Chart of Revelation's 6 stories

[Ronald D Milam]

CONTINUED....................

Yeah, I can read. The Seals, Trumpets, and Vials are all about the 7 Signs Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse, the final Sign being His coming to end this world and gather His saints. The 7th Seal serves as a type of 'selah' (musical pause per the Psalms). So even though Jesus' coming is shown at the end of the 6th Seal, the 7th Seal represents the end also with a moment of silence.

Jesus is shown having returned on the 7th Trumpet, with the same Signs given in Rev.6 on the 6th Seal and Rev.16 on the 7th Vial about the day of His coming. Even within the 6th Vial timing, Jesus is still WARNING HIS CHURCH that He comes "as a thief"!

And that "as a thief" idea ties to the Sign He gave in His Olivet discourse about if the goodman of the house knew in what watch the thief would come, all that in relation to the day of His coming. That "as a thief" also relates to the timing Paul gave in 1 Thessalonians 5 when "sudden destruction" will come upon those who will be saying, "Peace and safety" at the end of the tribulation, and also relates to what Peter showed in 2 Peter 3:10 about God's consuming fire burning man's works off this earth on that "day of the Lord" when Jesus comes.

You have conflated all of this via false notions/understandings. First there are 10-12 signs via Matt. 24:4-31 not 7. The 7th Seal only OPENS the Sealed scroll, this is a simple concept that everyone understood 2000 years ago, but men have polluted the picture with false analogies.

The 7th Trump brings the 3rd Woe just like the 5th Trump brings the 1st Woe and the 6th Trump brings the 2nd Woe, Rev. 8:13 tells us plainly that the Three Trumps yet to sound will bring us the THREE WOES go read it brother. Thus the 7th Trump in Rev. 11 tells us VICTORY is coming, but we see the actual victory via the 7 Vials which are the 3rd Woe, which is why we are never shown what the 3rd Woe is, it is the only plagues left, of course the 7 Vials have to be the 3rd and last Woe. He returns on the 7th Vial, which comes via the 3rd Woe which STARTS via the 7th Trump, so Jesus comes after the 7th Trump, brings forth the 3rd Woe which is all 7 Vials, so he comes at the 7th Vial as Rev. 16:19 shows us.

The 6th Vial has nothing to do with "A thief in the Nights" TIMING, what people do not get in Prophecy is how it is told, in Matt. 24:29 we are told about the Sun and Moon IMMEDIATELY turning dark after these events, and THEN (verse 30) we see Jesus return 3.5 years later, likewise in Zech. 14:1-2 we are told about Jerusalem getting conquered but in verse 3 it says THEN......Jesus will show up to fight for Israel as he lands on Mt. Zion, so that one THEN is 3.5 years after verse 2 also. With the Thief in the Night quote John is not saying Jesus will be coming as a thief in the night, they know Jesus will return after the Beasts 1260 day rule, they are not fools, they can read and count, they know they are close to the end via the boils/sores on them, so what is John doing by adding in or interjecting he will come as a "Thief in the Night" there in Rev. 16 ? He is brin going into the REMEMBRANCE unto them that they were all warned and turned a blind eye to that warning, this happened, of course, BEFORE the Pre Trib Rapture, once you miss the Rapture your fate has been sealed, and even if you make it to heaven by accepting Christ and becoming a Martyr, you are still going to have to go through HELL ON EARTH, thus the 5 brides will also have Weeping and Gnashing of teeth because they missed the Wedding Call. Jesus coming as a THEIF is about the Rapture, and thus they are all left to face the Wrath of God !! John simply throws in an I TOLD YOU SO...........Remember w warned you, here it is, Jesus is coming in the next Vial !! Everyone at the 6th Vial knows Jesus is about to show up, but John is simply sayin, REMEMBER, REMEMBER, REMEMBER ? Yu were warned this would happen, and you ignored it. Think it through, they will know the EXACT DAY Jesus is returning, they will not understand the day he Raptures us the Church which what? Seals their fates.

Now you are off on men's doctrines about Rev.6. I just showed you about the "untimely figs" idea regarding the "great tribulation" timing when false-Messiah will show up playing Christ in Jerusalem. That's on the 1st Part of the 6th Seal. But the 2nd Part of the 6th Seal is about the day of Christ's return, and His cup of wrath poured out upon the wicked.

No, it is simply you not understanding what a Sealed Scroll is !! None of a SEALED MESSAGE can be Read until the Scroll is opened, read my reply above to the OP, I explain this in vivid detail.

So the only reason I can think of that you would deny the following being about the day of Christ's return and His Wrath, is you quit listening to Him in His Word there...

Rev 6:17
17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
KJV

Christ's Book of Revelation is written in the symbolic styles of the Old Testament prophets, so one must pay close attention to the 'events' given, because it can change very quickly, even between verses.

OR..........Maybe you just are not called unto Prophecy and I am, but others are called unto Prophecy, and do not see the things in full I see, because I obey God's voice to not just accept things that seem to contradict God's Holy Word.

Those in seen in the 5th Seal, the Martyrs, have not even died yet, Jesus is FORETELLING their thoughts, after they die, but they only die once the Beast comes to power, that only happens starting via the Rev. 8 Asteroid Impact (when God's Wrath falls). Likewise, those Jesus FORETELLS of are the thoughts of those living in the FUTURE when this FUTURE Wrath Falls, Remember, God/Jesus knows our every thought and they live in ALL TIME at once. Not understanding the Seals are future events hamper you, you also can't understand those men Jesus is referring unto also have to be FUTURE EVENTS !! Take Ezekiel, take Jeremiah, take Isaiah take Joel, any of them telling of future events 2500 or more years later, thus telling us what their hearts will be uttering, or what they will be saying is the exact same thing, you just can not grasp these Seals as a Prophecy, if you did, then you would say, oh yea, Jesus is also just FORETELLING their very thoughts unto us and the very words that they will be uttering in those future events.

This is also why some peoples, seems you do the same thing, think the Seals, Trumps and Vials are a lot of the exact same events, BUT...........If the Seals are Prophecy, then yes, they are the same events FORETOLD, get it now? That is why Seal #6 is just Trump #4 coming to pass. And why Seals 1-5 is just the Anti-Christs 42 month rule foretold, he 1.) Conquers for 42 months 2.) Brings 42 months of War which indeed brings us 3.) 42 Months of Famine which brings 4.) His 42 months of rule that gives the world Sickness/Death. Then finally this Tyrant's Rule brings 42 months of Martyrs unto those who come unto Christ during the 70th week. The Seals just POINT to the coming Wrath, Judgments. Once you understand that you can put all the events together in proper Chronological Order.

Well, yeah, the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials occur in parallel, as they are still only about the 7 Signs Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse, but just expanded with description of 21 events. The devil comes on 666, and Jesus returns to destroy him on 777.

I do not imply that at all, there are only Seven coming Judgment Trumps, which is why Rev. 10 speaks only of Seven Thunders, and when they have Sounded time will be no more [as we now know it]. The number 666 simply tells us the Last Beast is a MAN not a Kingdom.

 

[6 Stories]

Revelation is not in Chronological Order, it has an ORDER but it has to be pieced together by looking specifically for God's Wrath. In short:

Rev. 1 is John seeing Jesus in all his Glory (The things which you HAVE SEEN) I agree with this.

Rev. 2 & 3 is the "Things which Are" or the Church Age. (7 means Divine Completion) These are things that were occurring during the 1st century. However, churches are going through similar circumstances today.

Revelation 4:1 is the Rapture, one can understand the "Last Trump" by understanding the 7 Feasts and thus understand that Jesus sounding as a Trump in Rev. 4:1 means he's ending the Harvest/Church Age. You see Jesus fulfilled 1.) Passover (his blood covers our sin) 2.) Unleavened Bread (he knew no sin) 3.) First-fruits (He rose from the grave) 4.) He is now Fulfilling the Feast of weeks/Summer Harvest or Church Age where we his body are harvesting souls for our High Priest Jesus/God. The 5.) Feast of Trumps always ended the Harvest, this happened via a New Year, thus a New Moon, since Israel were on God time (Lunar time) they never knew the exact day nor hour the New Moon would come in (that is what Jesus' saying really means), thus they sent up two men to spy out the New Moon and when it came in they started blowing the Trumps/Shofar in 9 sets of 11 or 99 times, then on the 100th or LAST TRUMP, the Summer Harvest Ended (THINK Church Age). That is what not knowing the Day nor Hour really means, but they knew THE SEASON, and so can we, and it is like in the Fall of 2025. But why? If Rev 4:1 is the rapture, why is John the only one of his kind there? How could the rapture occur before Jesus has retrieved the glory he left when he became a man. (He doesn't have the scroll until after the rapture) God the Father has the trumpet voice. Jesus has the voice of many waters. See Rev 1:15 God the Father is speaking in Rev 1:8,11. The trumpet of God in 1 Thes 4:16 is the voice of God the Father at the time of the rapture. The last trumpet in 1 Cor 15:52 is a rapture that will occur after the 1000 year reign of Christ. The trumpet and the last trumpet occur during the time of the first and second resurrections.

Because Apophis is going to hit on April 13, 2029, take off or subtract 3.5 years and we get a Fall of 2025 Rapture, we can not know the exact day nor hour, of course, but we can know THE SEASON, Jesus tells us that in the parable of the fig tree. So, Jesus fulfills the Feast of Trumps by rapturing us his Bride. Then what two Feasts are left? The 6.) Feast of Atonement and who must atone before Daniel's 70th week prophecy can come to pass? Israel, and we see that 1/3 repent (Zechariah 13:8-9), just before the DOTL (Zechariah 14:1-2) Arrives . Then what happens? They DWELL with God or Jesus for 1000 years and thus the 7.) Feast of Tabernacles actually means to DWELL with God, so Jesus fulfills all 7 Feasts. They were known as Holy Convocations (Dress Rehearsals). So, Israel were acting out all future history via the 7 Feasts. From Jesus death, to his resurrection, to him having no sin, to him Harvesting souls during the Gentile Church Age, to him Rapturing his Bride and ending the Harvest via the LAST TRUMP, to his blood Atoning for Israel's sin, to him dwelling with the Jews for 1000 years during the Kingdom Age. (SOME TIMES I GET OFF-TRACKED, Smile, the Holy Spirit leads...back your overall question)

Rev. 4 and 5 is just Jesus in Heaven with the Pre Trib Raptured Church thus everything that is shown from here on out will be "The HEREAFTER" or after the Church Age and during the 70th week. Have you compared HEREAFTER with Dan 2:29,45? The prophecy begins during a time that Daniel was familiar with because he was living the dream. This provided context for the rest of the dream which was future. In the same way, John sees heaven at the moment Jesus ascended into heaven.

Rev. 6 is Jesus opening the Seals and Prophesying about God's soon to come Wrath.

Rev. 7 is the Jews fleeing Judea at the AoD just before God's Wrath falls.

God's Wrath Falls
Rev. 8, 9 and 16 (15&16) is God's Wrath, all the Wrath comes out of the 7 Trumps, the last three Trumps are the Three Woes so says Rev. 8:13. Thus Woes 1 and 2 are seen in Rev. 9 and Rev. 16 brings us the 3rd Woe which is ALL SEVEN VIALS. But they come forth from the 7th Trump. In Rev. 11 we see the 2nd Woe vaguely mentioned, but we get the DETAILS in Rev. 9 right? Likewise we get a vague mention of Woe #3 in Rev. 11 (which comes via the 7th Trump) but we get the DETAILS in Rev. 16. We get the mention in Rev. 11 because the Two-witnesses pray down all of the Plagues just like Moses foretold all of Egypt's Plagues. But Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation Chapter, as are Rev. 10, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and 19, they all happen during Rev. 8, 9 and 16, God's Judgment Chapters. I agree that 15&16 is a picture of God's wrath because that is what is said. I don't find similar statements for Rev 8, 9. Obviously you do see the repetition in the Revelation. I think if you looked more closely at that last plague, we could agree on more.

Rev. 12, 13, 17 and 18 cover 42 months starting with the Rev. 8 Asteroid Impact that brings God's Wrath.

Rev. 14 is The Harvest Chapter and covers the 7 full years like Rev. 19 does. Havest is a short season that comes every year. Where has there ever been a harvest that lasted for 7 full years?

Rev. 11 (7th Trump and final victory). Rev. 14:17-20 the Wicked placed in the Wine-press of God's wrath. Rev. 16:19 the 7th Vial/wine-press in which Babylon the Great is placed in and finally Rev. 19, are ALL FOUR the exact same event !! Only Rev. 16:19 is the original Chronological Order of God's Wrath, the other four are stories about other events that happen at the exact same time, one via the Two-witnesses 1260 day ministry chapter in Revelation 11, one is the Harvest Chapter in Rev. 14 where we see the Wicked get harvested, and finally in Rev. 19 we see Armageddon via the Marriage Supper. You have looked at that last plague!

Rev. 11 POINTS to the last Plagues that the Two-witnesses have prayed down(3rd Woe/7 Vials), but they die before the 7 Vials are poured out, but we are told these Vials/3rd Woe will bring VICTORY, and we get the details in Rev. 16. Rev. 14 points to the Harvest of the Wicked. Rev. 19 is the Marriage of the church/bride to the Lamb and our return to earth with Jesus where the Marriage Supper is shown to be our victory over the Wicked where we are shown as birds/fouls getting revenge on the Kings of the earth, the Beast and all of their armies, we are shown as fowls of the air, its just prose however. THE REAL EVENT is seen in Rev. 16:19, this is why people get confused. Yes, the 7th VIAL ends it all, but we get the same story told in four different ways.

Rev. 8 starts God's Wrath, Rev. 9 and 16 finishes it. Revelation 11, 12, 13, 17, and 18 cover the exact same 42 months save Revelation 11 which starts 1335 days before the 2nd Coming because the 1335 blessing is the Two-witnesses who show up 1335 days BEFORE ALL THEE WONDERS END, at the Second Coming. Rev. 12 is the Dragon chasing the Woman/Israel for.......42 months. Rev. 13 is the Beast ruling for.......42 months. Rev. 17 is the Harlot (ALL False Religion) being killed of by the 10 kings who rule with the Beast for how long? 42 months. And Rev. 18 is Babylon (Whole World) being judged and that takes how long? 42 months. No wrath of God in 8 or 9. The devil has great wrath at 9. Compare time of woe on earth, 8:13 with 12:12. When Satan's 42 months of wrath has ended, God's wrath begins.
The Vials do indeed END God's Wrath, but we have to understand all of the timelines and the Chronological Order of the book of Revelation. Hence, the chart!

 

[6 Stories]

I will show you tomorrow why Rev. 6 and Matt. 24 are not related like people think. Little bit sad still, my 15 year old dog Bama just passed away from cancer last Thursday, I find myself not being able to think except for short periods of time. God Bless

Sorry to hear about your dog. God bless you! I am familiar with this type of pain.

 

[WPM]

View attachment 30580

Rev 20 is the 7th parallel. It is currently ongoing.

 

[6 Stories]

Rev 20 is the 7th parallel. It is currently ongoing.

In my opinion, Rev 20 chronologically follows the 6 stories. It could be considered a 7th story and Rev 21-22 would then be an 8th story, a new Genesis. What makes you think Satan has been bound?

 

[WPM]

In my opinion, Rev 20 chronologically follows the 6 stories. It could be considered a 7th story and Rev 21-22 would then be an 8th story, a new Genesis. What makes you think Satan has been bound?

I do not agree. Rev 20 takes us back to the 1st resurrection and finishes at the second coming and the general resurrection/judgment.

 

[Davy]

No they do not parallel Matt. 24, the Seals happen during the 70th week (THE BABY) Matt. 24 is the Birth Pangs, not the BABY (70th week). The Seals are Jesus in Heaven, with the Pre Trib Raptured Church, opening the Seals during the HEREAFTER 70th week, which come after the Church Age. These are basic concepts polluted by men's ideas/traditions. Its simple stuff really tbh, the things you HAVE SEEN (Jesus in all his Glory, the things WHICH ARE (which was the Church Age which = the 7 Churches or Divine Completion) and the things that will be HEREAFTETR (the 70th week and God's Divine Judgments).

The Seals of Revelation 6 most certainly DO... parallel the 7 Signs Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse. If you haven't understood that yet, it simply means you really do NOT understand what those Seals and 7 Signs are about. The order in Rev.6 follows the order of the 7 Signs Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse...

1st Sign: Matthew 24:4 - don't let any man deceive you. That is the subject of the 1st Seal, which is about a FALSE rider coming on a white horse like in the way Jesus comes on a white horse in Rev.19. The difference though, is that 1st Seal rider has a "bow" of cheap fabric and wears a single crown, which Jesus comes with a sword and wearing many crowns.

2nd Sign: Matthew 24:6 - you will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but don't be troubled for the end is not yet. That parallels the 2nd Seal which is about a red war horse taking peace off the earth.

3rd Sign: Matthew 24:7 - nation against nation, FAMINES, earthquakes, etc. That is about the 3rd Seal regarding a measure of wheat for a penny (high cost in John's day), about the balances of world commerce and world inflation causing reduction of economies, and world hunger.

That should... be well enough to get one started in comparing those Seals with the 7 Signs of Christ's Olivet discourse. The 7th final Sign Jesus gave in Matthew 24 was that of His future coming after the tribulation to gather His saints and take rule on earth. That is paralleled in the latter part of the 6th Seal with it being the time of the Wrath of The Lamb, which is pointing to Christ's future return.

 

[Davy]

CONTINUED....................


You have conflated al of this via false notions/understandings. First there are 10-12 signs via Matt. 24:4-31 not 7. The 7th Seal only OPENS the Sealed scroll, this is a simple concept that everyone understood 2000 years ago, but men have polluted the picture with false analogies.

The 'conflation' is your's, because there are ONLY 7 Signs of the end Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse, and they directly parallel the Seals of Rev.6, as I already revealed the first 3 Signs in my previous post.

That last 7th Sign Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse was that of His future coming on the "day of the Lord" with event links to that day, and the gathering of His saints, that per Matthew 24:29-31.

After verse 31, Jesus is simply talking more about the day of His coming He revealed as the 7th Sign back in those Matthew 24:29-31 verses. The parable of the fig tree is given as a symbol to represent ALL 7 Signs He had given previously, when He said all "these things" must come to pass in the last generation. So that's not a new Sign, it's simply His giving a time reference for all the Signs meant for the very end of this world just prior to His coming.

 

[David in NJ]

All Ye pre-fibbers need to go back to OT Prophecy School = Revelation 10:7

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be fulfilled,
just as He proclaimed to His servants the prophets.”

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Sorry to hear about your dog. God bless you! I am familiar with this type of pain.

In order to be able to reply to your reply above "in red" in between my answers/replies, I am going to have to paste and the do some fancy footwork, this makes it a lot harder to reply unto. I will place your Replies IN BOLD AND UNDERLINE THEM ALL.
-------------------

Revelation is not in Chronological Order, it has an ORDER but it has to be pieced together by looking specifically for God's Wrath. In short:

Rev. 1 is John seeing Jesus in all his Glory (The things which you HAVE SEEN) I agree with this.

Rev. 2 & 3 is the "Things which Are" or the Church Age. (7 means Divine Completion) These are things that were occurring during the 1st century. However, churches are going through similar circumstances today.

Which means the Church Age is and will be ONGOING until the Pre Trib Rapture. Once Rev. 4:1 happens Jesus blows the Last Trump which ends the "Church Age Harvest". Everything after that is the HEREAFTER.
--------

Revelation 4:1 is the Rapture, one can understand the "Last Trump" by understanding the 7 Feasts and thus understand that Jesus sounding as a Trump in Rev. 4:1 means he's ending the Harvest/Church Age. You see Jesus fulfilled 1.) Passover (his blood covers our sin) 2.) Unleavened Bread (he knew no sin) 3.) First-fruits (He rose from the grave) 4.) He is now Fulfilling the Feast of weeks/Summer Harvest or Church Age where we his body are harvesting souls for our High Priest Jesus/God. The 5.) Feast of Trumps always ended the Harvest, this happened via a New Year, thus a New Moon, since Israel were on God time (Lunar time) they never knew the exact day nor hour the New Moon would come in (that is what Jesus' saying really means), thus they sent up two men to spy out the New Moon and when it came in they started blowing the Trumps/Shofar in 9 sets of 11 or 99 times, then on the 100th or LAST TRUMP, the Summer Harvest Ended (THINK Church Age). That is what not knowing the Day nor Hour really means, but they knew THE SEASON, and so can we, and it is like in the Fall of 2025. But why? If Rev 4:1 is the rapture, why is John the only one of his kind there? How could the rapture occur before Jesus has retrieved the glory he left when he became a man. (He doesn't have the scroll until after the rapture) God the Father has the trumpet voice. Jesus has the voice of many waters. See Rev 1:15 God the Father is speaking in Rev 1:8,11. The trumpet of God in 1 Thes 4:16 is the voice of God the Father at the time of the rapture. The last trumpet in 1 Cor 15:52 is a rapture that will occur after the 1000 year reign of Christ. The trumpet and the last trumpet occur during the time of the first and second resurrections.

John IS NOT the only one (human being) there, of course we see him get Raptured alone because we see his coming Rapture, Jess says come up here. Then we get the DETAILS that show us that those seen in Heaven are the Raptured Church. We get 3 clues in Rev. 4:4 that show us STATEMENTS by Jesus in Rev. chapters 2 & 3 that mandate those seen in Rev. 4:4 can be nothing but the Raptured Church, this is why we have to study Revelation veery hard, its a book of symbolism, codes and metaphors. Jesus told his disciples he spoke unto them in parables so they would understand but the world hearing and seeing wouldn't understand, likewise, God doesn't want the world to understand the Book of Revelations (BoR), but we can via our understanding of the scriptures/old testament. The BoR has 404 verses and 289 of them have old testament verbiage in them, like the Rev. 12 Woman being solved by the Gen. 37:9 verse. So, let me show you these Rev. 4:4 passages that show they are the Raptured Church 100 %.

Rev. 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw (1)four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in (2)white raiment; and they had on their heads (3)crowns of gold.

Now, lets allow the scriptures in Rev. chapters 2 & 3 (Church Age time period) to solve this riddle for us.

(3) Rev. 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days(means the COMPLETE Church Age): be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

(2) Rev. 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

(1) Rev. 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. {{{ This ends the Church Age, the very next verse shows Jesus blowing the LAST TRUMP that ends the Harvest. NOTICE, how those people in Rev. 4:4 have ALL THE THINGS PROMISED unto those who OVERCOME and who are FAITHFUL UNTO DEATH during the Church Age period in Rev. 2 & 3 !! This is no coincidence, this is God speak, this is encoded lingo. This is the Pre Trib Raptured Church and can be no one else. Rev. 5 proves this also.

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Now, do Angels nee REDEEMING ? Of course not, these are Human Beings who have been redeemed and thus see Jesus as Worthy to open the Seals because he shed his blood for them alone, and they are from, EVERY, Nation, Kindred, People and Tongue, meaning they are humans from earth. Then verse 10 shows us why the 24 Elders lingo is used (as does Rev. 1:6), we are indeed made Kings and Priests unto God, and in 1 Chronicles 24 we see the 24 Orders of the Priesthood, thus since we are all priests unto God we are shown as the 24 Elders in Rev. 4:4. See the codes and symbolism now? Rev. 4:4 is the Raptured Church in Heaven BEGORE the Seals are ever opened. No one goes to Heaven until the Rapture, those who think that happens only have to read 1 Cor. 15, it says the Dead in Christ ARISES at the same time as those who are alive and remain on earth, it actually says a mili-second before, but in essence that's the SAME TIME.

So, that is settled, John IS NOT the only human there, we are all there as shown in Rev. 4:4 and Rev. 5:9-10.

As I explained in full the LAST TRUMP ends the Church Age Harvest and Jesus FULFILLS every Feast. This is not in question, why is it you understand he fulfilled the 1.) Passover 2.) Unleavened Bread 3.) First-fruits and SHOULD UNDERSTAND that the 4.) Gentile Church Age is NOW being fulfilled by Jesus (Feast of weeks/Summer Harvest) as our High Priest as we Harvest souls during the Church Age but CAN NOT SEEM TO GRASP or admit that Jesus must also fulfill the 5.) Feast of Trumps and thus the Rev. 4:1 picture John paints is Jesus SOUNDING as a Trump when he Raptured the Church !! Pstt, Rev. 14 is the Harvest Chapter, look at verse 14 in a FLASHBACK Jesus is shown from UPON A CLOUD Harvesting his Bride. He calls us up to him for the wedding which takes place in Heaven (his Fathers mansion) as he receives us unto himself. In a Jewish wedding how many days did the groom and bride stay in the fathers house before they came out for the Marriage Supper? 7 days !! How long is the 70th week? 7 Years !! The Marriage Supper as seen in Rev. 19 is Armageddon, we are the Fowls of Heaven given victory over our evil enemies once and for all. We feast on the wicked, metaphorically speaking. Then after that Israel repent via the 6.) Feast of Atonement and live with Jesus for 1000 years via the 7.) Feast of Tabernacles, the word tabernacle means to DWELL with God and Jesus is God, of course, God the Redeemer/Son. Rev. 4:1 says Jesus sounds as a TRUMP. Jesus blows the LAST TRUMP that ends the Harvest just like he fulfilled the Passover, Unleavened Bread, First-fruits and is now fulfilling the Harvest, why can't people understand ONLY Jesus can fulfill all 7 Feasts and the Feast of Trumps ENDS the Church Age Harvest. Leave you men's traditions behind brother, I did 7 years ago after 30 years of them tagging along with me everywhere I went. You see, it all fits, we just have to come to terms with ADMITTING we were wrong. It is OK to be wrong, that just means Jesus/God is teaching us His truths. Amen. In my prayer unto Gid about 7 or 8 years ago when I asked God why the Church had so many interpretations of everything when in the End Times all was supposed to be revealed unto us with a fresh outpouring of the Holy Spirit the Lord was like "Ron, you guys already know it all". Thus I understood I had to question everything, ask God for every answer and wrestle with Him until He gave me the answers. It works every time, God wants us to be persistent. If we keep on seeking and praying He always gives us the answers to these end time understandings BECAUSE we are in the end times and on a need to know basis !!

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Sorry to hear about your dog. God bless you! I am familiar with this type of pain.

CONTINUED IN THE SAME MANNER ABOVE..............

Because Apophis is going to hit on April 13, 2029, take off or subtract 3.5 years and we get a Fall of 2025 Rapture, we can not know the exact day nor hour, of course, but we can know THE SEASON, Jesus tells us that in the parable of the fig tree. So, Jesus fulfills the Feast of Trumps by rapturing us his Bride. Then what two Feasts are left? The 6.) Feast of Atonement and who must atone before Daniel's 70th week prophecy can come to pass? Israel, and we see that 1/3 repent (Zechariah 13:8-9), just before the DOTL (Zechariah 14:1-2) Arrives . Then what happens? They DWELL with God or Jesus for 1000 years and thus the 7.) Feast of Tabernacles actually means to DWELL with God, so Jesus fulfills all 7 Feasts. They were known as Holy Convocations (Dress Rehearsals). So, Israel were acting out all future history via the 7 Feasts. From Jesus death, to his resurrection, to him having no sin, to him Harvesting souls during the Gentile Church Age, to him Rapturing his Bride and ending the Harvest via the LAST TRUMP, to his blood Atoning for Israel's sin, to him dwelling with the Jews for 1000 years during the Kingdom Age. (SOME TIMES I GET OFF-TRACKED, Smile, the Holy Spirit leads...back your overall question)

Rev. 4 and 5 is just Jesus in Heaven with the Pre Trib Raptured Church thus everything that is shown from here on out will be "The HEREAFTER" or after the Church Age and during the 70th week. Have you compared HEREAFTER with Dan 2:29,45? The prophecy begins during a time that Daniel was familiar with because he was living the dream. This provided context for the rest of the dream which was future. In the same way, John sees heaven at the moment Jesus ascended into heaven.

I see you skipped past the 7 Feasts, it probably showed you why the Church Age has to end via Jesus blowing the Feast of Trumps thus you skipped it. Just remember, skipping past God's facts doesn't let us win a debate on such, its still there, the 7 Feasts must all be fulfilled by Jesus, you know this down deep.

MOVING ON.... The Hereafter starts via Dan. 11:36-45, I have done an Exegesis on Daniel 11 where I show whom every king AND every player mentioned is, Cleopatra is there, Onias III is the High Priest of verse 22 or 23, there is a Roman Senator who drew a circle around Antiochus and dared him to leave the circle before giving him his answer about of he was going to invade Egypt, because if he had the Roman's were going to be at War with him, of course he didn't. Verse 30-32 is about the AoD that Antiochus put forth, he sacrificed a pig in God's temple, unto Zeus his God, he was welcomed into the temple by Jason (real name Yeshua) who bribed Antiochus to be named the High Priest having Onias III his Pious High Priest brother killed. Thus Jason then MANDATED that all Jews become Hellenized, which led to the Maccabean Revolt. So, in Rev. 12 where the Angel asks the question in verse 6 about when ALL THESE WONDERS would end, he is speaking about Dan. 11:36-45. The War as seen in verses 40-43 is the Anti-Christ conquering Israel and THE MANY (whole Mediterranean Sea Region), this Lebanon to all of North Africa gets conquered. The E.U. currently has AGREEMENTS wit Israel and about 10 other nations, see the map below, it is called the European Neighborhood Policy (ENP).



NOTICE: Like Rome circa 117 AD it controls every square inch of the Mediterranean Coastline.




So, when the E.U. President/Anti-Christ/Little Horn goes forth Conquering in Dan. 11:40-43 he conquers the whole region save for Edom, Ammon and Moab, guess where that is at !! That is right, central and southern Jordan's mountain region or the Petra/Bozrah area where God protects the Jews who repent.

So, in essence, only Dan. 11:36-45 is the HEREAFTER. None of the rest of Daniel 11 is.
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God's Wrath Falls
Rev. 8, 9 and 16 (15&16) is God's Wrath, all the Wrath comes out of the 7 Trumps, the last three Trumps are the Three Woes so says Rev. 8:13. Thus Woes 1 and 2 are seen in Rev. 9 and Rev. 16 brings us the 3rd Woe which is ALL SEVEN VIALS. But they come forth from the 7th Trump. In Rev. 11 we see the 2nd Woe vaguely mentioned, but we get the DETAILS in Rev. 9 right? Likewise we get a vague mention of Woe #3 in Rev. 11 (which comes via the 7th Trump) but we get the DETAILS in Rev. 16. We get the mention in Rev. 11 because the Two-witnesses pray down all of the Plagues just like Moses foretold all of Egypt's Plagues. But Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation Chapter, as are Rev. 10, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and 19, they all happen during Rev. 8, 9 and 16, God's Judgment Chapters. I agree that 15&16 is a picture of God's wrath because that is what is said. I don't find similar statements for Rev 8, 9. Obviously you do see the repetition in the Revelation. I think if you looked more closely at that last plague, we could agree on more.

As I stated, the Seals are PROPHETIC UTTERANCES about the coming 42 months of God's Wrath and Seal number 6 shows us what this Asteroid Impact of Rev. 8 brings AND we see the peoples very thoughts, because God/Jesus gives us that insight in a key passage or in a few verses.

Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; (Rev. 8 Asteroid Impact results)

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So, when we see the Sun and Moon go dark and blood red, that is the Wrath of God/Lamb, and that happens via the Rev. 8 Trumpet Judgments.

Rev. 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

{{{ Of course this is God's Wrath, as spoken of coming soon in the Rev. 6 Seals}}}

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

So, the First Four Trumps and the Last Three Trumps bring ALL of God's Wrath, the THREE WOES comes from the last three Trumps yet to sound !! So, the Rev. 9 Woes 1 and 2 are Trumps 5 and 6 and the Rev. 16 Vials are Woe #3 and thus come forth from Trump #7 !! Thus the Seven Thunders in Rev. 10 can now be understood ALL of God's Wrath emits from 7 Trumpets (7 = Divine Completion). Thus when the Seven Thunders Sound time will be no more [as er now know it]. Rev. 8:13 is the key, NOTHING COMES that does not come from the 7 Trumpet Judgments. The Seals are only Prophetic in nature as Jesus UNBINDS the Judgment Scroll.




CONTINUED...............

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Sorry to hear about your dog. God bless you! I am familiar with this type of pain.

CONTINUED IN TE SAME MANNER AS ABOVE (this makes it MUCH HARDER to reply)

Rev. 12, 13, 17 and 18 cover 42 months starting with the Rev. 8 Asteroid Impact that brings God's Wrath.

Rev. 14 is The Harvest Chapter and covers the 7 full years like Rev. 19 does. Havest is a short season that comes every year. Where has there ever been a harvest that lasted for 7 full years?

These are Three Harvests, two happen at the same time because the Wicked Tares grew alongside the Wheat which is Israel. The Church is the Barley Harvest, which always comes in first, AND it does not need to be CRUSHED before it can be Sifted & Harvested like Wheat does. The Greeks had a machine called the TRIBULUM, and it crushed the wheat so it could be sifted and thus harvested, do you know where the English word Tribulation comes from? That is right, from the tribulum machine. In Rev. 14 God is showing us Three Harvests by using the Three Festival Celebrations Israel had. The Barley Harvest which always came in first and did not need crushing, thus it was cheaper and poorer people could afford it, the Wheat Harvest which represents Israel just as Jesus foretold in the parable of the Wheat &/ Tares. Then there is the Grape Harvest where they had to read the grapes via a great Wine-press. Throughout the bible God and Jesus paints pictures for us, in Rev. 14 we see the Three Harvests, we see the 144,000 (3.5-5 million Jews) awaiting Jesus on Mt. Zion, however we know thus is just prose, showing who will rule alongside Jesus in Jerusalem, the Jews are in hiding in the Patra/Bozrah area, not awaiting his return on Mt. Zion, BUT they will rule from Jerusalem with Jesus as he Harvests the Wheat into his Fathers barn so to speak. Then we can go to Rev. 14:17-20 to see the Harvest of the Wicked Grapes (tares) who grew all the way to the end amongst the Wheat in this world. They are given God's Wrath via the Wine-press, and all life is squeezed out of them, the wine is shown here as an allegory of blood arising to the horse bridles, and thus they are Harvested, just like the tares were, where the tares were bundled together (killed) and they will await final judgment at the Second Resurrection of the Wicked. An Angel sticks in the sickle and harvests these grapes !!

BUT NOTICE, Jesus himself, from upon a CLOUD Harvests/Reaps the whole world in verse 14, Rev. 14 shows an END TIME Second Coming Harvest of the Jews (144,000) and the Wicked Grapes (evil men) so the only way to show the Pre Trib Rapture is with a FLASHBACK to the actual event right? And we understand Movie flashbacks, but some people want to suggest, not Gid can't show a flashback (LOL). Of course God can and does show us the Pre Trib Rapture in verse 14. Rev. 14 is thus the Harvest Chapter.

Rev. 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man(Jesus), having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

The ABOVE VERSES show the Pre Trib Rapture by Jesus from upon a CLOUD, he calls us up unto him so he can Marry his Bride. Thus this CHAPTER covers the full 7 years, each Harvest comes however its own season, no one said the Pre Trib Rapture Harvest lasted 7 years. We are Raptured pre trib, Israel (those Jews who repent in Zech. 13:8-9) have to go through the 70th week and are Harvested 7 years later in another Harvest. The Wicked are harvested at the exact same time, even 2/3 of the Jews who refused to repent, whom Zech. 13:8-9 says will be cut-off or die.
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Rev. 11 (7th Trump and final victory). Rev. 14:17-20 the Wicked placed in the Wine-press of God's wrath. Rev. 16:19 the 7th Vial/wine-press in which Babylon the Great is placed in and finally Rev. 19, are ALL FOUR the exact same event !! Only Rev. 16:19 is the original Chronological Order of God's Wrath, the other four are stories about other events that happen at the exact same time, one via the Two-witnesses 1260 day ministry chapter in Revelation 11, one is the Harvest Chapter in Rev. 14 where we see the Wicked get harvested, and finally in Rev. 19 we see Armageddon via the Marriage Supper. You have looked at that last plague!


Well, I understand what the Lat Plagues are, most don't tbh. The Last 7 Vials (Plagues) happen when the 7th Trump Sounds, they emit or COME FORTH via the 7th Trump. Rev. 8:13 tells us the Three Woes are brought forth by the sounding of these last three trumps, so Woe #1 is the 5th Trump, Woe #2 is the 6th Trump and thus Woe #3 has to be the 7th Trump, and thus the 7 Vials all emit forth from 7th Trump, thus in the 7 Trumps lies ALL of God's Wrath, even though the 7 Vials finish this off.

Allow me a demonstration, lets say the USA has this SUPER GUN, it has bullets that can destroy buildings and cities and nations. The USA however only has 7 Bullets in total !!

The first four bullets destroy a few key buildings etc. etc. They are huge bullets.

Then Bullet number 5 destroyed a city.

Then bullet number 6 destroyed another huge city.

Finally bullet number 7 is shot and as it explode 7 more bullets come forth out of that ONE BULLET and each bullet goes forth and in full they destroy the whole nation. THE POINT HERE is to show you that ALL JUDGMENNTS came forth from the 7 original Bullets !! The 7 Vials ONLY comes forth from the 7th Trumpet Judgment, which brings the 3rd Woe as Rev. 8:13 tells us, and thus all of God's Wrath emits from the 7 Trumps. Somehow you are missing that, again, read Rev. 8:13 the LAST THREE trumpets yet to sound gives us the Three Woes, the 1st Woe and 2nd Woe are shown in Rev. 9 the 3rd Woe is shown in Rev. 16.
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Rev. 8 starts God's Wrath, Rev. 9 and 16 finishes it. Revelation 11, 12, 13, 17, and 18 cover the exact same 42 months save Revelation 11 which starts 1335 days before the 2nd Coming because the 1335 blessing is the Two-witnesses who show up 1335 days BEFORE ALL THEE WONDERS END, at the Second Coming. Rev. 12 is the Dragon chasing the Woman/Israel for.......42 months. Rev. 13 is the Beast ruling for.......42 months. Rev. 17 is the Harlot (ALL False Religion) being killed of by the 10 kings who rule with the Beast for how long? 42 months. And Rev. 18 is Babylon (Whole World) being judged and that takes how long? 42 months. No wrath of God in 8 or 9. The devil has great wrath at 9. Compare time of woe on earth, 8:13 with 12:12. When Satan's 42 months of wrath has ended, God's wrath begins.

The Woes are not Satan's Wrath, the Demons in Woe #1 are only allowed to hurt these men, not kill them, IMHO, this is what God warned us of, if we are on earth, and we are not saved, Demons will torture those types into taking the Mark of the Beast. Those who are saved will be killed as Martyrs. Woe #2 is 200 million Angelic Beings delivering God's Plagues, read verse 21, Demon's, nor human Chinese Armies (LOL) deliver God's Plagues for him, Angels are these 200 million, which really just means the whole hosts of Heaven. They are not BOUND in the River Euphrates, they are BOUND to a Day, a Month, a Year and an Hour, this is why some people confuse these as Demons, they are indeed Angelic Beings who have an APPOINTMENT in tat region to wipe out a bunch of wicked people who have taken the Mark of the Beast, remember, Satan can not cast out Satan. These are Angels delivering God's Wrath !! SEE BELOW:

Rev. 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Satan nor his Demons deliver Plagues for God brother. These are Angels and these are God's Wrath, in Woe #1 we see the Demons hurting people, well who cast them out of Heaven and opened up the Bottomless Pit? God, of course, he let the most vile Demons out of the pit as a Judgment unto Wicked Mankind. There is a reason they were locked up, they were going with women, and giant babies were born. Now you can imagine the vile things they will do after being in the pit for nigh 4000 years.

God's Wrath lasts 42 months, Satan is cast down as God's Wrath begins, the Anti-Christ is only allowed to go forth once God's Wrath begins, thus he rules for 42 months. Most people just do not understand the TIMELINES, they get all discombobulated, mixed up and confused.
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The Vials do indeed END God's Wrath, but we have to understand all of the timelines and the Chronological Order of the book of Revelation. Hence, the chart!

Your charts are not correct my friend. God Bless. Think it through.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

The Seals of Revelation 6 most certainly DO... parallel the 7 Signs Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse. If you haven't understood that yet, it simply means you really do NOT understand what those Seals and 7 Signs are about. The order in Rev.6 follows the order of the 7 Signs Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse...

1st Sign: Matthew 24:4 - don't let any man deceive you. That is the subject of the 1st Seal, which is about a FALSE rider coming on a white horse like in the way Jesus comes on a white horse in Rev.19. The difference though, is that 1st Seal rider has a "bow" of cheap fabric and wears a single crown, which Jesus comes with a sword and wearing many crowns.

Also unto 6 Stories

OK, lets walk ourselves through this brother, when you take the time to engage you can be and are rather intelligent, the whimsical replies do not cut it, these are far too important things to just brush off with belated replies. I love challenges, that means I can teach why things are not always as they seem. Especially things written 2000 some odd years ago, I always (NOW anyway) try to wrap my brain around the original intended message, then proceed from there, others tend to just jump on the message and they do not think who the original message was intended to, and thus what does it mean. This is why men, for a while have conflated Matt. 24:4-14 with the 70th week, which can not be. Now slow down and think it through.

Who is Jesus speaking unto in Matt. 24? Well, in verses 4-14 it is obvious once we decipher it that it is a survival guide intended for his Disciples, then in verses 15-31 it is obvious he changes his message unto the end time Jews. (Jesus only ministered unto the Lost Sheep of Israel)

Matt. 24:4 IS NOT about the Anti-Christ, this is the biggest misnomer in the bible, it is about the 70 AD Roman army destroying Jerusalem and the temple of God, REMEMBER that was the very first sign, I will show you below. Why is this important for his Disciples to understand? (THINK) Because if the Disciples had come rushing back to Jerusalem thinking Jesus has shown up to defeat the Fourth Beast as Daniel says he will do (kinda...its really the 5th Beast A.C. but they had no clue) then they would have all died in like 67-70 AD and the Church no doubt would have rushed back with them to fight for their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ so Jesus had to show them that this TEMPLE DESTRUCTION was not the end times, thus he laid out why this was not his second coming, which would only by LATER ON (by and by). The problem with people is they see scriptures like John 5:43 and they get its TIMING all wrong. That verse is SPECIFICALLY about the Pharisees of Jesus' time, SEE BELOW: Jesus is speaking unto the Pharisees, men today think John 5:43 is about the End Time Anti-Christ, it is not, it is about the Pharisees putting forth "Messianic Figures" to try and save them from the Roman Fourth Beast, and this can be proven via history, go watch the invasion of Jerusalem in 70 AD on Youtube, they even name a few of the men that the Pharisees & Scribes put forth as Political Saviors. Understanding all that SEE BELOW: Jesus is speaking about the Pharisees, not an End Time Anti-Christ.

John 5:38 And ye(Pharisees) have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not(God sent Jesus that is his point). 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me(Jesus).

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41 I receive not honour from men. 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye(Pharisees of Jesus' time) receive me not: if another shall come in his own name(in 70 A.D.), him ye will receive.

So, this is ALL ABOUT the 70 A.D. Events, not an End Time Anti-Christ !! Jesus is speaking SPECIFICALLY unto and about the Pharisees/Scribes of his day, they rejected Jesus whom the Father had sent and then in 70 A.D. the ACCEPTED another [man] who came in his own name as the Messiah, whom they saw as a political figure, which was Judas' crime, he wanted Jesus to fight the Romans as a political leader. He thought by betraying Jesus it would force him to be that political savior/leader, but of course he was wrong. This type thinking above is why you and others go down a WRONG PATH, your thinking that this is about the End Times, when it is not, why can't you guys understand Birth Pangs are only there while the baby is being birthed !! They are not present after the Birth, those things shown (only in passing, I will explain why he showed them later) like Earthquakes, Famines, Wars etc. etc. were the Birth Pangs that led to THE BABY (70th week) thus they can not be a part of the 70th week because once the baby is birthed there can be NO BIRTH PANGS anymore. Now, lets look at Matt. 24:4-6 and see why it is ONLY about the 70 AD events.

Matt. 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, (1)See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, (1 AGAIN)the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?(The Temples DESTRUCTION is the first question) and (2)what shall be the sign of thy coming, and (3)of the end of the world? ( 2 and 3 only get answered in verses 15-31)

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you(YOU my DISCIPLES).

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many(in 70 AD).

6 And ye(disciples are the YE here) shall hear of wars and rumours of wars(in 70 AD): see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet

{{{ The END is the 70th week when Jesus returns to set up his Kingdom at the 7th Vial, Jesus is telling his Disciples, hey, this will not be me when YE (his Disciples) hear of Wars & Rumors of wars (67-70 AD events) so do not be DECIEVED, else you will rush back and be killed and so will the Gentile Church members, so he is saying STAY AWAY from Jerusalem, go spread my Gospel unto the world, he says many will come in MY NAME, not as Jesus, but as the Messianic Leader, the two or three the Pharisees put forth in 67-70 AD to try and defeat Rome, the Fourth Beast. You guys are conflating this to the END TIMES, but Jesus tells his Disciples THE END is later on or BY & BY !! Then in verse 14 he tells them what will bring THE END in a way that lets them know they will never see THE END (70th week) themselves, thus they will never, ever, ever make those MISTAKES which they could have made. Because they are told beforehand exactly what to do, what is going to go down, and how its going to go down, they are even told of their impending DEATHS so they will understand they must die as Martyrs, thus they have plenty of time to face these facts of life, and understand they will be killed by false prophets (not Christians) of those Zeus and Jupiter type gods, all because the Gospel is reaching their patrons and turning the Western Civilizations against them, and towards the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You just ASSUME the Anti-Christ tries to deceive people. He will indeed try to fool those Jews who get saved, but later in Matt. 24 I will show why this is not possible to do(Well, I will do it now....It is because Jesus FORETELLS those 70th week Jews in Matt. 24:24-27 that he will come from the Eastern Skies for all to see, not a Secret Store Room, and not from the Desert, thus they can not be DECIEVED, Amen). But the Anti-Christ does not profess to be Jesus or the Jewish Messiah, he professes to be the ONLY GOD !! But alas he is a punk. Amen.

Also, he is not a "False Rider" per se, that is just people putting their own spin on it, the White Horse per se is not imitating Jesus, the White Horse is signifying VICTORY & CONQUERING, everyone of olden times knew this, a White Horse represented a conqueror who wins. So, the Anti-Christ goes forth conquering for 42 months, then 3.5 years later Jesus goes forth Conquering. I doubt either is riding a true white horse, its just symbolism. The BOW which I agree shows cheaper fabric, not a bow and arrow, and the crown of twine shows this man not to be of Royalty, and the MANY CROWNS and Regal White Linen Robe shows Jesus is of Royalty, he will sit on the Throne of David as Lord of lords and King of kings. But the former not being of Royalty doesn't mean he is faking as if he is Jesus, we are simply being given CLUES/Keys to understand what the Book of Revelation means via all of this symbolism. We need to know which is which, but nowhere, except via men's traditions are we told that he tries to fake being the Jewish Messiah, and people get that by misunderstanding John 5:43. }}}

CONTINUED............

 

[Ronald D Milam]

2nd Sign: Matthew 24:6 - you will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but don't be troubled for the end is not yet. That parallels the 2nd Seal which is about a red war horse taking peace off the earth.

I have answered this above, all of this is the first sign via the Temple and Jerusalem being destroyed. All you have to do here is slow down and THINK it through, Jesus says the end is by and by (LATER ON) then tells them in verse 14 what brings the end (70th week). Again, BIRTH PANGS that bring the 70th week CAN NOT BE the 70th week, we get those Birth Pangs in verses 7-8, but in essence, Jesus is just trying to confirm in a firm tone what he stated in verse 6, hey guys, the end is by and by or much later on, THEN he goes into detail describing ALL THE THINGS that must come to pass before THE END comes, Jesus does so in like manner in verses 7-8. He says the END IS LATER ON.......Then goes into vivid detail !!

Matt. 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation(Many Wars to the very end including WW's 1 & 2), and kingdom against kingdom(Ethos or race/clans against race/clans): and there shall be famines(we can count the many famines throughout the last 2000 years), and pestilences(the Black Plague, COVID 19 and many, many others) , and earthquakes,(these get more and more frequent like Birth Pangs until the 70th week END COMES, but that is just a sign getting us to the 70th week) in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows(Sorrows means BIRTH PANGS, but once the baby comes, the Birth Pang SIGNS cease to be relevant).

So, Jesus says to his Disciples, the Wars and Rumors of Wars are NOT THE END (70the week) that comes much, much. much later, then DESCRIBES in verses 7 and 8 , many wars by many kingdoms, and tells of races/clans arising against each other, and of MANY Famines and of MANY Earthquakes to come and of MUCH Pestilence to come upon the earth, getting worse and worse and worse like Birth Pangs do, and only then will the 70th week end finally come. You guys are conflating verses about the 70 AD event (Matt. 24:4-6) with the 70th week events, which can not be true, the Birth Pangs bring the BABY or 70th week, the Birth Pangs can not be around during the 70th week, that analogy is nonsensical brother, meaning it does not add up. It has nothing to do with the 2nd Seal, whatsoever.

3rd Sign: Matthew 24:7 - nation against nation, FAMINES, earthquakes, etc. That is about the 3rd Seal regarding a measure of wheat for a penny (high cost in John's day), about the balances of world commerce and world inflation causing reduction of economies, and world hunger.

That should... be well enough to get one started in comparing those Seals with the 7 Signs of Christ's Olivet discourse. The 7th final Sign Jesus gave in Matthew 24 was that of His future coming after the tribulation to gather His saints and take rule on earth. That is paralleled in the latter part of the 6th Seal with it being the time of the Wrath of The Lamb, which is pointing to Christ's future return.

I have already explained what verses 7-8 means, its obvious. You are stuck in a box of your own making brother, and others making also I must add in. Jesus will come after the tribulation, but that tribulation, or Greatest Ever Troubles lasts for 3.5 years, 42 months or 1260 days, it has nothing to do however with Matthew 24:4-6, yes is it shown in Matt. 24:30-31, which happens 3.5 yeas after Matt. 24:29, where the Sun and Moon indeed go dark and the moon goes blood red. So, I will finish up what Matt. 24 means verse by verse. (We all know verses 15-31 is the 70th week, no need for clarification there tbh)


Verse 9 then follows verse 6 really, where Jesus tells them, hey, the 70th week end is by and by or WAY ON DOWN THE ROAD, and to prove this Jesus threw in a few examples of all the things that had to come to pass before the 70th week end could come, thus in verses 7-8 Jesus showed his Disciples how the Birth Pangs would eventually (way on own the road) birth the 70th week end. BUT..........Now back to the business at hand, Jesus tells his disciples what to look for in THEIR LIFETIMES !! NOTICE, Jesus goes back to saying YE, YE, YE, speaking specifically about his Disciples in verse 9. So, basically verses 4-6 is Jesus warning the disciples not to rush back to Jerusalem during the 67-70 AD wars, then he says the end is way own down the road, he then gives them an example in verses 7-8 in a sort of Parenthetical type way, then Jesus goes right back to speaking to the Disciples about what they were going to face during THEIR LIFETIMES !! (Reread it closely)

Matt. 24:9 Then shall they deliver you(Disciples) up to be afflicted, and shall kill you(Disciples): and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another(the Christians at this time were threatened with death, MANY like Judas, betrayed their brothers and exposed themselves like Judas did), and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise(not Christian False Prophets, but Zeus and Jupiter types, they pressured Rome to kill the Christians, this is a well known fact), and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold(The Romans burned Christians at the stake, and of course killed the Disciples, or allowed them to be killed).

13 But he that shall endure unto the end[of his own life], the same shall be saved.

{{{ Jesus is forewarning the Disciples that they can not fall away or betray the Faith as Judas did, THEY must ENDURE until the very end, that is why he is warning them ahead of time that they will be KILLED, so they are not surprised when it comes, so they are ready to die for Jesus' name when the time comes, this does not mean the END TIMES like many think, this is SPECIFICALLY about the Disciples. }}}

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

{{{ So, in verse 6 we see Jesus tells his Disciples the END is by and by or LATER ON, all because he does not want them rushing back to Jerusalem in 67-70 AD thinking he has returned, thus he tells them that Jerusalem will be sacked and the Temple DESTROYED answering their first question. But he says the end is much, much later on, THEN he gives them examples of what all this details with MANY WARS, with MANY EARTHQUAKES, with MUCH PESTILENCE and with MUCH FAMINE, and these will become more and more frequent until the END TIME COMES, as verse 14 shows us, BUT.........this passage is all about warning his disciples what is going to come to pass in their life, what they must face, verses 7-8 is just given in passing, to affirm that THE END in verse 6 is way on down the road, so DO NOT go to Jerusalem at that time, else YE will be KILLED that is Jesus' purpose of this warning, he wants his Disciples to know 100 percent what all they will face, and in verse 14 when Jesus tells them that the Gospel must be preached unto the WHOLE WORLD, and go unto EVERY NATION, everyone of his Disciples knew 100 percent that they would never see this, because they knew of India, China, and the Scythians (modern day Russians) and thus they knew that the BY & BY END Jesus spoke about could never happen in their lifetimes, thus they KNEW not to rush back to Jerusalem for the Wars and Rumors of wars Jesus told them/YE, YE, YE will hear, in verse 6. Get your timing dialed in brother, I use ALL THE FACTS to do this, I do not accept men's traditions that verses 4-14 are about the 70th week or even mostly about the END TIMES, the Birth Pangs are just given in passing, the whole passage is a Survival Guide for the Disciples so they could build up the Church without having to worry if Jesus was returning anytime soon, Jesus took all of these "THOUGHTS AWAY' the Disciples knew, that they knew, that they KNEW that Jesus was not going to return during their lifetimes, in fact they were all told they were going to become Martyrs, save John. This was who the Olivet Discourse was aimed at, Jesus' disciples (at least in verses 4-14). Jesus telling his Disciples what all they were going to face. Verse 14 ends the Church Age, thus THE END (70th week) is brought forth in verse 15 where we see the AoD which of course happens during the 70th week. The rest of Matthew 24 from 15-31 is about that END or 70th week. }}}



So, it is bad when most of the world has been so deceived about the Olivet Discourse, at least about verses 4-14, that they can not get these simple statements by Jesus correct, Jesus says over and over, YE, YE, YE, YE to his disciples, and many people still insist this is the 70th week and the Seals, when in reality, even the Seals DO NOTHING anyway, they are mere Prophetic Utterances by Jesus showing us what the coming Seven Trumpet Judgments will bring when the Asteroid hits the earth, starting in Rev. 8.



Yes, verses 15-31 is about the 70th week, NO, verses 4-14 ARE NOT about the 70th week, nor can they be.

 

[Davy]

Also unto 6 Stories

OK, lets walk ourselves through this brother, when you take the time to engage you can be and are rather intelligent, the whimsical replies do not cut it, these are far too important things to just brush off with belated replies. I love challenges, that means I can teach why things are not always as they seem. Especially things written 2000 some odd years ago, I always (NOW anyway) try to wrap my brain around the original intended message, then proceed from there, others tend to just jump on the message and they do not think who the original message was intended to, and thus what does it mean. This is why men, for a while have conflated Matt. 24:4-14 with the 70th week, which can not be. Now sow down and think it through.

Confucius say... beware of braggarts. If this were a real public debate, you would have already lost just by those above statements, for it reveals vanity, your thinking those kind of statements prove something when they don't. I don't make whimsical statements, if I get onto you with a rebuke, it will be the truth as it is, and I can back it up in God's written Word.

Who is Jesus speaking unto in Matt. 24? Well, in verses 4-14 it is obvious once we decipher it that it is a survival guide intended for his Disciples, then in verses 15-31 it is obvious he changes his message unto the end time Jews. (Jesus only ministered unto the Lost Sheep of Israel)

Jesus is speaking 'with' His disciples that were with Him upon the Mount of Olives which represented His EARLY CHURCH, but He was ALSO speaking TO HIS CHURCH FOR THE END JUST PRIOR TO HIS FUTURE COMING. His disciples specifically asked Him about the signs of when there would no longer be one stone atop another there on the temple mount, AND about the sign of HIS COMING and the END OF THE WORLD.

Thus the Subject from the Beginning in Matthew 24:3 is:
1. When shall "these things" be? pointing to ALL the 7 Signs Jesus gave there in the whole Chapter, not just that one verse.
2. What shall be the Sign of Thy coming? The Sign of Jesus' 1st coming?? NO! of course not. The Sign of Jesus' 2nd coming at the END of this present world.
3. What shall be the Sign of the end of the world. The end of the Apostilic age? NO!!! The end of this present world on the day Jesus returns in the future, meaning the LAST DAY!

Simple.

But YOU would rather create CHAOS and FALSEHOOD with your pushing DOCTRINES OF MEN with your ADDING to the simple Matthew 24 Scripture, because you follow 'men' and NOT what JESUS SAID THERE! Therefore, to teach OUTSIDE the simplicity of the Matthew 24 Scripture as written means YOU FOLLOW A FALSE AGENDA LIKE THE BLIND PHARISEES DID.

Christ's Olivet discourse is NOT ONLY FOR HIS DISCIPLES THERE WITH HIM, NOR ONLY FOR JEWS. And you even reveal YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO the 'lost sheep of the house of Israel' idea He said in Matthew 15:24 is about, since after the split of old Israel that God did back in 1 Kings 11, the label "house of Israel" after that point APPLIED TO THE TEN NORTHERN TRIBES OF ISRAEL ONLY! The ten tribes were not even there in Judea at Jesus' 1st coming! They were still scattered beyond Euphrates! Only a small remnant of the 3 tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi were left in the southern lands of Judea-Jerusalem when Jesus' 1st coming happened! And it would be the ten scattered tribes of the "house of Israel" along with the Gentiles they were scattered among that would RECEIVE THE GOSPEL, while the majority of Jews would still reject Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, even as it still is... to this day! So you might try Bible Study 101 again since you are not aware of that Biblical history. So is that whimsical enough for ya?

Matt. 24:4 IS NOT about the Anti-Christ, this is the biggest misnomer in the bible, it is about the 70 AD Roman army destroying Jerusalem and the temple of God, REMEMBER that was the very first sign, I will show you below. Why is this important for his Disciples to understand? (THINK)

YOU are the one who needs to stop following the stupid Preterist seminary agendas of men's traditions, and stick to the written Scripture instead.

Matthew 24:4 is MOST DEFINITELY about the 'concept' of "antichrist", which later at Matthew 24:23-26 Jesus reveals about the final Antichrist at the end in Jerusalem just prior to His future return! It will be that final Antichrist He revealed for the end of this world that will place the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in a stone temple in JERUSALEM which Jesus quoted about in the Book of Daniel! That means... the Daniel 11 PROPHETIC EVENTS about the "vile person" MUST BE FOLLOWED! The Matthew 24:4 mention about "MANY" coming "SAYING" they are Christ is about the "many antichrists" of 1 John 2:18. John covered the idea of a SINGULAR ANTICHRIST that the brethren had ALREADY HEARD SHALL COME, and also the fact of PLURAL "MANY ANTICHRISTS" that were already at work. So Jesus covered BOTH also in Matthew 24:4-5 (PLURAL ANTICHRISTS), and in Matthew 24:23-26 (SINGULAR ANTICHRIST with Greek pseudo-Christos).

The destruction of Jerusalem and the 2nd temple by the Roman army in 70 A.D. DID NOT FULFILL THE "abomination of desolation" that Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel! So you are TELLING A LIE FROM MEN'S FALSE DOCTRINES.

The Roman army under Titus COULD NOT GET CONTROL OF THE TEMPLE in Jerusalem. It burned down before they could seize it. (this per Jewish historian Josephus). That means NO ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION EVENT HAPPENED THEN, because that AOD event per the Book of Daniel REQUIRES A STANDING STONE TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM!

Because if the Disciples had come rushing back to Jerusalem thinking Jesus has shown up to defeat the Fourth Beast as Daniel says he will do (kinda...its really the 5th Beast A.C. but they had no clue) then they would have all died in like 67-70 AD and the Church no doubt would have rushed back with them to fight for their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ so Jesus had to show them that this TEMPLE DESTRUCTION was not the end times, thus he laid out why this was not his second coming, which would only by LATER ON (by and by). The problem with people is they see scriptures like John 5:43 and they get its TIMING all wrong. That verse is SPECIFICALLY about the Pharisees of Jesus' time, SEE BELOW: Jesus is speaking unto the Pharisees, men today think John 5:43 is about the End Time Anti-Christ, it is not, it is about the Pharisees putting forth "Messianic Figures" to try and save them from the Roman Fourth Beast, and this can be proven via history, go watch the invasion of Jerusalem in 70 AD on Youtube, they even name a few of the men that the Pharisees & Scribes put forth as Political Saviors. Understanding all that SEE BELOW: Jesus is speaking about the Pharisees, not an End Time Anti-Christ.

What a bunch of gobble-di-goop, totally having left the written Scriptures. Like Jesus said in John 18:36, His literal, physical Kingdom is NOT of this present world, meaning not of this present world earth age, but of the world to come that begins at His future return. So it is very easy to know Biblical events about His 1st coming, and distinguish them from events about His 2nd coming that will END this present world. All you're trying to do with the above is push chaotic fake evidence from the false men you follow, in order to TRICK the Biblically illiterate with, which is exactly the kind of working of the Judaizers who work against Christ (like those in Galatians which Paul rebuked).

And in John 5:43 Lord Jesus most definitely IS SPEAKING ABOUT A FINAL ANTICHRIST COMING AT THE END OF THIS WORLD! The Antichrist at the end is exactly... who the blind JEWS even at the END will bow in false worship to, as written! So nice try, but you can't re-direct what timing and who Jesus was pointing that about.

In Matthew 24:23-26, Jesus is warning of a SPECIFIC PSEUDO-CHRIST coming to JERUSALEM at the end working great signs and wonders, that IF it were possible, would deceive even His very elect. The KJV wrongly translated Greek pseudochristos to "false Christs", when the CONTEXT of the 23-26 verses is SINGULAR. That is the same Antichrist figure that Apostle Paul warned about in 2 Thessalonians 2 that is to come at the end working those great signs and lying wonders, and proclaim himself as God in a STANDING stone temple in JERUSALEM, and that also is the same one John was given to speak of in Revelation 13:11 forward as the "another beast" that comes appearing as a lamb (The LAMB Jesus), but will speak as a "dragon" (Satan). That false one is to rain fire down from heaven upon the earth in the sight of men, and work miracles to deceive the whole world with; and... he is to cause the "image of the beast" to be created and demand that all bow in false worship at the sound of the musical instrument, or be killed. That is... what the "abomination of desolation" IDOL that Jesus quoted from Daniel will be about for the end of this world. And ALL OF THOSE SIGNS about that coming Antichrist are given in relation to the very END of this present world, NOT 70 A.D. like the false crept in seminary workers say that push the FALSE DOCTRINE OF PRETERISM, which is what YOU are following.

 

[Davy]

I have answered this above, all of this is the first sign via the Temple and Jerusalem being destroyed.

You have answered NOTHING! That is what YOUR FALSE PRETERIST DOCTRINE you are pushing here is, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

You are a COPYCAT, following a FALSE seminary agenda called Preterism. You didn't come up with those false Preterist ideas you push, and thusly it reveals YOU DO NOT EVEN THINK FOR YOURSELF, but just BLINDLY follow men, and NOT The Word of God as written! And truly, to be a copycat following those blind crept in unawares of the Book of Jude, your understanding will NEVER BE BLESSED BY my Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ!

 

[6 Stories]

I do not agree. Rev 20 takes us back to the 1st resurrection and finishes at the second coming and the general resurrection/judgment.

I agree that Rev 20 begins with the 1st resurrection, but it only takes us back to the last plague. The 1st resurrection is a harvest that occurs at the end of the age. Matt 13:30 "Let both (wheat and tares) grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them but gather the wheat into my barn." The last plague as found in Rev 14:14-20 pictures this harvest. The enemies of Christ have already been gathered at Armageddon, the tares; then Christ reaps (resurrection/rapture) those who belong to him (14-16). Christ's enemies are then squashed as a grape harvest, killed by falling rocks of mountains and by hail; before being tormented in the fire of hell.

Where do you find a difference in timing between the 1st resurrection and the second coming?
Do you believe in the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth?

 

[6 Stories]

In order to be able to reply to your reply above "in red" in between my answers/replies, I am going to have to paste and the do some fancy footwork, this makes it a lot harder to reply unto. I will place your Replies IN BOLD AND UNDERLINE THEM ALL.
-------------------

Revelation is not in Chronological Order, it has an ORDER but it has to be pieced together by looking specifically for God's Wrath. In short:

Rev. 1 is John seeing Jesus in all his Glory (The things which you HAVE SEEN) I agree with this.

Rev. 2 & 3 is the "Things which Are" or the Church Age. (7 means Divine Completion) These are things that were occurring during the 1st century. However, churches are going through similar circumstances today.

I had to delete the rest of the quote to make room for my response.

These are presumptions that I do not agree with.
1 "Which means the Church Age is and will be ONGOING until the Pre Trib Rapture. Once Rev. 4:1 happens Jesus blows the Last Trump which ends the "Church Age Harvest". Everything after that is the HEREAFTER."

The church age continues beyond the "pre trib rapture" with "tribulation saints."

Jesus will never blow the last trump because the trump symbolizes the voice of God the Father. Jesus has the voice of "many waters."
The last trump is the last voice of God the Father as pictured in 1 Cor 15:52 "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet..."
This is when "death is swallowed up in victory." (verse 54) 1 Cor 15:26 "The last enemy that will be destroyed is death." This last trumpet occurs after Jesus reigns for 1000 years on earth.

There are 2600 years of history that evidence hereafter can't be interpreted as you say. For 600 years from King Nebuchadnezzar until Jesus, there were 4 world empires (conquerors/antichrists) that were unrestrained to kill with war, famine, and pestilence. Empires formed (conquerors/antichrists) with war, famine, and pestilence since the time Jesus sent his Holy Spirit, have been limited to 1/4 of the earth as stated in Rev 6:8. Hereafter in Daniel 2 was from Daniel's lifetime until Jesus becomes the world leader and hereafter in Revelation 4 is from John's lifetime until there is a new heaven and a new earth.

2 There are 1000 years between the trump of God in 1 Thes 4:16 and the last trump of God in 1 Cor 15:52. Both trumps are times of harvest.

3 "(3) Rev. 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days(means the COMPLETE Church Age): be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life,

This means that people in this church during the first century were going to be put to death and in spite of that, they were not to deny Jesus. Christians throughout time are not to deny Jesus even when it is a death sentence. The other 2 verses you quoted also apply to Christians throughout time, but the presumption that that time ends in Rev 4:1 has been the greatest error concerning the timing of events listed throughout the Revelation.

4 "So, that is settled, John IS NOT the only human there, we are all there as shown in Rev. 4:4 and Rev. 5:9-10"
The tabernacle on earth, including the priesthood was done according to the pattern in heaven. Heb 8:5. This includes the 24 elders in heaven who were represented by 24 people on earth. In Rev 5:9 the elders of heaven sing the song of the redeemed. This song is not their song, but a repetition of the prayers of the saints (Rev 5:8) which are taken to God. (Represented in the tabernacle by the altar of incense.) This is the song of the church that could only be formed after Jesus ascended into heaven. The previous song was a reflection of those who gained faith in God through his creation. (Rev 4:11) It is only after Jesus prepared heaven by the sacrifice of his blood redeeming sinful mankind; that mankind is found in heaven in Rev 6:9, the 5th seal.

5. 7 days = 7 years and these 7 years exist between Rev 4 and 20.
If you follow my 6 stories, they come to the same harvest that you reference and agree that this harvest is shown again and again. This is the time of the last plague on my chart. The chart also shows that these stories never begin with the rapture because the rapture is the harvest, the end of the story.

Grandkids are in town for the week, so I won't likely be responding for a while.

 

[Davy]

The church age continues beyond the "pre trib rapture" with "tribulation saints."

No such thing as "tribulation saints" either, as that is an idea created by the false Pre-trib Rapture school. By the time the "great tribulation" starts that Lord Jesus warned for the end, everyone will be divided into only 2 factions, those who fall away to the coming pseudo-Christ, and those who do not that will wait on Jesus to return. The faithful saints who wait are to be 'sealed' with God's seal prior to the tribulation timing. Those not sealed with God's seal will believe on the coming false-Christ. The "tribulation saints" idea was manufactured by the Pre-trib Rapture school in order to try and scoot... by Christ's SIGNS of the end He gave His Church per His Olivet discourse. They lie and say the Signs of the end Jesus gave in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Revelation is not about His Church, as they will already be raptured before the time of "great tribulation", which of course is NOT written.

The Pre-trib Rapture theory is false, and began in 1830s Great Britain with Edward Irving and John Nelson Darby. Prior to that, no pre-trib rapture was ever taught in the Christian Church, as the Church was solidly post-trib about the time of Christ's future return and gathering of His Church, as written (Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27; and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-9; and per the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial events of Christ's future coming).

Jesus will never blow the last trump because the trump symbolizes the voice of God the Father. Jesus has the voice of "many waters."
The last trump is the last voice of God the Father as pictured in 1 Cor 15:52 "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet..."
This is when "death is swallowed up in victory." (verse 54) 1 Cor 15:26 "The last enemy that will be destroyed is death." This last trumpet occurs after Jesus reigns for 1000 years on earth.

No one can determine Biblical prophetic timelines with just pivoting on adverbs like "hereafter". The way to properly understand a Biblical prophetic timeline is by studying the EVENTS given in order to recognize it, and also look for more than one Scripture witness to back it up in God's Word.

The "last trump" of 1 Cor.15 is the SAME 7th trumpet of Revelation 11:15 when Jesus takes reign over all nations on earth. It is also the 7th Vial timing which is about the events on the "day of the Lord", the last day of this present world when Jesus will come to gather His saints and begin His "thousand years" reign over all nations. That "last trump" is the same timing as John 5:28-29 with Jesus' future coming and ALL... in the graves coming forth at His Voice, those who did good to the "resurrection of life", and those who did evil to the "resurrection of damnation". His "thousand years" reign with His faithful elect saints that waited for Him then begins immediately after that event.

There are 2600 years of history that evidence hereafter can't be interpreted as you say. For 600 years from King Nebuchadnezzar until Jesus, there were 4 world empires (conquerors/antichrists) that were unrestrained to kill with war, famine, and pestilence. Empires formed (conquerors/antichrists) with war, famine, and pestilence since the time Jesus sent his Holy Spirit, have been limited to 1/4 of the earth as stated in Rev 6:8. Hereafter in Daniel 2 was from Daniel's lifetime until Jesus becomes the world leader and hereafter in Revelation 4 is from John's lifetime until there is a new heaven and a new earth.

You are MISAPPLYING those Signs Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse to back in history, when He gave ALL those Signs in Matthew 24 for the LAST GENERATION THAT WILL SEE HIS RETURN.

Matt 24:32-34
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
KJV

There is only one... way that "generation" that shall "see all these things" can happen. It MUST... mean the FINAL GENERATION ON EARTH AT THE END, that will SEE Jesus' future return. The LAST SIGN Jesus gave there, is that of His future return and gathering of His saints, which to this day HAS NOT happened yet.

Thus the Preterist doctrines of men that are taught in some Christian seminaries today, ARE FALSE, and leave Bible Scripture. Those pushing those doctrines will have to pay for it too when Lord Jesus returns.

2 There are 1000 years between the trump of God in 1 Thes 4:16 and the last trump of God in 1 Cor 15:52. Both trumps are times of harvest.

Again NO! That is a false idea.

The "last trump" of 1 Cor.15:52 is the SAME as the 7th Trumpet of Revelation 11:15 when Jesus comes to take reign over the whole earth. Even the phrase with "last..." means the fartherest one out per the Greek, which means the 7th trumpet, because 7 trumpets in Revelation is all that Lord Jesus gave for the end.

So I really don't understand how anyone could be confused about that, except those who have wrongly accepted false doctrines of men like a false pre-trib rapture from men, or of the various seminary categories wrongly taught in some theological seminaries today.

3 "(3) Rev. 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days(means the COMPLETE Church Age): be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life,

This means that people in this church during the first century were going to be put to death and in spite of that, they were not to deny Jesus. Christians throughout time are not to deny Jesus even when it is a death sentence. The other 2 verses you quoted also apply to Christians throughout time, but the presumption that that time ends in Rev 4:1 has been the greatest error concerning the timing of events listed throughout the Revelation.

That event of being delivered up is for BOTH the times of the early disciples, but ALSO for Christ's faithful saints during the coming "great tribulation" time just prior to Christ's future return.

In Matthew 10:17-23, the early disciples are warned by Jesus about being delivered up to councils and synagogues, and when they are persecuted in one city, flee to another. That was historical.

But the Mark 13:9-13 and Matthew 24:9-14 delivering up of the saints is for THE END OF THIS WORLD just prior to the day of Christ's future return. ALL... of those Signs Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse are about the VERY END OF THIS WORLD IN THE FINAL GENERATION, including that not one stone atop another Sign (the 70 A.D. destruction only being an ensample).

Mark 13:29-30
29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
KJV

What Jesus said above in red isn't that difficult to understand. When He pointed to when 'they' would see all these things come to pass, that means ALL the SIGNS He was giving in answer to His disciples questions about the end and of his future return. THAT... is what His Olivet discourse is about, the LAST SIGN He gave there being about the event of His future return and gathering of His Church.

But YOU folks come here pushing LIES from men's idiotic seminary controllers of false workers that have taken most of them over in today's times! They have NO intention of following what God's written Word teaches, but instead like the Pharisees of old TEACH THEIR OWN WORD, and GOD DID NOT SEND THEM. No wonder all these stupid arguments keep happening on Christian forums today, there's so much Biblical illiteracy caused by Satan's "mystery of iniquity" in many Christian outlets today, that God's True Word is being hidden under a bushel!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

To date, there are only theories on Revelation.

AMEN! Very Well spoken. All the prophecy experts totally and vehemently disagreeing with
each other. Where is the Biblical profit, encouragement, and building up in that?

Where are the Mystery experts, who don't 'live and die' "in the Confusing future," * but are
getting The Gospel Of Grace out, and helping Confused new-born babes, ↑ not with ↑, but
with, Today's Message Of "Approval Unto God," solving the Confusion? And having:

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!

* Would probably solve the Confusion of the future disagreements also: