Charismatic Witchcraft in the Church!

[Angelina]

Charismatic Witchcraft in the Church

A friend of mine was very disturbed one night after joining in praying for a member of his music team who had just applied for a job. Their prayers included binding others from getting the job and enabling her to be successful. This type of prayer smacks of charismatic witchcraft as this may not be the job that God had in mind for her or the direction that he may want her to go. He was going to pray that this job position open or close according to God's will but felt so overwhelmed by the pressure of the group who really like this girl and wanted her to be successful in her application. He also felt uneasy as some members used the words "crush"

This situation bought to mind other types of prayer that I have noted around the net. Some believers have taken to prayer methodologies that may have worked in the past but most Christians using these techniques do not know what they are letting themselves in for nor have they asked God for fresh revelation or direction in prayer for themselves. They continue to rely on passed strategies that had worked at one time in a certain situation for a specific group of people. This type of methodology comes across more like a rote than "an effective prayer of a righteous man availeth much" type of praying.

I have also found that some using prayer methodologies "reverse curses." I have never in my time as a Charismatic/Pentecostal, ever believed that reversing curses is from God nor is it scriptural. As as matter of fact it is the extreme opposite of what the bible says;
14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Romans 12

any thoughts? :huh:

 

[rockytopva]

I am Wesleyan Pentecostal. I believe that, like William Seymour, one must tarry and wait on the Lord for more of him. Here is the doctrine as I believe it in metaphor to the Hebrew Temple.

1. Justification - We are justified through faith - The Outer Gates
2. Salvation - A simple profession of faith in Jesus our sacrifice is all that is needed for salvation. The Alter
3. Outer Sanctification - Conforming oneself to a righteous believers standard. - The Laver
*****Inner Temple - Jesus is the door! Inner sanctification******
4. The Word - Growing daily in the word of God - The Table of Shewbread
5. The Spiritual Light - Paul called these the fruits of the Spirit - The Candlestick
6. Prayer and Praise - Alter of Golden Incense
****The Vail of the Inner Temple
7. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit - The anointing! The Holy of Holies!

In which William Seymour, the architect of this doctrine warns....

“Whenever the doctrine of the baptism in the Holy Ghost will only be known as the evidence of speaking in tongues, that work will be an open door for witches and spiritualist and free loveism. That work will suffer because all kinds of spirits can come in.” - William Seymour


Here is the image I copied and enhanced from Seymour's book...

I was brought up Baptist in which they use to take us on extended youth retreats. I could feel a spiritually clean sensation as we would study the word and there was also a pleasant spiritual light in the retreat. Almost like a wonderful stay within the Inner Temple! One of the problems with the Charismatic movement is that they do not tarry long enough in the inner temple. With a lot of churches they just tell you to just praise the Lord and it will fall on you. Almost like a trip through the Entrance Gate right to the Golden Incense Alter. With no stops at the Laver to pick up a righteous believers standard, and the trip and the table of shewbread to feast on the word of God! In which we must heed Seymour's warning and not make this thing all about receiving spiritual gifts!

Also, the price of a good Bible College is priceless as they spend time in the word of God. Hopefully the chapel services are inspirational as well.

 

[IanLC]

The Holy Ghost is gentle as a dove yet mightier than a rushing wind. He is also intelligent and will not lead into witchcraft or anti-Christ or evil things. In all things we must leave room for God's Sovereignty! He is God and does what He wants, how He wants and when He wants! We must therefore learn to accept and submit to His Will and When HIS Will becomes my will then We will accomplish and do great thins for the kingdom of God!

 

[Angelina]

My friend was thinking of leaving this Church because of the way these prayers were conducted. I agree with his discernment on this but persuaded him to stay and if the opportunity presented itself again, that he should pray according to the leading of the Spirit rather than the pressure of the group. Sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe to be right - even if you are standing alone. Based on what he has said, the team did not need to use spiritual warfare techniques [binding and loosing] in a matter that only required intercession. [standing in the gap] :huh:

Shalom!!!

 

[musterion]

Pardon a boring anecdote but it fits this topic.

Many years ago I worked in a big name "Christian" bookstore (in quotes because much of it was unbiblical hokum, heresy and, yes, witchcraft but that's beside the point of this story...but if I named the chain you'd recognize it).

One day a young woman came in, helped along by her sisters. She was very frail, almost skeltal and completely bald. When they got to the checkout, we asked if they'd like to be added to the prayer list we kept. She was quite pleased to be asked and her sister said she was undergoing treatment for a tumor the size of a grapefruit.

Even though it didn't seem to bother them when I said it, I suppose some would consider it a mistake that I said, "We most certainly will pray for God's will over you," and we meant it.

Standing in line behind that group was a tall, older man. He'd seemed somewhat agitated during our conversation and as the ladies turned to leave with the t-shirt they'd bought, he said to them, "Wait a minute." He went to the ill woman and asked if he could see the shirt she just bought. She took it from the bag and he placed it between her hands and squeezed her hands between his, tightly, for several seconds. As he did so, he mumbo-jumbo'd to her about how the annointing of healing was flowing into the shirt so that when she put it on, she was guaranteed by the Holy Spirit that the tumor would be killed and she would be completely healed.

I couldn't read her reaction for sure, but it was a combination of excitement and nervousness from this guy's forcefulness, as he was right up in her face.

As he turned to go, he stopped and pointed at me. He ordered her, "And when you're completely healed, you come back and tell HIM [me] that God still heals!" Then he stormed out.

I was at the store for some months after that and never saw the young woman again so I have no idea what happened to her. I'd like to think God healed her despite that fool's presumption but, even if she died, that is the ultimate form of healing for a believer, which I believe she was.

Here's the punchline: as for the old dude himself - no joke - he wore coke-bottle thick glasses, behind which his eyes were partly whited over with cataracts. The question this raised in my mind about his true faith in God's ability to heal on demand should be obvious.

With all that said, I do believe God CAN heal. There was one instance in my own life, as a very young Christian still in college, I was struggling severely with such issues such as modern-day claims of miracles. Did God heal at all? Does He only heal through certain people who (in my experience) always seemed very arrogant about it, never humble? This question really was tearing me up.

I was standing in my bathroom when out of nowhere what felt like an icepick driven into my right kidney came over me - intense pain like I never had before and have never had since. It was so bad everything started to go white on me. On my way to my knees to pass out, I asked the Lord that if it is His will to heal me of this, please do so because I wasn't sure I wouldn't die. Instantly, the pain - ALL of it - vanished completely and never returned. I believe God gave me an object lesson at that time, as He did when my car ran off the road and should have killed me.

Anyway, I DO believe 100% that God can and - if He chooses - does heal. But He does it DIRECTLY, meaning (in my opinion) He no longer grants the ability to heal to any living human being. Nor is His healing under ANY circumstances guaranteed to happen.

Meaning anyone who does claim to have such power is either lying or very deceived. And those who have some magic formula for commanding God to heal on demand are practicing exactly that: magic, or as Angelina put it, witchcraft.

 

[Angelina]

Anyway, I DO believe 100% that God can and - if He chooses - does heal. But He does it DIRECTLY, meaning (in my opinion) He no longer grants the ability to heal to any living human being. Nor is His healing under ANY circumstances guaranteed to happen.
Meaning anyone who does claim to have such power is either lying or very deceived. And those who have some magic formula for commanding God to heal on demand are practicing exactly that: magic, or as Angelina put it, witchcraft.

I do not know any believer who claims to have the power to heal but have been part of healing ministries where people get healed. Very much like preaching the gospel that leads to salvation, healing ministries bring the testimony of Jesus which raises the level of faith in the hearts of the hearers which enables them to receive healing by faith in Christ through the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God that dwells in all believers is the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead, it is also the same Spirit that hovered over the waters in the beginning when God said "Light Be."

Blessings!

 

[horsecamp]

Charismatic Witchcraft in the Church

A friend of mine was very disturbed one night after joining in praying for a member of his music team who had just applied for a job. Their prayers included binding others from getting the job and enabling her to be successful. This type of prayer smacks of charismatic witchcraft .

any thoughts? :huh:

3 of my thoughts im sorry for them ..
but here goes just being honest
Did she get the job?
and these member DID any ever work for Nancy karagan the Olympic skater .
and if he bought dish net work would this have happened considering that commercial on TV?

 

[Angelina]

1. I don't know but I think that is irrelevant, don't you? :huh:
2. I am from NZ - who is Nancy Karagan?
3. What is dish net work?

 

[Poppin]

Hi Angelina,
I have found these short (20 min), easy interview-style teachings very helpful on this subject.

FALSE SPIRITUAL WARFARE TEACHINGS - audio (transcripts are at site)
http://cicministry.org/radio_series.php?series=spiritualwarfare

 

[Quantrill]

I do not know any believer who claims to have the power to heal but have been part of healing ministries where people get healed. Very much like preaching the gospel that leads to salvation, healing ministries bring the testimony of Jesus which raises the level of faith in the hearts of the hearers which enables them to receive healing by faith in Christ through the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God that dwells in all believers is the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead, it is also the same Spirit that hovered over the waters in the beginning when God said "Light Be."

Blessings!

But, Scripture indicates that some believers have the gift of healing. 1Cor. 12:9

Quantrill

 

[aspen]

The tighter people hang on to their pet attributes about God, the more frightened they actually are about it all being hogwash. They are relying on their own will to hold up God - an atlas complex to the extreme! All in vain, of course - God does not need us to prop Him up or conjure His power...The guy who tried to heal the women in the Berean bookstore through the shirt she purchased is hard hearted because of his own disbelief and he is taking it out on everyone around him. His actions were hostile because they were more concerned with proving his belief in God, at the expense of others rather than healing the women. Crazy because Gods justification and sanctification is supposed to help us see that God loves us so we can love Him and others.....unfortunately, some people simply cannot accept Gods love and choose only to use doctrine as a security blanket for themselves and a weapon towards others. Ironically, the women with cancer was in a far less terminal state as the guy who tried to heal her.

 

[JPPT1974]

Sad that people can't seem to accept that God loves and will save them, only if they believe and accept Him! Withcraft IMHO, is the source of all evil. Work of the devil!

 

[Angelina]

But, Scripture indicates that some believers have the gift of healing. 1Cor. 12:9

Quantrill

I agree "but one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills." 1 Corinthians 12:11

When God calls us, he also leads us through his Spirit and distributes the gifts accordingly.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

Thanks for that Poppin. I Like Bob but my computer does not allow me to listen to his audio messages.

 

[Bro Steve Winter]

When so many organizations have nothing in common with the original Church that Peter started in Acts Chapter 2 using the keys Jesus had given him, it is a wonder that even more bizarre things do not happen as the devil plays with the unregenerate and unlearned at his whim and fancy.

Acts 19:13 ¶Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
Acts 19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
Acts 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? Acts 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

Bro Steve Winter http://biblefolk.com/forum/4

 

[rockytopva]

Welcome Brother Winter!

 

[Bro Steve Winter]

Welcome Brother Winter!

Thank you for your kind words.

Bro. Winter

 

[Thistle]

Well, the bible says that He will do all things that we ask for in faith in Jesus' name. I just accept that as fact without a lot of apologetics about it. When the desciples could not cast out a demon He said, flatly, "you didn't have the faith."

Hey, having faith for some things is hard, I can admit it. I sense the natural word around me and respond to it and have a hard time changing my expectations to look for His power, rather than what would naturally happen without it. Because Christians so often seem to not want to admit that they struggle with faith for some things, they blame God (even if the blame looks more like an apology for Him), saying "well it wasn't His will".

Jesus never refused to heal anyone who asked Him to, and He came for just such a purpose. Human beings sometimes want to be seen as the healer when they get involved in the healing of another and that does not equal faith in Him, it equals ego. I can not even say I would not fall victim to the trap of ego if I were directly involved in Him healing someone, so I prefer to pray for them quietly and alone rather than lay hands on someone.

But He does heal and I have never seen evidence that it is Ever Not His will to heal. If we don't expect that to be the case, that is the definition of a lack of faith. Who has as much faith as they should? Not me. I'm working on it though.

Faith: the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[laid renard]

But, Scripture indicates that some believers have the gift of healing. 1Cor. 12:9

Quantrill

I have read what people have been saying here, and one thing stuck out. It seems that sometimes when someone asks for healing of another, ego comes into play, thereby canceling the desired effect. Maybe they THINK they were operating by faith, but as some posted, it was obviously a spirit of ego that came into play. Hence, no healing. Wrong motive.
I think sometimes when God wishes to heal someone, He looks for someone He CAN use. My goodness, how do I say this without sounding like I am bragging ? I will just say it is not of me, lest I should boast......
For God chose to use me in a few instances. Once through the gift of healing, twice with the gift of tongues, once with the gift of interpretation of tongues, and three times with the gift of the word of knowledge (or it could be word of wisdom, I am not sure for I have not studied the difference--but it's the one where you could not possibly know something unless the Holy Spirit told you so).

But what stuck out for me, was the one similarity all these instances of being used of God had : I never asked for them, or said a prayer before the occurrence for them to be manifested, or even had any idea as to what was about to happen--they just happened.

As when suddenly I found myself speaking a language I do not speak to someone at work, and their countenance abruptly changed from downcast to utter joy, and the time I just found myself starting to rub someone's hand and they quickly withdrew it from me and quickly walked away. I found out later that he had never mentioned it to anyone, but had recently developed arthritis in that hand, and when God touched it through me, he felt an intense heat that was unbearable. But still, the action healed him.

It felt so not of me. That is the main thing I would feel at theses times. To the point that immediately afterward I would just resume what I was doing just before it happened. It was never til later that I would feel the awesomeness of what God had done. And I have only told a handful of people for I feel the specialness of being used of God in these few instances and consider it private. Not wanting to cast pearls before swine.....

But every once in a while the Holy Spirit convicts me to witness of His power, and what He can accomplish through us. That's if our hearts are in the right place.

Blessings to you and yours ~

laid renard

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I have read what people have been saying here, and one thing stuck out. It seems that sometimes when someone asks for healing of another, ego comes into play, thereby canceling the desired effect. Maybe they THINK they were operating by faith, but as some posted, it was obviously a spirit of ego that came into play. Hence, no healing. Wrong motive.
I think sometimes when God wishes to heal someone, He looks for someone He CAN use. My goodness, how do I say this without sounding like I am bragging ? I will just say it is not of me, lest I should boast......
For God chose to use me in a few instances. Once through the gift of healing, twice with the gift of tongues, once with the gift of interpretation of tongues, and three times with the gift of the word of knowledge (or it could be word of wisdom, I am not sure for I have not studied the difference--but it's the one where you could not possibly know something unless the Holy Spirit told you so).

But what stuck out for me, was the one similarity all these instances of being used of God had : I never asked for them, or said a prayer before the occurrence for them to be manifested, or even had any idea as to what was about to happen--they just happened.

As when suddenly I found myself speaking a language I do not speak to someone at work, and their countenance abruptly changed from downcast to utter joy, and the time I just found myself starting to rub someone's hand and they quickly withdrew it from me and quickly walked away. I found out later that he had never mentioned it to anyone, but had recently developed arthritis in that hand, and when God touched it through me, he felt an intense heat that was unbearable. But still, the action healed him.

It felt so not of me. That is the main thing I would feel at theses times. To the point that immediately afterward I would just resume what I was doing just before it happened. It was never til later that I would feel the awesomeness of what God had done. And I have only told a handful of people for I feel the specialness of being used of God in these few instances and consider it private. Not wanting to cast pearls before swine.....

But every once in a while the Holy Spirit convicts me to witness of His power, and what He can accomplish through us. That's if our hearts are in the right place.

Blessings to you and yours ~

laid renard

Laid .... that is one of the greatest posts I have ever read on this topic . I think you have it right.

And I have observed the same ... when there is a miracle healing or something profound done by the holy spirit .... it is unexpected , nobody was particularly asking for it , or looking for it.

It can be rare , but it is the real thing.

 

[laid renard]

Yes, you just know that you know that you know it was Him. :wub:


When ever I am experiencing a low point in my faith through doubt on my part, or am going through a particularly heavy trial, I think on these moments in my life and it helps me to remember His infinite love for us. And I feel better. I wouldn't trade them for the world...

Praise His Name.