Caught...IN THE VERY ACT

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mjrhealth

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I believe you had those experiences, but they do not edify me in any way or help increase my faith; not a witness for the God that I cannot see; yet I believe Him, without having experiences or visions such as yours. Are we commanded to relate our visions or personal revelations?
No they do not, but is what He has to offer to those who believe. When one has put on the rightousness of Christ and stops trying to figure it all out for himself, when one walks in faith many doors are opened and many doors are closed. One day I hopw christianlty will stop condeming teh world and themselves.
 

bbyrd009

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i think a point to make is that one might interpret mjrs experience as being some supernatural thing, when it is available to anyone willing to step out in faith, and meet Him in the air. I know this phrasing seems nebulous, but it is the phrasing of Scripture, and there is no better one, i guess. Another reflection is that of an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other, and one just commits themselves to the first one.

We are led into a fence-sitting kind of worship of Christ in religion, as a Snake on a Pole, when it can be read that Christ spent His entire ministry bringing people back to a practical faith that is meant to be lived. "I desire mercy, and not sacrifice." So while i grasp mjrs testimony there, i would add that at least for me, it was the experience of being dragged back to the here and now, where i rarely was, and recognizing how one might serve Christ in their next decision/action, rather than serving themselves. It forces one to listen to the present as it unfolds, rather than to insinuate or force their will into it, which is what we naturally do. To understand what is needed or best in the moment, rather than expecting others to accommodate us, with our heads stuck in some plan for the future, or some pain in the past, which is again what most people do unconsciously, without realizing it.

So rather than look for some religious experience, one might spend a day or two just recognizing how much time they spend mentally in the past or the future, and how they might be ignoring the present almost entirely, and basically ignoring the people right in front of them, except for some usually token communication, and then in a dominant or submissive way, rather than with humility. It is likely that we avoid the present precisely because we are drawn into these dead, dominant/submissive social contracts, when we have the power to change the conversation.

i don't doubt that many or most people who feel led to enter "the ministry" hope to do just that, but see how this "ministry" necessarily separates the minister from the mundane, and removes worship of Christ to a religious venue, "the church," where we go once or twice a week for an hour, and our daily interactions with Christ are reduced to recruiting other people into the same belief system, and reinforcing our belief that everyone else is lost. Sin and death become the only subjects of discussion, and yesterday and tomorrow are made the focus, even if it is not put that way.

We are early in our walk encouraged to believe that passages in the Bible such as "the blind leading the blind" or "sitting on a fence" apply to "lost" people, and since we are now "saved" they do not need to be considered in our walk. We are counselled that we have surely now escaped hell--after we die--and that we will now go to heaven, after we die. And while a case can certainly be made for this from the Book, much other Scripture must be negated or ignored in order to do so, and you will have no reply when confronted with these passages; when you read them, you will read right past them, believing that those parts of Scripture are, what, written for people who do not believe in God or something, i guess. The lesson of Esau is meant for the seeker, not referring to any "lost" guy.

It is inevitable that a religious system and an Official church would arise in response to Christ, but that does not mean that you have to fall into it. And you do not have to trust me on this, you can just even accept this as a possibility--not even a probability, if you like--one to be ruled out, but one that you are open to finding the truth of, for thoroughness' sake or whatever, just to be sure you are walking toward God as best you are able. The moment you are mentally steered to the past or the future, when Christ is herenow, you might question why this was done.

Or set up some other thought experiment. Go try and find "hell" for humans in the Lexicon, perhaps--because it is not in there. Pick some doctrine that you are absolutely convinced of, and seek a different pov for it; you do not have to change your belief right then, you can fake it for purposes of discovering truth. If what you believed was the best approximation of truth, then it will stand, you will not have forgotten it. But contrary to what has been stated here earlier, the Book is written so that people may see and not see, and It is not clear at all--or if you think It is, then state a clear doctrine that you believe comes from Scripture, and we will see. One can read water or wine, or distilled wine, even; and ministers can only give you water, i guess. This does not mean that they don't serve a purpose, and i don't mean to condemn them, as after all they are just people, groping toward God themselves; yet you can't get a sermon on going out by way of the 12 or the 70, and isn't that the reason you started going to church? To follow Christ's direction?