Catholics; Do You Believe This?

[Illuminator]

Catholics, do you believe this from the Catholic Catechism?

No salvation outside the Catholic Church?

Any words in red is not part of the Catholic catechism I am quoting.

"824 United with Christ, the Church is sanctified by him; through him and with him she becomes sanctifying. "All the activities of the Church are directed, as toward their end, to the sanctification of men in Christ and the glorification of God."292 It is in the Church that "the fullness of the means of salvation"293 has been deposited. It is in her that "by the grace of God we acquire holiness."294"

830 The word "catholic" means "universal," in the sense of "according to the totality" or "in keeping with the whole." the Church is catholic in a double sense: First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. "Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church."307 In her subsists the fullness of Christ's body united with its head; this implies that she receives from him "the fullness of the means of salvation"308 which he has willed: correct and complete confession of faith, full sacramental life, and ordained ministry in apostolic succession. the Church was, in this fundamental sense, catholic on the day of Pentecost309 and will always be so until the day of the Parousia.

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

The irony is how the following quote from the Catholic Catechism has those who do not know about the gospel of Jesus Christ & His Church through no fault of their own are saved.

47 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

And yet

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'"321

Does any Catholic wished they had never heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ & His Church?

A stupid question. No, I do not accept your private interpretation of the catechism.
No Salvation Outside the Church | EWTN

 

[BreadOfLife]

None of your photos imply or explicitly says one person is showing affection to a person they belief to be a “proclaimed INFALLIBLE representative of Christ”!

Nothing new, of your out of context claims or hate filled comments.

And NOTHING that the Catholic Church teaches states that we "Worship" the Pope - or ANYBODY bug God Himself. The fact that he proclaims infallible teaching does NOT make him a god.

Those are just pathetic anti-Cathoolic lies . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

What is ...... THE CHURCH, according to the Catholic Church?

There is only ONE Church - not tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant factions that ALL teach different doctrines and were ALL extablishe by MEN after the 16th century.

The Catholic church is the ONLY Church established by Jesus and the Apostles.
Reject that Church - and you have rejected HIM and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16) . . .

Nope. Was simply waiting for an answer to the question.

And now that I've shown you the answer repeatedly - you continue to argue in circles.

Good job . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

TRUE STATEMENT!!! - BUT: The "CHURCH" refers to the REAL Church of Jesus Christ which is made up of people Born Again of the Holy SPirit and walking in truth.

It has nothing to do with the "Catholic Churches" (Roman and otherwise) who have totally mistaken themselves for the "Church" that Jesus died for.

There are Born AGain Christians in the Catholic churches, because God can, and does reach folks in all sorts of different environments, and lead them to Himself in spite of the religious error of the "Visible Church systems" they may be part of.

Good grief - here we go again . . .
There is NO such thing as multiple Catholic "Churches".

There is only ONE Catholic Church. "Roman" or "Melkite" or "Maronite" or"Coptic" or "Byzantine" - or the 15 or so other names simply refer to the different Liturgical Rites that compreist the ONE Catho;lic Church. Litrugical Rites are not "Churches" and are largely cultural in difference - not doctrinal.
This has been the "Real" Church from the beginning.

This is the SAME Catholic Church that we read about at the end of the 1st century from the lifelong student of the Apostled John, Ignatius of Antioch - who wrote the following on his way to martyrdom in Rome:
Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

Soooooo - if you're going to be an anti-Catholic - at LEAST try to be an educated one . . .

 

[Marymog]

Catholics, do you believe this from the Catholic Catechism?

No salvation outside the Catholic Church?

Any words in red is not part of the Catholic catechism I am quoting.

"824 United with Christ, the Church is sanctified by him; through him and with him she becomes sanctifying. "All the activities of the Church are directed, as toward their end, to the sanctification of men in Christ and the glorification of God."292 It is in the Church that "the fullness of the means of salvation"293 has been deposited. It is in her that "by the grace of God we acquire holiness."294"

830 The word "catholic" means "universal," in the sense of "according to the totality" or "in keeping with the whole." the Church is catholic in a double sense: First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. "Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church."307 In her subsists the fullness of Christ's body united with its head; this implies that she receives from him "the fullness of the means of salvation"308 which he has willed: correct and complete confession of faith, full sacramental life, and ordained ministry in apostolic succession. the Church was, in this fundamental sense, catholic on the day of Pentecost309 and will always be so until the day of the Parousia.

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

The irony is how the following quote from the Catholic Catechism has those who do not know about the gospel of Jesus Christ & His Church through no fault of their own are saved.

47 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

And yet

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'"321

Does any Catholic wished they had never heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ & His Church?

How about if you quote all of what The Church teaches instead of quoting what fits your anti-Catholic narrative:

“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation”.

“Although in ways known to himself God can lead those, who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men”

According to Scripture there is a visible Church with authority of which if you don't obey it you could loose your salvation! If he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile or a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matt. 18:17-18).

What Church is that?

 

[Taken]

There is only ONE Church - not tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant factions that ALL teach different doctrines and were ALL extablishe by MEN after the 16th century.

The Catholic church is the ONLY Church established by Jesus and the Apostles.
Reject that Church - and you have rejected HIM and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16) . . .

And NOTHING that the Catholic Church teaches states that we "Worship" the Pope - or ANYBODY bug God Himself. The fact that he proclaims infallible teaching does NOT make him a god.

Those are just pathetic anti-Cathoolic lies . . .

Yes. Catholics are instructed to accept all baptized in Christ as Christians.
We are not your enemy, but you want us to be.

There is no salvation outside the Church. That is what the Apostles taught, and the historic Church doesn't have the authority to change that. The historic Church, the Catholic Church, does not exclude separated communities from the Body of Christ, contrary to the psychotic ramblings of anti-Catholics.

You have concluded Christ’s Church is ONLY the Catholic Church and anyone NOT in agreement with you is a pathetic psychotic anti-Catholic rambling liar...
And apparently, by your conclusion anyone NOT in the Catholic Church WANTS you to be their enemy!

Good grief, how old are you people? 5?
Boo boo, whine, whine.
So someone disagrees with you, So what?
Are you so immature that you do not know you are disagreeing with them?
Anti-Protestants... Enemies...
LOL

​

 

[Taken]

Good grief - here we go again . . .
There is NO such thing as multiple Catholic "Churches".

Soooo - if you're going to be an anti-Catholic - at LEAST try to be an educated one . . .

LOL “be an educated anti-Catholic”,
AND in-turn you will try to be an educated anti-Protestant”?

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL “be an educated anti-Catholic”,
AND in-turn you will try to be an educated anti-Protestant”?

The difference between you and the other lying, ignorant anti-Catholics here and ME is that I NEVER lie about what Protestants teach or believe. I simply point out the contraditions and hypocrisies of what they - and the rest of you on the fringe teach.

YOU guys constantly lie about what Catholics believe and teach.
Thisfact alone shows your desperation . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You have concluded Christ’s Church is ONLY the Catholic Church and anyone NOT in agreement with you is a pathetic psychotic anti-Catholic rambling liar...

Actually - Ive had conversations with many non-Catholics here that I would consider friends.

Only SOME of you are "ignorant, pathetic, psychotic anti-Catholic rambling liars" . . .

 

[Taken]

The difference between you and the other lying, ignorant anti-Catholics here and ME is that I NEVER lie about what Protestants teach or believe. I simply point out the contraditions and hypocrisies of what they - and the rest of you on the fringe teach.

YOU guys constantly lie about what Catholics believe and teach.
Thisfact alone shows your desperation . . .

You’ve outdone yourself....
Single handed biggest embarrassment of decent Catholics.

 

[amigo de christo]

So we cannot be saved outside of Christ's church. His body. The question we need to ask, is the Catholic Church His?

You already know the answer to that question .And since you asked you leave me no choice but to answer it . NO Way and NO how
is it .

 

[Brakelite]

Absolutely.
Just as sure as your SDA sect is Ellen White's . . .

Well, by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[Philip James]

So we cannot be saved outside of Christ's church. His body. The question we need to ask, is the Catholic Church His?

Hello Brakelite,

The Church is catholic by definition and surely includes the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

'one can say where the Church is but not where it is not'

The Catholic Church has identified pretty much all men of goodwill as belonging to it in one fashion or another.

Through Him,
And with Him,
And in Him,

In the unity if the Holy Spirit

All glory and honour are Yours
Almighty Father

Forever and ever

It's never to late to return to the Feast!

Pax et Bonum

 

[Brakelite]

You cannot be saved if you reject Christ. Christ and His Church are ONE, according to HIM (Acts 9:4-5).
His Church is the FULLNESS of Him, according to the Holy spirit, speaking through Paul (Eph. 1:22-23).

All true. The question remains, is your church His church? And if so, what evidence do you have to support that? I ask this because there is the "sure word of prophecy" that reveals otherwise.

 

[Earburner]

Get real.
Christ’s Church IS HIS.
He Sets the Standard.
His Doctrine Rules.
His Word Rules.
His Power Rules.
Inclusion IN His Church IS exclusively according to HIS WAY.
The FIRST Included IN Christ’s Church, Were Jesus’ exclusively chosen Jewish Apostles.
Their MISSION was to First TEACH the Jews, THEN TEACH the other Tribes, and AVOID the Gentiles.
Paul’s Apostolic MISSION was to TEACH Both. First the Gentiles and then the Tribesmen.

And ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, the Apostles MISSION was to TEACH According to Christ’s WAY, standard, Doctrine, Word, Power.

Some Gentile men came along and were Appointed aids, helpers, overseers of congregations....AND?? After all the Apostles had died...

Gentiles ...
Devised another name for Christ’s Church.
Devised their own Standards.
Devised their own Doctrines.
Devised their own Words.
Devised their own Understanding.
Devised their own Powers.
Seated their own “holy father”.
Appoint their own “priests”.
Erect their own Statues.
Teach and Preach ACCORDING TO Their WAY.

Matt 16:
[13] When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?


[15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

THEY DIDN’T KNOW!

[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

YEAH...RIGHT ANSWER Simon Peter...
BUT of Course...God just gave you the ANSWER!
Always special when God does the blessing!

Jesus reminds Peter, he is Simon Barjona.
Jesus reiterates From there forward he will be called by the suname PETER, that Jesus gave him.
Jesus IS happy ALL THE DISCIPLES now KNOW...
CHRIST JESUS’ CHURCH SHALL BE BUILT UPON: The Rock...WHO IS CHRIST; His Church SHALL BE BUILD UPON:
THIS ROCK, Christ, and THESE WORDS:
Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the living God!

[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this (Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the living God.....that none of the Disciples KNEW, until God told Peter)....rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

You completely ignore the importance of Jesus ASKING...
Who am I....And UPON Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the living God,
IS Precisely what Christ’s Church is BUILD UPON.

Mark 3:
[16] And Simon he surnamed Peter;

1 Cor 10:
[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Of course, only Jesus is that stone that was cut without hands.

 

[Brakelite]

contrary to the psychotic ramblings of anti-Catholics.

I have seen no evidence here of any anti-Catholic activity or speech. I, despite what you may think, have never been anti Catholic. Anti catholicism certainly, and with good reason. And I'm willing to give sound biblical support for my views of you are interested. Just don't write them off beforehand as psychotic ramblings.

The historic Church, the Catholic Church

Being the oldest and longest continuous institution on the planet does not guarantee it's integrity. That 'history' is smeared with blood and conflict and the lives of innocent Christians who refused to submit to papal authority. And they had their reasons. And that history, the same history I imagine you would cite in support of your church's integrity, was always about power, and using fear, intimidation, and politics to control,
KJV Revelation 13:7
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

It was never about leading people to Jesus. It was always about leading people to Rome.

 

[Taken]

CCC2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols.

rolleyes:
First commandment:
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.)

CCC2132 cont.
Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it." The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:




Synonyms for venerate

• adore,
• deify,
• glorify,
• revere,
• reverence,
• worship

Lev 26:
[1] Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Is there any place in your land you can think of that makes or rears up graven images and teaches people to bow down unto it, and teaches it is not contrary to Gods Commands?

 

[Brakelite]

There is only ONE Church - not tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant factions that ALL teach different doctrines and were ALL extablishe by MEN after the 16th century.

The Catholic church is the ONLY Church established by Jesus and the Apostles.
Reject that Church - and you have rejected HIM and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16) . . .

And now that I've shown you the answer repeatedly - you continue to argue in circles.

Good job . . .

Yes, you've answered succinctly and clearly. Unless we surrender to the authority of the Catholic Church, we are lost. Got it.

 

[Taken]

The difference between you and me...

Are complete opposites....I am day you are night.

 

[Earburner]

There is only ONE Church - not tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant factions that ALL teach different doctrines and were ALL extablishe by MEN after the 16th century.

The Catholic church is the ONLY Church established by Jesus and the Apostles.
Reject that Church - and you have rejected HIM and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16) . . .

Luke 12:[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
[52] For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
[53] The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

In my understanding of Revelation 20:4, there are three distinct time periods of the Church age during God's period of Grace through His Son:
The Early church: martyred for the witness of Jesus.
The Reformation church: martyred for the word of God.
The End time church: martyred for refusal of the "MoB".