man becomes Converted, he is FULLY GOD?

YOUR heresy lies in the arrogant notion that YOU can separate them.
You can't . . .

You are still without understanding.

God is not a terrestrial.
And terrestrials are not God.

 

[aspen]

It does seem as if Protestants are trying to teach the false idea that being ‘born again’ means that nothing changes, but suddenly every behavior is now good according to God......

This is a bad teaching.

Born again is not a rubber stamp classifying you as acceptable.

Discipline and obedience and the faith to suspend your opinion long enough to learn are all necessary to become transformed into a citizen of Heaven

 

[epostle1]

"works salvation" or "works righteousness" is a heresy called Pelagianism. This has been explained in detail to certain persons 20-30 times. My theory is that anti-Catholicism causes brain damage; it renders the anti-Catholic incapable of learning. The other theory of mine is they are sadists, a sexual disorder whereby pleasure is derived from inflicting pain on others, and here we have forum sadists. They repeatedly inflict the maximum amount of pain they can draw from a discussion board. In order to "prove" they own the truth, they have to disprove the biggest and the oldest. It’s the usual Protestant “either/or” dichotomous mentality. Calvin does the same thing repeatedly. The CARM forum is peppered with false dichotomies, but invisible to those who are not aware of the tactic.

Hmm...sadism in the name of Jesus. An oxymoron if there ever was one.

 

[epostle1]

It does seem as if Protestants are trying to teach the false idea that being ‘born again’ means that nothing changes, but suddenly every behavior is now good according to God......

This is a bad teaching.

Born again is not a rubber stamp classifying you as acceptable.

Discipline and obedience and the faith to suspend your opinion long enough to learn are all necessary to become transformed into a citizen of Heaven

I would never ridicule a person who has had a life transforming experience at a church service, or a person who had a moral awakening as as a result of reciting the sinners prayer, or any given slogan.
As valuable as these experiences may be, it is not "born again" according the definition Jesus gave Nicodemus, no matter what the "born again" crowd may say.

 

[Taken]

We simply don't belief in the false, man-made, 16th century invention that all that s required of us is simple "belief".

So, Who said YOU DID?
So, Who said I DID?

James 2:19

blows that asinine conclusion right out of the water . . .

What is asinine is you making asinine accusations with your own words and then claiming YOUR WORDS are what another has claimed.

What is OLD and BORING and JUVENILE
is your repetitive FABRICATED CLAIMS YOU MAKE FOR OTHERS.

I have not seen ONE PERSON claim they believe in FALSE, MAN-MADE, 16th century inventions, OR that ALL is required is SIMPLE BELIEF.

NOT

paraphrasing . . .
1 John 1:8
If WE claim to be without sin, WE deceive OURSELVES and the truth is not in US.

Notice how

John, who has been born again and made a new creature in Christ INCLUDES himself.

And? Quote ONE PERSON saying they disagree with John?

Notice how you have repeated this verse to ad nauseam ..... TO other posters .....
BUT NOT ONCE posted those other posters CLAIMING

to have no sin

????

You are simply ATTEMPING TO IMPLY others posters have made THAT CLAIM....

YET FAIL REPEATEDLY to ad nauseam TO EVER ONCE QUOTE THEM MAKING SUCH CLAIM.

All that REVEALS is your ATTEMPT to IMPLY your OWN False implications.

YOUR MO, to ad nauseam.
IMPLY...without Facts.
Speak FOR others...then BASH THEM for YOUR claims.

And I'm not here to represent myself as anything - but only a follower of Christ as a faithful servant of His Church.

You have been pretty consistent in preaching, "Christ's Church", IS the Catholic Church.

You have been consistent IN YOUR MO.
And YES, you have revealed YOU are consistent in how "YOUR" Church "teaches" how to EFFECT "IT'S" MO.

Not impressed.

YOU, on the ot
her hand, represent yourself as an enemy of His Church (Luke 10:16).

No, I am not an enemy of His Church....
I am in disagreement with YOUR man-made Catholic Church, and your modes of operation.

It's not too late to rectify that . . .

Ugh. No desire to be yoked with men who are themselves still WAITING to be yoked with the Lord.

Works don't 'automatically" flow from a born again person.

Another example of your MO.
Make up something NO ONE SAID, and act like you are dispelling what another said, WHEN THEY DIDN'T.