Caught...IN THE VERY ACT

[heavenforbid]

Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?"

Her answer: "No man, LORD."

Her answer was not so much a declaratory statement as is was an interrogatory statement. She knew she was guilty and deserved what the law had demanded as punishment for her crime. But, what she was actually saying was, "No man is left to condemn me, but You are the Lord God Almighty...Are YOU going to stone me?"

"Neither do I condemn thee. Go and sin no more."

What a wonderful revelation of the love and mercy of Jesus. He is not trying to see how many of us He can keep out of heaven, He's trying to see how many of us He can get IN there.

Praise to our "wonderful, merciful Savior, precious Redeemer and Friend; Who would have thought that a Lamb could rescue the souls of men?"
Praise to Him indeed!

She deserved stoning for adultery? How about some jail time or relationship rehabilitation, or a fine.

Stoning, indeed.

 

[bbyrd009]

He is not trying to see how many of us He can keep out of heaven, He's trying to see how many of us He can get IN there.

nice. Now if it can just be seen that there is no "there" to go to, and that anyone pointing out heaven as some future place that you might go is defying Scripture, much would be gained.

 

[Webers_Home]

-

She deserved stoning for adultery? How about some jail time.

There's quite a variety of punishments stipulated in the covenant that
Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus. Leviticus, Numbers, and
Deuteronomy; but incarceration isn't one of them. Were America to
eliminate its penal systems, the savings to tax payers would amount to
something like 40 billion dollars a year.

/

 

[Webers_Home]

-
● John 8:10-11 . . Jesus said to her: Woman, where are they? Does no one
condemn you? And she said: No one, sir. And Jesus said: Neither do I
condemn you

Uninformed people often point to that incident to illustrate Jesus' kind
hearted nature. But the reality is; Jesus was a stickler for due process. In
other words: he had to let the woman go because the covenant that Yhvh's
people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and
Deuteronomy requires the testimony of at least two witnesses in capital
cases.

● Deut 17:6-7 . . At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he
that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he
shall not be put to death. The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him
to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt
put the evil away from among you.

NOTE: It's fun to speculate about what Christ wrote on the ground. Well, as
for me; I suspect it was the names of girlfriends that the woman's accusers
had on the side that they thought nobody knew about. Hence when Christ
said "let him who is without sin cast the first stone" he wasn't talking about
sin in general; no, he talking about the same sin; viz: adultery.

/

 

[epostle1]

Since the Baby in Mary's womb wasn't Joseph's, according to the law she should have been put to death.

 

[bbyrd009]

zing

 

[Phoneman777]

you dont invite jesus into your herat that is absolute rubbish.

Rubbish?

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If any man open the door..."

 

[Phoneman777]

nice. Now if it can just be seen that there is no "there" to go to, and that anyone pointing out heaven as some future place that you might go is defying Scripture, much would be gained.

"I go to prepare a PLACE for you, and if I go, I will come again and receive you unto Myself, that WHERE I am, you will be also."

 

[Phoneman777]

-
● John 8:10-11 . . Jesus said to her: Woman, where are they? Does no one
condemn you? And she said: No one, sir. And Jesus said: Neither do I
condemn you

Uninformed people often point to that incident to illustrate Jesus' kind
hearted nature. But the reality is; Jesus was a stickler for due process. In
other words: he had to let the woman go because the covenant that Yhvh's
people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and
Deuteronomy requires the testimony of at least two witnesses in capital
cases.

● Deut 17:6-7 . . At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he
that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he
shall not be put to death. The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him
to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt
put the evil away from among you.

NOTE: It's fun to speculate about what Christ wrote on the ground. Well, as
for me; I suspect it was the names of girlfriends that the woman's accusers
had on the side that they thought nobody knew about. Hence when Christ
said "let him who is without sin cast the first stone" he wasn't talking about
sin in general; no, he talking about the same sin; viz: adultery.

/

So, the crowd of men accusing the woman was insufficient? Remember, they said she was caught "in the very act".

 

[mjrhealth]

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If any man open the door..."

Nothing to do with your heart, at least you know its there, nice to see you back, be a change from all the other stuff.

 

[bbyrd009]

"I go to prepare a PLACE for you, and if I go, I will come again and receive you unto Myself, that WHERE I am, you will be also."

i don't disagree with the passage, but i suggest that we look for a physical place, in some future, when Christ likely meant a spiritual one that occurs when we manifest Christ in the earth, right now (Esau, despising his birthright for a meal). This is not a denial of some different tomorrow, but an agreement with other passages of the Book that must be considered, imo, when you are led to believe in some future existence which you cannot demonstrate, and is likely not truth. Christ goes to prepare a place for you, yes; but you do not know where you come from, or where you are going, so the matter is left just ambiguously enough for you to justify a "place" called heaven, should you so desire, even though heaven is likely a state, and not a place, and God is everywhere, and Meshach, Shadrach, and Abed~Nego were perfectly comfortable in the furnace, see, and we are told to let the tares grow with the wheat, and heaven is coming to earth, not the other way around. "Hell" then becomes a necessary invention, as "the other place," or more properly "the place where the losers--who are not me, a winner, on the winning team--go." (and of course as i am now Qualified, and have been given the Seal of Approval--by my new friends--i can confidently point out who is who, and treat them accordingly). Lol. Complete madness, tailored to suit your ego, is what that is.

So iow you might be encouraged to suppose that Christ is "coming to receive you unto Himself" when you die and "go to heaven," but this is likely not what was meant at all, if you are already "the Body of Christ."
A valid next question for someone who believes that, the first one, is "Are you now in Christ, or not?" And imo Saul's convo with the then deceased Samuel should be considered in this light. Yes, your soul will continue in some "form" after you die, but you do not know what form that is, and anyone assuring you that they do know is full of it, and defying Scripture, as you can discover for yourself. And it is virtually axiomatic that the surer they are, the faster you should run.

The best shepherds are those who will admit that they do not know about this tomorrow with any certainty, but that we have plenty to overcome today anyway, and that's where the focus should be.
Of course no one much likes that, even me, but this is contained in the lesson of Esau, who God had hated, who squandered his birthright. Yes, the lesson of Esau is one for a seeker after God, so if you are already a believer in something that precludes your applying this lesson to your walk, then you might reflect upon this, for what it is worth. I am Esau, whom God had hated. At least when i am not busy being Cain, plowing my own ground, or some other conflicted figure illuminated in the Book.

 

[Phoneman777]

i don't disagree with the passage, but i suggest that we look for a physical place, in some future, when Christ likely meant a spiritual one that occurs when we manifest Christ in the earth, right now

My friend, the reason there is so much spiritual confusion about the Bible is that many disregard the mindset of the Bible authors. This is necessary if Christians today are going to be freed to engage in the kind of "truth discover" that so often manifests itself nowadays. Truths so plainly laid bare by the Holy Spirit are characterized as nebulous, intangible, and wide open for speculation so that individuals may engage in an endless round of "eureka" when they think they've cornered some little obscure truth from what was plain but is now made mysterious so that they can anxiously share it with glee - sort of how the Greeks were always ready and willing to hear "some new thing".

It was a well known custom among the Hebrews that when a man found a woman which agreed to be his bride, HE DID NOT relocate himself to where she and her family resided - he returned home TO HIS OWN LAND and constructed a marriage chamber, after which he would return for her and BRING HER BACK TO HIS LAND for the wedding. Jesus is without question using "Hebrew marriage" language when He speaks of returning to His Father to build "a place" for us, after which He will "come again and receive" us to Himself and take us back to His Father. Therefore, the physical place of His kingdom cannot possibly be here and it is pointless to speculate when and where on Earth it might be. Of course, after the millennium when the saints are in heaven and the Earth lies desolate, God will relocate New Jerusalem from where it is now to the "new heaven and new Earth" which is made new and forevermore Earth will be the capitol of God's universe.

Unfortunately, Christianity today is not interested in self-evident truth in which to walk - it is interested in excitement of which it can feel, even to the point of disregarding context, Hebrew mindset, Hebrew chiastic poetic sentence structure, etc., where if such things were always taken into account, God's way of salvation would be bright and shining plainly before men and it would be impossible to make light dark and darkness light.

 

[bbyrd009]

yet you still do not know where you came from, or where you are going. So while i do not know, either, i suggest that those passages are interpreted to suit whomever reads them, and you may certainly assume that heaven is not coming to earth, and that Christ is taking you to some other place, if you like. But we are told in other passages that the Kingdom is very near you, even right beside you. Right now.

Therefore, the physical place of His kingdom cannot possibly be here and it is pointless to speculate when and where on Earth it might be.

So therefore the physical place of His Kingdom may not have anywhere else to be, if we are responsible for the physical plane, and it is all our domain. My kingdom is not of this world. Kosmou. On earth as it is in heaven. Erets. Be in the world, but not of it. Leave the world, but stay in it. Might this most Spiritual person, in this most Spiritual Book, be telling you that He is coming to address something that you still lack in the physical? Or is that actually a chimera, a sales pitch, a Ponzi scheme, made up of our desire and a little wishful thinking/interpretation? See, you can read water or wine, but either way you cannot quote the verse that puts you physically in heaven, "where God is." The place that Christ prepared for us is likely a Spiritual place, don't you think?

What if you already have everything you need, and it is Christ waiting on us, not us waiting on Christ, as we are led to believe?
(and only God knows the day or the hour, when one might grasp this truth)
Or, what is it that you lack? That might be a better way to get at this. What keeps you from being in the Kingdom, right now?

Because the place was prepared when the Holy Spirit was sent, i bet.
Light is turned to darkness when you convince another soul to accept the bargain with death, that you are certain that God will honor.
Yet you still do not know where you came from, or where you are going. Or at least i don't. So is it that you have been convinced that you do know?

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 On the contrary, what does it say? The message (Word, Gospel, Kingdom) is near you, in your mouth and in your heart. This is the message of faith that we proclaim:

so then, where are you waiting for Christ to come back from, i have to ask, if we are the Body of Christ, and we have the Holy Spirit? Have a good day.

 

[bbyrd009]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3J_h1GrogY&list=PLzMamFjYdWu9cNL2-aV_wWmy6vNJKfvyq&index=8

 

[Phoneman777]

yet you still do not know where you came from, or where you are going. So while i do not know, either, i suggest that those passages are interpreted to suit whomever reads them, and you may certainly assume that heaven is not coming to earth, and that Christ is taking you to some other place, if you like. But we are told in other passages that the Kingdom is very near you, even right beside you. Right now.

So therefore the physical place of His Kingdom may not have anywhere else to be, if we are responsible for the physical plane, and it is all our domain. My kingdom is not of this world. Kosmou. On earth as it is in heaven. Erets. Be in the world, but not of it. Leave the world, but stay in it. Might this most Spiritual person, in this most Spiritual Book, be telling you that He is coming to address something that you still lack in the physical? Or is that actually a chimera, a sales pitch, a Ponzi scheme, made up of our desire and a little wishful thinking/interpretation? See, you can read water or wine, but either way you cannot quote the verse that puts you physically in heaven, "where God is." The place that Christ prepared for us is likely a Spiritual place, don't you think?

What if you already have everything you need, and it is Christ waiting on us, not us waiting on Christ, as we are led to believe?
(and only God knows the day or the hour, when one might grasp this truth)
Or, what is it that you lack? That might be a better way to get at this. What keeps you from being in the Kingdom, right now?

Because the place was prepared when the Holy Spirit was sent, i bet.
Light is turned to darkness when you convince another soul to accept the bargain with death, that you are certain that God will honor.
Yet you still do not know where you came from, or where you are going. Or at least i don't. So is it that you have been convinced that you do know?

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 On the contrary, what does it say? The message (Word, Gospel, Kingdom) is near you, in your mouth and in your heart. This is the message of faith that we proclaim:

so then, where are you waiting for Christ to come back from, i have to ask, if we are the Body of Christ, and we have the Holy Spirit? Have a good day.

The Bible answers with utmost clarity where we came from and where we are headed. We came from God pure and upright, but through the sin of our first parents, humanity was plunged into the darkness of the curse of sin from which escape is impossible without the power of God to overcome it. Those who choose to do so will inherit eternal life, while those who claim to be covered by grace but continue to serve their Sin Master, Satan, shall be cast into the Lake of Fire.

 

[bbyrd009]

well, you can believe all that if you like, and if you squint and don't compare any other passages, you might even make a case from the Bible, but i suggest that God is bringing heaven to earth, while Christians are mostly occupied with where we might spend "eternity," and the second model strikes me as the more marketable one. So i have to ask if you ever gave any money to the people who taught you that? Because the Original Sin model is deeply flawed anyway, as shown by brighter minds than mine, and that comes from a jaundiced eye imo. You can certainly believe that if you like, but in my experience you cannot help but end in pride and arrogance, openly disputing other passages.

2Everything is the same for everyone: there is one fate for the righteous and the wicked, for the good and the bad, for the clean and the unclean, for the one who sacrifices and the one who does not sacrifice.

 

[Phoneman777]

well, you can believe all that if you like, and if you squint and don't compare any other passages, you might even make a case from the Bible, but i suggest that God is bringing heaven to earth, while Christians are mostly occupied with where we might spend "eternity," and the second model strikes me as the more marketable one. So i have to ask if you ever gave any money to the people who taught you that? Because the Original Sin model is deeply flawed anyway, as shown by brighter minds than mine, and that comes from a jaundiced eye imo. You can certainly believe that if you like, but in my experience you cannot help but end in pride and arrogance, openly disputing other passages.

2Everything is the same for everyone: there is one fate for the righteous and the wicked, for the good and the bad, for the clean and the unclean, for the one who sacrifices and the one who does not sacrifice.

When discussing God's kingdom, we must always differentiate between the literal and spiritual. While the spiritual kingdom of God yet alive in the hearts of those who love God and are yet trapped in this world ruled by the prince of darkness, according to the prophetic timetable of Daniel 7, God's literal kingdom is not yet, but will be established only after the judgment.

It is not necessary to squint at Scripture to see this - squinting leads to a distortion of truth. If you have any verses to suggest otherwise, then list them. Biblical truth never depends on the circling of intellectual wagons around it for defense - that is reserved for ideas which cannot stand the test of Biblical scrutiny. Truth is established on the firm foundation of the Word of God alone, so if you have any verses at all which suggest that God's literal kingdom is now established and in place at this very moment, please present them.

 

[bbyrd009]

ok i'll have to think about a decent reply here, but right off the bat you suggest a kingdom that will come by observation, imo, and i'm also going to debate this "those who love God and are yet trapped in this world ruled by the prince of darkness." Not buying that at all wadr. Leave the world; be in it but not of it and that problem goes away imo. And if the kingdom has already come very near us, and we are the Body of Christ, and have the Holy Spirit, then i'll suggest that Daniel is being taken too literally, if it leads one into eschatologies of tomorrow, at least imo. Will the kingdom be manifest more tomorrow, than it is today? Sure, broadly speaking. Can you be sure that the kingdom will only manifest after you have died and been judged, literally? Now you gotta squint for that, imo, no matter how many guys in ties with Doctorates of Theology might agree with you.

...His real aim may have been the religious who expressed faith in an afterlife with utmost certainty, a trend still going strong today.

No mere mortal knows what occurs after death, yet that hasn’t stopped many from speculating...
http://bigthink.com/21st-century-spirituality/fear-of-death

all of our most confident expressions of what happens after death--"paradise, bosom of Abraham," etc, amount to words, as well as generally disagreeing with Samuel, channeled through the Witch of Endor, imo. Anyone who tells you that they know what happens after death is lying to you, and i do not mean unintentionally. They are deliberately deceiving you, in assuring you that they know, and they are ignoring several Scriptures that advise against this pov to boot.

21no one will say, 'Look here!' or 'There!' (in the future) For you see, the kingdom of God is among you."

 

[bbyrd009]

("it isn't what you hoped for, is it?")

 

[tabletalk]

mjrhealth said: "... As for heaven, Ive being there as for Jesus I have met Him, all these thing you can have if you would but give him a chance,..."

You've been to heaven and met Jesus? Can you expound on those experiences? Did Jesus talk?

I believe you had those experiences, but they do not edify me in any way or help increase my faith; not a witness for the God that I cannot see; yet I believe Him, without having experiences or visions such as yours. Are we commanded to relate our visions or personal revelations?