Catholics; Do You Believe This?

[BreadOfLife]

Yep! Catholics are extreme to the right about that, and the Protestants are far to the left.
However, as I say, it's not about the religion of Catholics vs. Protestants, it's about
Rev.3[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Again, John 3:3-8, Romans 8:8-9.
No church can make anyone a priest, only the Lord Jesus does that!

Another complete misrepresentation of Catholic teaching.

The Church doesn't "make" anybody a priest and doesn't claim this.
Christ does.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Gossiper to boot...not surprised.

How is a thank-you PM "gossip"??
I must have hit another nerve . . .

 

[Taken]

How is a thank-you PM "gossip"??
I must have hit another nerve . . .

You are such an arrogant and crude pitiful gaslighter, but not to worry I feel no pity for you for that wide path you have chosen.

 

[Taken]

There was ONE Church that your Protestant Fathers divorced themseves from - ans that's what you need to deal with.

Christ’s Church Established BY Christ Jesus Himself, IS the ROCK foundation and HEAD of His Church.

The First members OF Christ’s Church WERE JEWS.

Too bad a group of GENTILES HIJACKED Christ’s Church...
Changed the Name, Changed the Foundation, Changed Gods Doctrine, Changed Gods Faith,
To the Catholic Church, To the Foundation Peter, To Catholic Doctrine,
To Catholic Faith...

As Time would have it, Men learned to Read, Scripture became copied and distributed and affordable....and Praise Be To God....
False Clerics began losing their edge of fooling those having been unable to read Gods TRUTH and VERIFY False Teaching.

Praise God, Protestant men DIVORCED themselves from Corrupt teachers...Corrupt preaching...
AND their dirty secrets of Corrupt Behaviors.

God IS Good!

 

[amigo de christo]

CCC2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols.

rolleyes:
First commandment:
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.)

CCC2132 cont.
Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it." The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:




Synonyms for venerate

• adore,
• deify,
• glorify,
• revere,
• reverence,
• worship

Lev 26:
[1] Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Is there any place in your land you can think of that makes or rears up graven images and teaches people to bow down unto it, and teaches it is not contrary to Gods Commands?

The king of judah himself had to destroy the brazen serpent that moses had used in the wilderness .
WHY , cause it says they were burning incense to it . THEY MADE IT INTO AN ABOMINATION .
ROME burns incense before her statues . THEY cannot deny this , I SEE THEM DO IT .
And many other things they do which are blasphemous . Prayers to the saints , prayers to mary , prayers to angels .
We must warn everyone to come out of her and do all we can to warn folks not to enter into her deadly chambers .
For her mouth is as a grave yard , Only death proceeds from her chambers . COME YE OUT OF HER one and all and let no man
woman or child enter into convenant with her .

 

[amigo de christo]

CCC2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols.

rolleyes:
First commandment:
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.)

CCC2132 cont.
Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it." The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:




Synonyms for venerate

• adore,
• deify,
• glorify,
• revere,
• reverence,
• worship

Lev 26:
[1] Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Is there any place in your land you can think of that makes or rears up graven images and teaches people to bow down unto it, and teaches it is not contrary to Gods Commands?

 

[amigo de christo]

Nehushtan . Today its NOHUSHRAN . NO we aint heeding the popes , Hush that doctrine popes and Lambs RAN from that false place .
NOHUSHRAN .

 

[Earburner]

We are born again at Baptism (John 3:5) - but it doesn't stop there.

We must live our lives iin cooperation woth God's grace and endure in faith until the end
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

Cooperating with His grace includes listenoing to His Church. If you reject His Church - you reject HIM and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16).

The Bible tells us that His CHURCH - not the individual - is the pillar and foundation of Truth v(1 Tim. 3:15) and the FULLNESS of Christ. (Eph. 1:22-23).

Correct!
So then, you do agree that Romans 8:8-9, the Baptism by Jesus, is the sole criteria for one to enter into the KoG.
The Church(es) can only baptize with water unto repentance, but it is Jesus, and Him only, that baptizes one with the Holy Spirit of God.
John 1[32] And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
[33] And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
[34] And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Therefore, many can come through the waters of baptism, with an unsincere heart, and not enter into the KoG, simply because they have not been GIVEN the free Gift of the Holy Spirit. Luke 11:13.
The parable of the Ten Virgins reveals all of that.
Matthew 25:1-12, Romans 8:8-9.

How many in the Catholic church are like that, of NOT making their "calling" and "election" sure"?
2 Peter 1:10.

 

[Earburner]

Another complete misrepresentation of Catholic teaching.

The Church doesn't "make" anybody a priest and doesn't claim this.
Christ does.

Thank you!
I am not Catholic, but I am born again of God's Holy Spirit.
Because I don't and won't become a member of the Catholic church, are you saying that I am not a "priest unto God"?

 

[Philip James]

Denominational membership guarantees nothing.

Membership in the Church guaruntees access to Grace to help us live in 'this world' as we make our pilgrimage to our true home.
It does not guaruntee that one will avail themselves of that Grace..

Pax et Bonum

 

[BreadOfLife]

Correct!
So then, you do agree that Romans 8:8-9, the Baptism by Jesus, is the sole criteria for one to enter into the KoG.
The Church(es) can only baptize with water unto repentance, but it is Jesus, and Him only, that baptizes one with the Holy Spirit of God.
John 1[32] And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
[33] And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
[34] And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Therefore, many can come through the waters of baptism, with an unsincere heart, and not enter into the KoG, simply because they have not been GIVEN the free Gift of the Holy Spirit. Luke 11:13.
The parable of the Ten Virgins reveals all of that.
Matthew 25:1-12, Romans 8:8-9.

How many in the Catholic church are like that, of NOT making their "calling" and "election" sure"?
2 Peter 1:10.

FALSE.
Baptism is NOT the “SOLE criteria” for entering into Heaven – and neither the Bible nor the Church has ever taught this.

Baptism is only the beginning for a Christian. If you don’t faithfully endure to the end, having cooperated with God’s grace - you WON’T be saved.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are such an arrogant and crude pitiful gaslighter, but not to worry I feel no pity for you for that wide path you have chosen.

Yup - I REALLY must have hit a nerve . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Christ’s Church Established BY Christ Jesus Himself, IS the ROCK foundation and HEAD of His Church.

The First members OF Christ’s Church WERE JEWS.

Too bad a group of GENTILES HIJACKED Christ’s Church...
Changed the Name, Changed the Foundation, Changed Gods Doctrine, Changed Gods Faith,
To the Catholic Church, To the Foundation Peter, To Catholic Doctrine,
To Catholic Faith...

As Time would have it, Men learned to Read, Scripture became copied and distributed and affordable....and Praise Be To God....
False Clerics began losing their edge of fooling those having been unable to read Gods TRUTH and VERIFY False Teaching.

Praise God, Protestant men DIVORCED themselves from Corrupt teachers...Corrupt preaching...
AND their dirty secrets of Corrupt Behaviors.

God IS Good!

Only in the eyes of the ignorant.
Those who are more educated in Biblical languages like Aramaic and Greek, however prove you WRONG.

Oh - and NONE of these guys are Catholics . . .
Twelve Quotations from Ten Protestant Biblical Scholars
William Hendriksen
Member of the Reformed Christian Church
Professor of New Testament Literature at Calvin Seminary
The meaning is, ‘You are Peter, that is Rock, and upon this rock, that is, on you, Peter I will build my church”Our Lord, speaking Aramaic, probably said, ‘And I say to you, you are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church”Jesus, then, is promising Peter that he is going to build his church on him! I accept this view.
New Testament Commentary: Exposition of the Gospel According to Matthew
(Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1973), page 647, JPK page 14

Gerhard Maier
Leading conservative evangelical Lutheran theologian
Nowadays a broad consensus has emerged which -in accordance with the words of the text -applies the promise to Peter as a person. On this point liberal (H. J. Holtzmann, E. Schweiger) and conservative (Cullmann, Flew) theologians agree, as well as representatives of Roman Catholic exegesis.
‘The Church in the Gospel of Matthew: Hermeneutical Analysis of the Current Debate’
Biblical Interpretation and Church Text and Context
(Flemington Markets, NSW: Paternoster Press, 1984), page 58, JPK pages 16-17

Donald A. Carson III
Baptist and Professor of New Testament at Trinity Evangelical Seminary
(two quotations from different works)
Although it is true that petros and petra can mean ‘stone’ and ‘rock’ respectively in earlier Greek, the distinction is largely confined to poetry. Moreover the underlying Aramaic is in this case unquestionable; and most probably kepha was used in both clauses (‘you are kepha’ and ‘on this kepha’), since the word was used both for a name and for a ‘rock’. The Peshitta (written in Syriac, a language cognate with Aramaic) makes no distinction between the words in the two clauses. The Greek makes the distinction between petros and petra simply because it is trying to preserve the pun, and in Greek the feminine petra could not very well serve as a masculine name.
The Expositor’s Bible Commentary: Volume 8 (Matthew, Mark, Luke)
(Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1984), page 368, JPK pages 17-18

The word Peter petros, meaning ‘rock’ (Gk 4377), is masculine, and in Jesus’ follow-up statement he uses the feminine word petra (Gk 4376). On the basis of this change, many have attempted to avoid identifying Peter as the rock on which Jesus builds his church. Yet if it were not for Protestant reactions against extremes of Roman Catholic interpretations, it is doubtful whether many would have taken ‘rock’ to be anything or anyone other than Peter.
Zondervan NIV Bible Commentary -New Testament, vol. 2
(Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1994), page 78, JPK page 18

John Peter Lange
German Protestant scholar
The Saviour, no doubt, used in both clauses the Aramaic word kepha (hence the Greek Kephas applied to Simon, John i.42; comp. 1 Cor. i.12; iii.22; ix.5; Gal. ii.9), which means rock and is used both as a proper and a common noun.... The proper translation then would be: ‘Thou art Rock, and upon this rock’, etc.
Lange’s Commentary on the Holy Scriptures: The Gospel According to Matthew, vol. 8
(Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1976), page 293, JPK page 19

John A. Broadus
Baptist author
(two quotations from the same work)
Many insist on the distinction between the two Greek words, thou art Petros and on this petra, holding that if the rock had meant Peter, either petros or petra would have been used both times, and that petros signifies a separate stone or fragment broken off, while petra is the massive rock. But this distinction is almost entirely confined to poetry, the common prose word instead of petros being lithos; nor is the distinction uniformly observed.
But the main answer here is that our Lord undoubtedly spoke Aramaic, which has no known means of making such a distinction [between feminine petra and masculine petros in Greek]. The Peshitta (Western Aramaic) renders, ‘Thou are kipho, and on this kipho’. The Eastern Aramaic, spoken in Palestine in the time of Christ, must necessarily have said in like manner, ‘Thou are kepha, and on this kepha’.... Beza called attention to the fact that it is so likewise in French: ‘Thou art Pierre, and on this pierre’; and Nicholson suggests that we could say, ‘Thou art Piers (old English for Peter), and on this pier.’
Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew
(Valley Forge, PA: Judson Press, 1886), pages 355-356, JPK page 20

J. Knox Chamblin
Presbyterian and New Testament Professor
Reformed Theological Seminary
By the words ‘this rock’ Jesus means not himself, nor his teaching, nor God the Father, nor Peter’s confession, but Peter himself. The phrase is immediately preceded by a direct and emphatic reference to Peter. As Jesus identifies himself as the Builder, the rock on which he builds is most naturally understood as someone (or something) other than Jesus himself. The demonstrative this, whether denoting what is physically close to Jesus or what is literally close in Matthew, more naturally refers to Peter (v. 18) than to the more remote confession (v. 16). The link between the clauses of verse 18 is made yet stronger by the play on words, ‘You are Peter (Gk. Petros), and on this rock (Gk. petra) I will build my church’. As an apostle, Peter utters the confession of verse 16; as a confessor he receives the designation this rock from Jesus.
‘Matthew’
Evangelical Commentary on the Bible
(Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1989), page 742, JPK page 30

Craig L. Blomberg
Baptist and Professor of New Testament
Denver Seminary
Acknowledging Jesus as The Christ illustrates the appropriateness of Simon's nickname ‘Peter’ (Petros = rock). This is not the first time Simon has been called Peter (cf. John 1:42), but it is certainly the most famous. Jesus’ declaration, ‘You are Peter’, parallels Peter’s confession, ‘You are the Christ’, as if to say, ‘Since you can tell me who I am, I will tell you who you are”The expression ‘this rock’ almost certainly refers to Peter, following immediately after his name, just as the words following ‘the Christ’ in v. 16 applied to Jesus. The play on words in the Greek between Peter’s name (Petros) and the word ‘rock’ (petra) makes sense only if Peter is the rock and if Jesus is about to explain the significance of this identification.
The New American Commentary: Matthew, vol. 22
(Nashville: Broadman, 1992), pages 251-252, JPK pages 31-32

David Hill
Presbyterian minister and Senior Lecturer in the Department of Biblical Studies
University of Sheffield, England
On this rock I will build my church: the word-play goes back to Aramaic tradition. It is on Peter himself, the confessor of his Messiahship, that Jesus will build the Church. The disciple becomes, as it were, the foundation stone of the community. Attempts to interpret the ‘rock’ as something other than Peter in person (e.g., his faith, the truth revealed to him) are due to Protestant bias, and introduce to the statement a degree of subtlety which is highly unlikely.
‘The Gospel of Matthew’
The New Century Bible Commentary
(London: Marshall, Morgan & Scott, 1972), page 261, JPK page 34

 

[BreadOfLife]

Twelve Quotations from Ten Protestant Biblical Scholars (cont'd.)

Suzanne de Dietrich
Presbyterian theologian
The play on words in verse 18 indicates the Aramaic origin of the passage. The new name contains a promise. ‘Simon’, the fluctuating, impulsive disciple, will, by the grace of God, be the ‘rock’ on which God will build the new community.
The Layman’s Bible Commentary: Matthew, vol. 16
(Atlanta: John Knox Press, 1961), page 93. JPK page 34

Donald A. Hagner
Fuller Theological Seminary
The natural reading of the passage, despite the necessary shift from Petros to petra required by the word play in the Greek (but not the Aramaic, where the same word kepha occurs in both places), is that it is Peter who is the rock upon which the church is to be built.... The frequent attempts that have been made, largely in the past, to deny this in favor of the view that the confession itself is the rock... seem to be largely motivated by Protestant prejudice against a passage that is used by the Roman Catholics to justify the papacy.
Matthew 14-28
Word Biblical Commentary, vol. 33b
(Dallas: Word Books, 1995), page 470, JPK pages 36-37

 

[Taken]

Yup - I REALLY must have hit a nerve . . .

Nope, just noting your same old obnoxious behavior.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Thank you!
I am not Catholic, but I am born again of God's Holy Spirit.
Because I don't and won't become a member of the Catholic church, are you saying that I am not a "priest unto God"?

That's not for me to judge. I can ONLY go by the words of Jesus and His Church - to whom He gave supreme eqarthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

This is what JESUS said:
Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Unfortunately - this wasn't good enough for your friend, @Taken, who rejected these words of Christ . . .

 

[Taken]

Only in the eyes of the ignorant.

Disagree. God is Good in any language.

Those who are more educated in Biblical languages like Aramaic and Greek, however prove you WRONG.

It’s not some big mystery.
Spiritual things, parallel earthy things, so little pea brains can comprehend.
Maybe you should take a class in masonry.

Oh - and NONE of these guys are Catholics . . .
Twelve Quotations from Ten Protestant Biblical Scholars

Blah, Blah, Blah....I could care less what STUDENT you run to and promote.

The Author of Gods Word is my Teacher!

 

[Taken]

That's not for me to judge. I can ONLY go by the words of Jesus and His Church - to whom He gave supreme eqarthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

This is what JESUS said:
Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Unfortunately - this wasn't good enough for your friend, @Taken, who rejected these words of Christ . . .

No need to LIE, since it only brings shame upon you. Oops.
No I have never once rejected Scripture...

Luke 10:
[16] He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Heareth YOU WHO?
But of course you do not comprehend the CONTEXT.
Jesus was speaking to His Disciples. All 80+ of His Disciples.

You pretending Priests, have carte’ blanch Authority, BY their TITLE is FALSE, or that Scholars have greater Authority, BY their
TITLE is FALSE.

Luke 10:
[30] And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
[31] And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
[32] And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
[33] But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
[34] And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
[35] And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
[36] Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

Christ Jesus is my teacher. Jesus’ Apostles are His chosen Servants. They are trustworthy.

You can follow your fallible chosen men all day long,
Doesn’t affect me.

 

[Taken]

That's not for me to judge. I can ONLY go by the words of Jesus and His Church - to whom He gave supreme eqarthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

This is what JESUS said:
Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Unfortunately - this wasn't good enough for your friend, @Taken, who rejected these words of Christ . . .

Gaslighter. What a putz.

 

[Taken]

Correct!

You know BOL is talking about having received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, as a baby, who was not aware, confessed nothing, was simply taught He had received the Holy Spirit?

It’s a delusion, same as when they say “THE Church”, they are speaking only of the Catholic Church.