Cherry Picking The Bible

[Fryo]

Ok well first I'm new, I live in Brooklyn, 19, female, and I'm an atheist. I'm not here to offend, just to ask legitimate thought provoking questions about faith and religion. Many people of faith admit that the Bible is a man made document and also that there are many cruel, unjust, absurdities, contradictions, and oppressive text and stories in it, both Old and New Testaments. And then there are some who profess that the Bible is the absolute, unadulterated, perfect word of the Abrahamic God, and that this god is symbol of love, but yet there are many instances where this god murders and approves behavior that many of us in the modern world condemn.Knowing and possibly admitting that there is truth to what I said above, why do people in the Abrahamic faith still insist on following and teaching the Bible ? Is it logical for you to cherry pick the Bible but then leave out all the rest of bad stuff as irrelevant and say these things don't pertain to your religion and the character of God, when it's written there? Isn't the fact that Bible is clearly a document written by men, enough to deem it faulty? Before you say "Fryo, why are you focusing on the bad things?" or something like that. I'm doing this because, yes of course the Bible has good moral values in it, but then what else is left and how is it possible for you reconcile with so many horrible things?

 

[Thunder1]

Hi Fryo,Bad stuff in the Bible is there to teach us not to behave badly purposely, and when I say purposely, I mean we still can't be totally perfect ever, but we try not to do bad stuff purposely. Bible teaches us that there are consequences to bad behaviour, but also Bible teaches about God's mercy if we repent.

 

[setfree]

The Bible was written by the Holy Spirit, He just used man to pen it.

 

[desertdude]

Fryo I have been asking chirstians for some time the EXCACT same thing ,and no one has been able to offer a logical explination for any of this ,Let alone no one has been able to logically explain the trinity the concept of 1=3 or 3=1 .The best explinations have been some flawed analagys. Fryo don't give up on god just yet explore every option avaiable to you and make up your mind ,and if you still think athesism makes the most sense then you are entitled to that belief

 

[Jordan]

(Fryo;36334)
Ok well first I'm new, I live in Brooklyn, 19, female, and I'm an atheist. I'm not here to offend, just to ask legitimate thought provoking questions about faith and religion. Many people of faith admit that the Bible is a man made document and also that there are many cruel, unjust, absurdities, contradictions, and oppressive text and stories in it, both Old and New Testaments. And then there are some who profess that the Bible is the absolute, unadulterated, perfect word of the Abrahamic God, and that this god is symbol of love, but yet there are many instances where this god murders and approves behavior that many of us in the modern world condemn.Knowing and possibly admitting that there is truth to what I said above, why do people in the Abrahamic faith still insist on following and teaching the Bible ? Is it logical for you to cherry pick the Bible but then leave out all the rest of bad stuff as irrelevant and say these things don't pertain to your religion and the character of God, when it's written there? Isn't the fact that Bible is clearly a document written by men, enough to deem it faulty? Before you say "Fryo, why are you focusing on the bad things?" or something like that. I'm doing this because, yes of course the Bible has good moral values in it, but then what else is left and how is it possible for you reconcile with so many horrible things?
Dear Fryo,I used to be an Atheist. There are many, I mean many APPARANT (not yelling) contradictions. They are contradictions in our flesh eyes. But if we are ought to understand Truth, we must understand His Word on God's perspective, not on our human perspective.But Truth be told, no man will have the same amount of wisdom as others, as God gives everybody a different amount of wisdom. That being said God's thoughts are not human's thoughts, and God's ways are not human ways. (Isaiah 55:8-9, Proverbs 3:5-7, Psalm 118:8-9)I am not allow to understand the bible in a worldly, carnally mind. Otherwise, there is something wrong with my thinking.Did God kill people? Yes He did, because mankind was corrupted with sin. And all of us are born in sin. Did God murder people? No, He didn't, otherwise He is a unjust God.But thank God, that He removed the ordinances, rituals in His laws that was against us. (Colossians 2:14) All we need is repent of our sins in the name of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the world. (John 4:42, I John 4:14)God is so wonderful that He can never break His promises and can never lie.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[Fryo]

Okay..Some of these answers are absurd.Here's the thing about the Bible clearly being written by man. Do you think that the men who wrote this had an agenda of their own? Perhaps to control and cause fear? Another thing is that many historians have evidence that some of the Ten Commandments where copied verbatim from the Egyptian Book of the Dead which predates the Bible by 300 years. (Mind you, I think all religions and faiths are man made, so I'm not claiming any legitimacy to the Egyptians and their books and their gods and goddesses.)Take the story of Adam and Eve. This story is filled with absurdities. If God created 2 people, who mated and had children, where does everybody else come? Did God permit incest to populate the world? Because supposedly Kane had a sister and slept with her. But we know that when blood lines are too close, there are defects... But oh yea, I forgot, silly me, they were made to perfection. Geez the guys who wrote this sure weren't stupid and looked out for objections. ; )And if incest was right back then and became wrong later, did God make a mistake in his judgment of condoning incest and then later condemns? No matter which may you look at it, it's still incest. This story is also laced with misogyny, and misogynistic teaching are throughout the Bible. That story is supposedly why women feel pain during child birth (ridiculous)that women are supposedly cursed for causing the sin of all man, and are to submit to men! Why is most of the brunt toward women and not so much men? Does this God believe in equality? And let's talk about the logic of this God. If supposedly he made all of us, knows us, knew us, controls, intervenes, knows every word, thought, action past, present and future tense, heck, he already knows who's gonna to heaven and hell. (Another topic I must get around to). Then why does he bother? Him knowing all these things negates the idea of free will doesn't it? There is no such as free will if this God already knows and planned everything out. I will not claim to know this God's mind or see things through his eyes because, I can't! I can't claim to know anyones mind! I'm only applying basic common sense, logic, understanding, and reasoning and I'm looking at it as it, and analyzing it.

 

[ForYou]

First off for Adam and Eve,They never said they were the only to,It says in one part,Cain had sexual realations with his wife,and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch,and For that to happen there had to be other people on the world,So NO GOD DID NOT ACCEPT INCEST,you have heard lies,Because Adam and Eve only had TWO SONS,CAIN AND ABEL,Cain murdered abel leaving only him,but God later blesses them to have another child,SETH ANOTHER GUY,and if you are going by laws of today also,It is physically impossible for 2 guys to have a child NO INCEST THERE AT ALL,it did not say Cain had sex with Ever so therefor God NEVER ACCEPTED INCEST.Proving what you just said was all wrong,Sounds silly you would think that.You have the will to turn away from God,God CAN NOT MAKE YOU BELIEVE IN HIM,It is truly your OWN "FREE WILL",God "bothers" because he loves us and wants all of us with him. So we do have free will,yes he knows what you are going to do you can hide it from everyone BUT GOD.And you are probably saying there is no God because there is no proof,The bible is proof,It is Gods word written by Man,Instead of believing the world you are shutting out god and trying to find reasons it is not real.Instead hear the word of God do not let the devil in, Also the bible cleary predicts event that HAVE and WILL HAPPEN,so is that not proof enough?You can think God is not real all you want,but when you say he is not real,Aren't you believing he isn't which is faith the things Christians also have,Faith you have to have it in whatever you believe in,And for your faith YOU HAVE NO PROOF that God is not real,there is nothing but words of MAN NOT GOD that are written as mere factors to turn you away from God so that your life will never prosper,Trust in our God!

 

[stlizzy]

We cannot further prove the existence to God to You because all of the proof that you need is right before your eyes. God calls everyone to Him, but many don't or won't or refuse... (however you want to put it) to listen. However, true Christians know that God is alive, they feel Him everyday, they see Him work in their lives, they see Him change and work in other's lives- and this is through the Holy Spirit, which is God. And these things we cannot do alone! (KJB Matthew 7:7)"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you"Before I was not a nice person. God changed me.If you really, really dug into the Bible, if you studied it your whole life- which many people do because there is always something more to study- but you refused to treat it any more than a book and refused to have any sort of faith in God... you could very well stay confused and as angry as you were before.(2 Timothy 3:16 KJV)"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"But, those who are sincere at heart- who want to find God, will. Because He has told us that any who seek Him will find Him.But if you have just set out to try to prove that He does not exist, or that Christianity is just another "religion" than you are a parrot of every generation that has been since the fall of man. And you will rest in your ignorance, angry at Christians because you think you are smarter than them, and that you are smarter than God- so smart that you can prove He doesn't even exist.But Christ wants to show you His awesome love- but He won't give you a lightening bolt out of the sky! Because He has already given you enough- this is where faith comes in. If you scoff at this, than you are not seeking God. ANYONE WHO SEEKS, TRULY SEEKS TO FIND GOD WITH AN HONEST AND OPEN HEART WILL FIND HIM! He wants you to find Him! But searching means really searching without a single agenda... you must put away all thought of yourself and search to find Him.Christianity, following Jesus Christ is not a religion, it is a reality. It is a life-changing and life-saving reality. Walking with Christ is an amazing and wonderful life! Praise be to the Father!I didn't write any of this thinking that I am better than you or to insult you in some way, to turn you off to Christ. I am writing this in honesty and with fervent belief, love and knowledge in God.Furthermore, I wonder, I really wonder, how atheists can claim to disprove God. Because to disprove something you need to research it and really look for it. And anyone who has sincerely looked for God, this means without an agenda to try to disprove Him but with a sincere heart, and has searched and searched for wisdom, will find Him. But you cannot expect a quick fix and with fanfare.... As well, the logic of time- the concept of time, is for our benefit. We need it to come to God. He knows that we do... and He gives us a choice. Often the Lord's way is slow, plodding. And we wonder to ourselves, "Why doesn't He just DO SOMETHING ALREADY IF HE IS GOD AND ALL-POWERFUL." Many people thought God should have sent the Messiah right away, and wondered what "His problem was" for waiting. But God works on His own time-frame, not ours. We have to trust Him. To have faith in Him!We have three different ways to relate to God because it is easier for us that way and because it is God's plan that is should be that way. God, the Holy Spirit, Christ. All are one and are the three. Jesus is the Son of God and is also God. And it works perfectly. It is a marvelous and genius concept that gives glory to God.Anyone who "cherry-picks" the Bible does himself or herself a great disservice, because they are using if for their own gain and it will lead to ruin! But those who ask God to reveal His meanings in the Bible, those who follow God with all of theirs hearts and listen carefully to the Holy Spirit, gain wisdom and understanding through the whole Bible. It's purpose is to point us to God. (And just a thought here, but I would hardly say that Paul the authors of the Bible wrote it to gain control or financial gain. Look at Paul in the New Testament- the man was sick, beaten and thrown into prison all of the time, and poor...)All Praise be to God! He is Holy and Almighty!

 

[Fryo]

Genesis 5:4 "After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and DAUGHTERS"So the story starts with two Adam & Eve, then Cain &(my bad for misspelling the last time) Abel. = 4. Cain kills Abel, now we've got three. Supposedly eight hundred years later we get Seth, we're back to four, and Adam has more sons has daughters, the number is not mentioned. So were at 4 - who knows how many, but the 4 - how ever many, have to all be the offspring of Adam and Eve. Making them all related to each other.Correct?There indeed were sisters to copulate with and plenty of time. Many theologians and biblical scholars recognize this. And even if it were only guys, my question would still be, how did the world get populated? Without ASSUMING that God created random people whilst the existence of Adam and Eve because that's not what written in the Bible. And I'm astounded by the emotional testimony as opposed to thought and discussion. And I'm not talking about the proof, evidence, existence, what Christians feel or why you guys are so special, or belief or lack of belief in this God. I'm talking about the legitimacy, authenticity and accuracy of the Bible and the rhetoric and character of this God as reflected in Biblical text. That's it. And yet none of you responded to claims of misogyny, the possible motives of pen holders and could someone please explain the population question! What I'm also assessing is this, correct me if I'm wrong:Analyzing and forming legitimate questions and objections to the Bible and the character of this God, is wrong. I should not be seeking knowledge, fact and information in order to see if they make sense. < This is a mistake?

 

[stlizzy]

No, you should seek all you want. Because the Bible is unfalsifiable and it does not contradict itself. But trying to find "light" and the end of the tunnel just through facts won't get you what you seek. Because God is above history and facts and information in that sort of sense, He is a reality and a relationship with Him is a reality. To take the Bible just as an historical book is to study theology. There is plenty of information to be found on the subject that is outside of the Bible. For instance historical accounts written by governments of the time etc. about the life of Jesus Christ....Yes, Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters besides Cain and Abel. Is "an emotional testimony" not the epitome of thought?? Are not humans made up of emotions? Are we not made to reason and to love, to think and to feel???Yet God is more than emotions for He is Truth and Love, Reason and Patience, Thought and Gentleness. God is a very complicated fellow. Do you expect us to be able to give you every aspect of the Creator? How can a clay pot describe the potter? But we can share with you as much as we know- and God will continue to show us more and we will be able to continue to share more. And is it not at His prerogative to end a life on earth just as quickly as it is to create one? But, as for sin and death... God's plan was for life, not death. Sin was a potential... God existed. The prophecies in the Bible do not contradict themselves and the history of the Bible bears witness to God. I will write more on this later, but not tomorrow. Later on this week.Praise be to our Father, who created the heavens and the earth. His Will is perfect and good. His Word is perfect and good. His love is perfect and good!

 

[Jordan]

(Fryo;36416)
Okay..Some of these answers are absurd.Here's the thing about the Bible clearly being written by man. Do you think that the men who wrote this had an agenda of their own? Perhaps to control and cause fear? Another thing is that many historians have evidence that some of the Ten Commandments where copied verbatim from the Egyptian Book of the Dead which predates the Bible by 300 years. (Mind you, I think all religions and faiths are man made, so I'm not claiming any legitimacy to the Egyptians and their books and their gods and goddesses.)Take the story of Adam and Eve. This story is filled with absurdities. If God created 2 people, who mated and had children, where does everybody else come? Did God permit incest to populate the world? Because supposedly Kane had a sister and slept with her. But we know that when blood lines are too close, there are defects... But oh yea, I forgot, silly me, they were made to perfection. Geez the guys who wrote this sure weren't stupid and looked out for objections. ; )And if incest was right back then and became wrong later, did God make a mistake in his judgment of condoning incest and then later condemns? No matter which may you look at it, it's still incest. This story is also laced with misogyny, and misogynistic teaching are throughout the Bible. That story is supposedly why women feel pain during child birth (ridiculous)that women are supposedly cursed for causing the sin of all man, and are to submit to men! Why is most of the brunt toward women and not so much men? Does this God believe in equality? And let's talk about the logic of this God. If supposedly he made all of us, knows us, knew us, controls, intervenes, knows every word, thought, action past, present and future tense, heck, he already knows who's gonna to heaven and hell. (Another topic I must get around to). Then why does he bother? Him knowing all these things negates the idea of free will doesn't it? There is no such as free will if this God already knows and planned everything out. I will not claim to know this God's mind or see things through his eyes because, I can't! I can't claim to know anyones mind! I'm only applying basic common sense, logic, understanding, and reasoning and I'm looking at it as it, and analyzing it.
Fryo, having Adam & Eve, the first and only two people existed in the world, may sound holy, but it is dead and completely unbiblical. God told us He made many races of humans. (Genesis 1:26-28) Adam is just a SPECIAL man for Jesus Christ to come through.Incest is dead wrong, even since in the beginning. God can not be the creator of sin, since He can not sin at all.Who is Cain afraid of is there were only three people left on Earth? (Genesis 4:15)Where did Cain find his wife? (Genesis 4:17)JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[setfree]

Didn't all the different dogs come from just two dogs?Why can't God take the two humans and have the different races come from these two humans?

 

[Fryo]

And yet no one directly addresses the issue of MISOGYNY, discusses the clear incest that had to occur to populate the world or can't understand that God himself is responsible of the sin of humans because, well um, he supposedly creates them. That's like me programming a robot to destroy my lamp, and then when it does destroy the lamp I say, "UGH! Why did you do that?!!!!" ::sigh::. Well you gotta gimme credit for trying. But it's like getting FOX news to conceded that they are actually unfair and imbalanced, even when showing them the clear evidence to their face. This was an exercise of Biblical text which most Christians take to be the word of our God, yet when God gets caught in his own net, which supposedly in his own text, by his own actions, you give me "He's still perfect!" and expect me jump out my chair and sing Hank Williams' "I Saw the Light" even when it doesn't make sense? Remember this is your sacred text not mine. This Bible, this document should make sense in all lights shouldn't? Historically, scientifically, theologically, medicine, because again, the claim of people following the Abrahamic religions, is that this "good book" has everything, and is infallible. Yet flaw, fault, accuracy and mendacity are scribbled wildly throughout it. But again you expect people to believe that 2 people incestuously created 6 billion, in only 6,000 - 10,000 years of supposed Earth existence? If the FIRST BOOK of this document doesn't add up, how? how? how? how? how do expect me to take it seriously? How do YOU take it seriously?B.E.L.I.E.F. sure does hold up this House of Cards. Never mind all this seriously. Someone, dessertdude, did mention that Christians or most religious people, can never give any straight forward answers to objective questions. Just the usual preachy stuff, to which my eyes glaze over and means nothing to me. Perhaps I should take this discussion to another forum. Later folks it's been fun.

 

[setfree]

There are answers to your questions, seems your a little impatient. As for as the incest, there are different dispensations and different laws for each one. I do not have time now to go in to it. Maybe someone else can explain this better. I am at work and do not have time now.

 

[Thunder1]

Yeah that time there were only two people, Adam and Eve and you are right they increased in numbers... how... they had to have children with their relatives at the beginning... How could it happen otherwise... God must have kept them in sane... above my understanding... having babies with your relatives... which does not sound right at all... but that time it had to be like that... otherwise no more people. Today it is outrageous and not healthy of course.

 

[ForYou]

(Thunder1;36562)
Yeah that time there were only two people, Adam and Eve and you are right they increased in numbers... how... they had to have children with their relatives at the beginning... How could it happen otherwise... God must have kept them in sane... above my understanding... having babies with your relatives... which does not sound right at all... but that time it had to be like that... otherwise no more people. Today it is outrageous and not healthy of course.
Thunder find me the quote where it says ADAM AnD EVE WERE THE ONLY ONES BORN AND THEIR kids had sexual relations with each other,I believer that Adam and Eve had only boys,Cain,Abel,SethSo impossible the guys had kids with each other,there were others

 

[Thunder1]

So there were others . Who were they ? Did God create another woman, other races from 'mud'? It's a good question? I really don't know. I haven't thought that myself. It does not change my faith in God though, but please somebody explain to this young lady, if you know. It must be frustrating when nobody really answers and you want to know.Love, Thunder1

 

[Thunder1]

You are right, I feel crappy.

 

[Thunder1]

Fryo :Is it logical for you to cherry pick the Bible but then leave out all the rest of bad stuff as irrelevant and say these things don't pertain to your religion and the character of God, when it's written there? Thunder1:How can you say that we are cherry picking the Bible ? Do you know us all and how we became to know The Christ as our Saviour? Do you know what each of us has been through ? do you know how we read the Bible? I could say then atheists are sitting on a fence not choosing anything just pointing fingers at Christians and making claims even not knowing who we really are-But mainly not knowing who Jesus is FOR YOU .

 

[Thunder1]

Rev. 20:15 if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.cherry picking ???