Catholics & Protestants-What's the beef?

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Seeking unity within the Body of Christ is a truly right thing to do. Not allowing "disputable matters" that are not of core beliefs to cause division. But Seeking unity with those who are outside the Body of Christ and not allowing matters of core beliefs to be a cause for maintaining division is wrong.We must be divided from those who do not hold to the Love of the truth. But teach in rebellion against it.The Body of Christ needs to seek wisdom in these matters to know what is a core belief that cannot be compromised for unity and what is a minor disputable matter that should not be a cause for division.All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[gumby]

Jesus' authority came from God and Jesus is God. Jesus said that just as the Father as sent me so I have sent you. This is Christ giving authority. And this authority has been passed down to the Church that He established - the same Church that put together the books of the Bible.

Let me put it this way if the church is not teaching gods children his word chapter by chapter and verse by verse god wont bless those churches and the walls of mens empty buildings wont be filled. The bible tells us that money is the root of evil 1st Timothy 6:10, 1st Timothy 3:3 and 1st Timothy 6:9.

 

[Christina]

there was no real bible until KJV which was put together by the Church of England who split from the Catholic Church THE CATHOLIC CHURCH NEVER GAVE US THE BIBLEthe Protestants did and anyone can get the history and find the truth .... And if you notice they want us to prove God said what the scripture says I quote 10 prophets of God and they say prove God said it ??????????/ BLASHPME .. Ye of Little faith

 

[Sir Knight]

Can any Catholic here give me a list of oral traditions?

Ask and you shall receive ... "Catholic Church Dogmas" (deposit of faith left to us by the Apostles which includes teachings from both written scripture and oral tradition) along with "Catholic Church Doctrine" can be found here" & here.I challenge anyone to find me one thing which conflicts with scripture. I'm not saying that all things will be supported by scripture (although most will be) because some things are based on the oral traditions not found in scripture but there is nothing which will conflict with scripture.

 

[Sir Knight]

there was no real bible until KJV which was put together by the Church of England who split from the Catholic Church THE CATHOLIC CHURCH NEVER GAVE US THE BIBLEthe Protestants did and anyone can get the history and find the truth ....

The fact that copies of the bible existed long before the KJV came on the scene completely disproves your point. The fact that the bible existed prior to the reformation also disproves that Protestants had anything to do with putting the bible together.

And if you notice they want us to prove God said what the scripture says I quote 10 prophets of God and they say prove God said it ??????????/ BLASHPME .. Ye of Little faith

Of course I want you to prove it. With the exception of the visions that John saw, nowhere did Jesus tell anyone to write anything down. Instead, He commanded them to go out and PREACH His message. He gave HIS authority to His Apostles. We see that this authority was not given to them personally as individuals but as their role as Church leaders when a replacement for Judas was chosen and he received full Apostalic authority.The bible even coomands us to obey our Church leaders because they can turn our souls over to Satan. Show me biblically where this authority was removed from the Apostles and their successors and transferred to a book. Nowhere in the bible does it say that I will give you church leaders for a few hundred years who will have authority over you and who you are required to obey and after you put together all of my teachings into a book, you will not longer have church leaders but are to base your faith on that book.

 

[Diana]

That is true, money is the root of all evil. But God also brings blessings. David the poor Shepherd boy DID become a king. God's chosen people who were once slaves from Egypt DID become a nation. God brings blessings as well. So, what exactly is your point?

 

[Miss Hepburn]

gumby and Diana,May I make a correction?Nowhere in the Bible or from the lips of Jesus has it ever been said that money is the root of evil or all evil. Miss HepburnCarry on...

 

[Sir Knight]

The LOVE of money is the root of all evil

 

[hx8]

The Lutheran church has something to say about the papacy:http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=12503A. The LCMS does not teach, nor has it ever taught, that any individual Pope as a person, is to be identified with the Antichrist. The historic view of LCMS on the Antichrist is summarized as follows by the Synod's Theological Commission: The New Testament predicts that the church throughout its history will witness many antichrists (Matt. 24:5,23-24; Mark 13:6,21-22; Luke 21:8; 1 John 2:18,22; 4:3; 2 John 7). All false teachers who teach contrary to Christ's Word are opponents of Christ and, insofar as they do so, are anti-Christ. However, the Scriptures also teach that there is one climactic "Anti-Christ" (Dan. 7:8,11,20-21,24-25; 11:36-45; 2 Thessalonians 2; 1 John 2:18; 4:3; Revelation 17-18). . . Concerning the historical identity of the Antichrist, we affirm the Lutheran Confessions' identification of the Antichrist with the office of the papacy whose official claims continue to correspond to the Scriptural marks listed above. It is important, however, that we observe the distinction which the Lutheran Confessors made between the office of the pope (papacy) and the individual men who fill that office. The latter could be Christians themselves. We do not presume to judge any person's heart. Also, we acknowledge the possibility that the historical form of the Antichrist could change. Of course, in that case another identified by these marks would rise. In a footnote, the Commission adds: To the extent that the papacy continues to claim as official dogma the canons and decrees of the Council of Trent which expressly anathematizes, for instance, the doctrine "that justifying faith is nothing else than trust in divine mercy which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that trust alone by which we are justified," the judgment of the Lutheran confessional writings that the papacy is the Antichrist holds. At the same time, of course, we must recognize the possibility, under God's guidance, that contemporary discussions and statements (e.g., 1983 U.S. Lutheran-Roman Catholic dialogue statement on "Justification by Faith") could lead to a revision of the Roman Catholic position regarding Tridentine dogma.

 

[gumby]

[/B] May I make a correction? Nowhere in the Bible or from the lips of Jesus has it ever been said that money is the root of evil or all evil. Miss Hepburn Carry on...

1st Timothy 6:10 it clearly states that the love of money is the root of ALL evil. And my point diana is gods not going to dwell in greedy and corrupt churches that make it there sole point to beg and teach mens traditions over gods truth.

 

[Christina]

Wrong Lo I come in the book ... Jesus It is written I already gave you scripture from 10 books but when you just deny God Words and pic and chose its pointless and the first Bible was printed in 1380 by a Protestant catholic church has did everything possible to stop common man from having a Bible So they could keep the power over them they hated the idea ...They did everything to hinder it not help ..Now I know that not what your church tells you..but its true .... It doesn't even matter accept that you are so arrogant that the Catholic Church is so much better and we somehow owe you something .... The first hand-written English language Bible manuscripts were produced in the 1380's AD by John Wycliffe, an Oxford professor, scholar, and theologian. Wycliffe, (also spelled “Wycliff” & “Wyclif”), was well-known throughout Europe for his opposition to the teaching of the organized Church, which he believed to be contrary to the Bible. With the help of his followers, called the Lollards, and his assistant Purvey, and many other faithful scribes, Wycliffe produced dozens of English language manuscript copies of the scriptures. They were translated out of the Latin Vulgate, which was the only source text available to Wycliffe. The Pope was so infuriated by his teachings and his translation of the Bible into English, that 44 years after Wycliffe had died, he ordered the bones to be dug-up, crushed, and scattered in the river! The printing press wasn't invented until 1450 we have a couple efforts made for a Bible .... But the the catholic church had almost nothing to do with it except prevent it .....anyone can follow the timeline .... These older bibles are available on line you can see for yourselfs how there was no really good Bible until KJV ... Done by the Church of England that split from the Catholic church ... The fact the church might have held the manuscripts and didnt want the common man to have them is not the same as giving us the Biblein fact as I said it was last thing they wanted http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/

 

[Diana]

[/B]

You cannot serve both God and Mammon. One either loves God or loves money. Sir Knight made the correction.

 

[Diana]

1st Timothy 6:10 it clearly states that the love of money is the root of ALL evil. And my point diana is gods not going to dwell in greedy and corrupt churches that make it there sole point to beg and teach mens traditions over gods truth.

My brother, Jesus came down to save sinners. He walked among the greedy, the corrupted, and the sinners. And St. Paul DID say to keep the traditions he handed over both in oral words and in letter (2 Th. 2:15). We didn't follow men's traditions. What was passed down to us were the Apostolic traditions that St. Paul was speaking about in the Bible.

 

[Diana]

and the first Bible was printed in 1380 by a Protestant catholic church has did everything possible to stop common man from having a Bible

The Bible existed before 1380. It was put together by the Catholic Church and translated into Latin because that was the main language at that time.

Although John Wycliff is often credited with the first translation of the Bible into English, there were, in fact, many translations of large parts of the Bible centuries before Wycliff's work. Toward the end of the seventh century, the Venerable Bede began a translation of Scripture into Old English (also called Anglo-Saxon). Aldhelm (AD 640–709), likewise, translated the complete Book of Psalms and large portions of other scriptures into Old English. In the 11th century, Abbot Ælfric translated much of the Old Testament into Old English.The English Bible was first translated from the Latin Vulgate into Old English by a few select monks and scholars. Such translations were generally in the form of prose or as literal translations above the Latin words. As time went on, however, English translations became more frequent into the evolving Middle English. All of the translations made the Bible more accessible to the public, both to those who were literate and through oral interpretation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_translations_of_the_Bible

 

[Christina]

exactly my point their was no printing press there were only copies of writings and the manuscripts in Latin for a select few priest only Not for the common man .....the church wanted to keep it that way ..... The first Bibles made available to the masses were protestant efforts to the give it to Gods children not the Church's .... There was no mass access available until we had the printing press .... 1450 .... The efforts to make the Bible public did not come... from Catholics but in spite of them ....

 

[Diana]

Below is the truth from this website: http://www.deoomnisgloria.com/archives/2006/06/did_the_catholic_church_forbid.html Johann Gutenberg invented the printing press' date=' and Gutenberg was a Catholic and the Church approved of and encouraged his printing of Bibles[/B']. Before the printing press copying the Bible was the work of Catholic monks in monasteries who actually took a pen and paper and copied books of the Bible to create additional copies.

 

[Christina]

Johann Gutenberg invented the printing press in the 1450's, and the first book to ever be printed was a Latin language Bible, printed in Mainz, Germany. Gutenberg’s Bibles were surprisingly beautiful, as each leaf Gutenberg printed was later colorfully hand-illuminated. Born as “Johann Gensfleisch” (John Gooseflesh), he preferred to be known as “Johann Gutenberg” (John Beautiful Mountain). Ironically, though he had created what many believe to be the most important invention in history, Gutenberg was a victim of unscrupulous business associates who took control of his business and left him in poverty. Nevertheless, the invention of the movable-type printing press meant that Bibles and books could finally be effectively produced in large quantities in a short period of time. This was essential to the success of the Reformation.http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/gutenberg.html The first hand-written English language Bible manuscripts were produced in the 1380's AD by John Wycliffe, an Oxford professor, scholar, and theologian. Wycliffe, (also spelled “Wycliff” & “Wyclif”), was well-known throughout Europe for his opposition to the teaching of the organized Church, which he believed to be contrary to the Bible. With the help of his followers, called the Lollards, and his assistant Purvey, and many other faithful scribes, Wycliffe produced dozens of English language manuscript copies of the scriptures. They were translated out of the Latin Vulgate, which was the only source text available to Wycliffe. The Pope was so infuriated by his teachings and his translation of the Bible into English, that 44 years after Wycliffe had died, he ordered the bones to be dug-up, crushed, and scattered in the river!http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Thanks, Christina, good job.

 

[Martin W.]

. Before the printing press copying the Bible was the work of Catholic monks in monasteries who actually took a pen and paper and copied books of the Bible to create additional copies.

.DianaI have enjoyed all of your posts , I am not of your denomination (Catholic I presume) and differ with you on several things.But why does your account show disabled ? Have you done this? Can you reply? I have been looking forward to some of your responses and you have gone silent. Thus my questions.You are an intelligent debater who shows respect to others who disagree with your position. I hope to hear more from your perspective.I appreciate the information on the Monks writing out copies of scripture for the early growing church.Some folks think the Protestant 1611 King James is the first word of God , they conveniently leave out one thousand five hundred years.Martin W.

 

[Christina]

This is a Non denominational Bible study sitehttp://www.christianityboard.com/showthread.php?p=74822#post74822 and I didnt skip 1500 years I quoted history anyone can look up