Rex, was the previous comment directed towards me? If so, could you explain what you meant? Surely you're not taking issue with my comment that east an west symbolize the whole world?
Chapter 14
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reply to boldHeRoseFromTheDead said:
Not at all
I agree I was posting a verse from Eze 47 that shows IMO the river flowing fron the temple into the symbolic world "the Dead Sea"
I apologize, I sometimes bold other peoples comment and bold in my own, I shouldn't presume people always make the connection.
While were on the topic I would like guysmith to remember that "from the East to the West" should always be considered "eternity or forever" first, I used it above in another way,
The former sea and the hinder sea
Zechariah 14: 8 And
it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from
Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward
the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
see Bold above and bold below comment
You're laboring under the false assumption that all of the events in Zechariah 14 must occur at the same time. The events in verses 1-2 accurately describe what happened during the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. The events in verses 4-5 have also obviously occurred. What justification do you have to ignore these past fulfillments to project them into the future?veteran said:
HeRoseFromTheDead
As we stand on our Rock of salvation, pointing to His testimony, it's interesting to see who cries out in denial of what he has brought,
Psalm 118:22-23
Matthew 21:43-44
throw a stone into a pack of wolves, the one that got hit cries the loudest
As we stand on our Rock of salvation, pointing to His testimony, it's interesting to see who cries out in denial of what he has brought,
Matthew 21:43-44
throw a stone into a pack of wolves, the one that got hit cries the loudest
It's interesting that you mentioned Matthew 21:44. I had started to say that reality was going to crush his fantasy worldview, but softened my tone.Rex said:
Nah, ALL the events of Zechariah 14 are still FUTURE to us today (except the two historical references mentioned there that I covered). You're listening to men's doctrines designed to get you away from an OT witness as to how Christ's second coming will occur, pointed to in Acts 1 during His ascent. Your labour is in vain, mine is not.ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
What justification do I have? A lot, it's called "the day of the Lord" in both the OT and NT Scriptures...
1Thes 5:1-6
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
(KJV)
2 Pet 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
(KJV)
That day of The Lord event was mentioned in the very first verse of Zechariah 14 now wasn't it???
Zech 14:1-2
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
(KJV)
YEP!
So go back to those false ones you're listening to and warn them that Christ Jesus is COMING! And they cannot... stop it. Their New World Order they're trying to setup today is NOT going to last!
You obviously are not a careful student of scripture, because if you were you would know that the Hebrew behind the KJV doesn't say THE day of the lord, but A day of the lord. The definite article THE is missing from Zechariah 14:1 in the Hebrew text, as it is in numerous other places in the OT that describe A day of the lord, but not THE day of the lord. So your attempt to link this verse that refers to A day of the lord with other verses that talk about THE day of the lord (which is future), like 1Thes 5:1-6 and 2 Pet 3:10-12, is fraudulent.veteran said:
So in effect you are the one listening to false ones, i.e., the ones who mistranslated that verse in the first place. If you only use the King James Version (KJV) as your source, then you are going to make these kinds of errors and fabricate these ungrounded fantasies that you teach.
The Zechariah 14:1 phrase is the same as this here folks...
Isa 13:9-13
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of His fierce anger.
(KJV)
That is the same... day Apostles Paul and Peter spoke about in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5 and 2 Peter 3:10.
So who are you going to listen to brethren? The false Jews that have come here to try and pry falseness into your minds, or directly to The Scriptures Itself?
Isa 13:9-13
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of His fierce anger.
(KJV)
That is the same... day Apostles Paul and Peter spoke about in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5 and 2 Peter 3:10.
So who are you going to listen to brethren? The false Jews that have come here to try and pry falseness into your minds, or directly to The Scriptures Itself?
Again, just like Zechariah 14:4, the Hebrew of Isaiah 13:9 says A day (יום) of the lord, not THE day (היום) of the lord.veteran said:
The connection you are trying to make is a fantasy of your mind and falsehood because scripture doesn't corroborate your witness.
"So who are you going to listen to brethren? The false
Acts 2:19-20
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
(KJV)
Joel 2:30-31
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
(KJV)
2 Pet 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(KJV)
Mal 4:1
1 For, behold, the day (yowm Strong's 3117) cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day (yowm Strong's 3117) that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
(KJV)
Hebrew yowm is used for 'day'. The subject there is a CERTAIN DAY, the day of The Lord Jesus' return and judgment upon this world.
Obviously, ChristRoseFromTheDead is who's living in a fantasy world.
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
(KJV)
Joel 2:30-31
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
(KJV)
2 Pet 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(KJV)
Mal 4:1
1 For, behold, the day (yowm Strong's 3117) cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day (yowm Strong's 3117) that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
(KJV)
Hebrew yowm is used for 'day'. The subject there is a CERTAIN DAY, the day of The Lord Jesus' return and judgment upon this world.
Obviously, ChristRoseFromTheDead is who's living in a fantasy world.
Yes, there is a day of the lord coming, but there have been other days of the lord in the past.veteran said:
Don't pay any attention to him brethren, for the false Jews have a false teaching of trying to persuade us that the "day of the Lord" phrase in the OT prophets can mean just about ANY time of God's judgments.
All they're trying to do is CHANGE the meaning of those Scriptures to prevent teaching about that 'day' in association with Christ's future second coming. Another reason is to keep us away from understanding prophecy in the OT prophets that was NEVER fulfilled in association with that phrase, not even to our days!
Here's an OT example they claim was already fulfilled in Jeremiah's days...
Jer 46:6-10
6 Let not the swift flee away, nor the mighty man escape; they shall stumble, and fall toward the north by the river Euphrates.
7 Who is this that cometh up as a flood, whose waters are moved as the rivers?
8 Egypt riseth up like a flood, and his waters are moved like the rivers; and he saith, I will go up, and will cover the earth; I will destroy the city and the inhabitants thereof.
9 Come up, ye horses; and rage, ye chariots; and let the mighty men come forth; the Ethiopians and the Libyans, that handle the shield; and the Lydians, that handle and bend the bow.
10 For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that He may avenge Him of His adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.
(KJV)
That DID historically apply to God's judgments in the time of king Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon.
Rev 16:12-16
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
(KJV)
Wow! Did you notice our Lord Jesus also used that idea about the river Euphrates being dried up there in Revelation for the end of days?
Jeremiah 46 thus becomes an "ensample" for us upon whom the end of this world has come. It has a DUAL application. This is why our Lord Jesus also gave the quote about Babylon's destruction from Isaiah 21 in Rev.14 & 18, that "Babylon is fallen, is fallen", which in Rev.14 & 18 is for the end of this present world time.
But the false Jews like the Pharisees our Lord Jesus rebuked that strain at a gnat will never... come to that understanding. They're too busy with word play, can't see the forest for the trees!
All they're trying to do is CHANGE the meaning of those Scriptures to prevent teaching about that 'day' in association with Christ's future second coming. Another reason is to keep us away from understanding prophecy in the OT prophets that was NEVER fulfilled in association with that phrase, not even to our days!
Here's an OT example they claim was already fulfilled in Jeremiah's days...
Jer 46:6-10
6 Let not the swift flee away, nor the mighty man escape; they shall stumble, and fall toward the north by the river Euphrates.
7 Who is this that cometh up as a flood, whose waters are moved as the rivers?
8 Egypt riseth up like a flood, and his waters are moved like the rivers; and he saith, I will go up, and will cover the earth; I will destroy the city and the inhabitants thereof.
9 Come up, ye horses; and rage, ye chariots; and let the mighty men come forth; the Ethiopians and the Libyans, that handle the shield; and the Lydians, that handle and bend the bow.
10 For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that He may avenge Him of His adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.
(KJV)
That DID historically apply to God's judgments in the time of king Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon.
Rev 16:12-16
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
(KJV)
Wow! Did you notice our Lord Jesus also used that idea about the river Euphrates being dried up there in Revelation for the end of days?
Jeremiah 46 thus becomes an "ensample" for us upon whom the end of this world has come. It has a DUAL application. This is why our Lord Jesus also gave the quote about Babylon's destruction from Isaiah 21 in Rev.14 & 18, that "Babylon is fallen, is fallen", which in Rev.14 & 18 is for the end of this present world time.
But the false Jews like the Pharisees our Lord Jesus rebuked that strain at a gnat will never... come to that understanding. They're too busy with word play, can't see the forest for the trees!
Your own logic is self-defeating. You say correctly that this Jeremiah prophecy has been fulfilled. Once a prophecy has been fulfilled there is no rationale for projecting its fulfillment into the future, unless it is repeated in a prophecy that occurs after its fulfillment. The Hebrew of the Jeremiah prophecy reads THE day of the lord, which you insist has to be future, yet you admit this prophecy has been fulfilled... DOH!veteran said:
And it did... historically apply, AS A TYPE! And that means it was NEVER completed, not even to this day.
But go, buy ye up some more gnats, and learn what that means.
But go, buy ye up some more gnats, and learn what that means.
But if it wasn't fulfilled it wouldn't have been repeated again in the book of Revelation. The Jeremiah prophecy was fulfilled as a type during Babylonian times, and the Revelation prophecy points to a future time.veteran said:
Likewise, getting back to the OP, Zechariah 14:1-2 accurately describes events that happened in 70AD, so we must view those events as the fulfillment. Any prophecy after that would apply to the future.
Your exegetical method is sloppy and basically open to any spin you want to put on it.
NONE of the Zechariah 14 events happened historically, not even to our day, not even as a type. Your false wanderings against the "day of the Lord" phrase in Zechariah 14 have been Biblically proven to be false assumptions. Moreover, the context and weight of all the other events written in Zechariah 14 further proves that whole chapter is yet future still with the time of Christ's SECOND COMING.
We now all know where you get those false assumptions from, Partial Preterism, a DOCTRINE OF MEN, and not of God's Word.
We now all know where you get those false assumptions from, Partial Preterism, a DOCTRINE OF MEN, and not of God's Word.
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