Children... Ephesians 6

[charity]

happily =]
all scripture is about Him -- He said so. He commanded that we search it and find it testifying of Him. when He opened the understanding of His apostles, He showed them how everything from Moses through the prophets was speaking of Him, of His person and the things which he would do and would be done unto Him.

'Search the scriptures;
for in them ye think ye have eternal life:
and they are they which testify of Me.'
(Joh 5:39)

Hello @post,

I wondered what verse you were thinking of when you said (quote), 'all scripture is about Him ... He said so:' and then saw that you were referring to the record of the meeting of the risen Christ with the two disciples travelling on the road to Emmaus; where it is said, 'And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.' Here it does not say that ALL things were about Him, does it? but that, 'He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.' Though those 'things' concerning Him were to be found in 'all the Scriptures', He identified for them the things within them which concerned Himself, so that not ALL was about Him.

@post said:-
so, i don't know **exactly** what you mean by 'spiritualizing' the text, but in a very real sense God explained to us that the text is spiritual and that it is meant to be understood as both literal events and allegorical revelations of Him. Galatians 4 is an exemplar par excellence of how scripture is to be understood.

* Where did God tell us that, 'the text is spiritual' @post? Where are we told that it is meant to be understood both literally and allegorically?

* You refer to Galatians four as an example. Are you referring to the reference to Hagar and Sarah in Galatians 4:21-31? If so, it is plainly stated in Galatians 4:24 that it is allegorical: and I believe that where an allegorical interpretation is required, that we are told so: and should not take it upon ourselves to interpret any Scripture allegorically unless it is made obvious within the context of the word of God itself that we should do so.

@post said:-
... so ask the questions, what is honor, who is your father, who is your mother, what is long life, what is the land that is promised?
not according to human definition, but divine definition. search the scripture; what does God call life, what does God call Father, what does God call inheritance, what does God call honor?
when you find the answers to these, you will see that these things are all testifying of Him. of salvation, of repentance, of faith, of love, of redemption and unity in Him.
can you see it?
this is the intent of scripture -- what is recorded and is not recorded is recorded or not recorded for the sake of revealing the person and work of God: of Christ, Who is the invisible God made visible. The Word - revealed and testified of in the word.
shall i go on? i don't want to patronize you, but i want you to have open eyes seeing His glory when you look at these texts. i'll give you lists of verses if that's what you need, but my hope is that they are already hidden in your heart with the Truth and you will recognize them for what they are =]

*I agree that those questions can lead on to further truth and a greater understanding, but I would not call that 'spiritualising', but simply exploring the depths of God's word on any subject.

* I believe that God says what He means, and means what He says, and that those questions you ask should be asked only when the truth of what is being said in the text itself is acknowledged.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

Skeptics, those looking for reasons to reject the Bible, often point to some strong words of God that appear in the Old Testament. And here we have Christians giving the worse perspective upon God in the context of His law. The idea is that the God of the Old Testament was harsh, vindictive, and mean-spirited, especially in contrast to Jesus. This isn’t a new argument, but it’s as flawed now as it was when first promoted many centuries ago.

Again and again, the Old Testament presents the Lord as loving His ancient people Israel and wanting only what is best for them. And this love appears powerfully in the book of Deuteronomy.

Read Deuteronomy 10:1–15. What is the immediate context of these verses, and what do they teach us about how God felt toward His people, even after their sin? What do they teach us, indeed, about grace?

God’s grace and love for Israel exudes from these texts. Notice, particularly, verses 12 and 13. They are really one long sentence, a question, and the question is simple: What am I, the Lord, asking you to do but the following . . . walk in My ways, love Me, serve Me, and keep My statutes for your own good?

All through the Hebrew in these verses the words for “your” and “you” are in singular form. Though God certainly is speaking to the nation as a whole, and us, what good will His words do if the people, each one individually, don’t obey them? The whole is only as good as the sum of the parts. The Lord was speaking one-to-one, individually, to Israel as a nation.

We can’t forget, either, the end of verse 13: keep these things letov lak, that is, “for your good.” In other words, God is commanding the people to obey because it is in their best interest to do so. God made them, God sustains them, God knows what is best for them, and He wants what’s best for them. Obedience to His law, to His Ten Commandments, can work only to their benefit.

The law often has been compared to a hedge, a wall of protection, and by staying within that wall, God’s followers are protected from a raft of evils that otherwise would overtake and destroy them. In short, out of love for His people, God gave them His law, and obedience to His law would be “for your good.”

Hello @Backlit,

Yes, Praise God!

'For thus saith the LORD,
That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you,
and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD,
thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
And I will be found of you, saith the LORD:
and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations,
and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD;
and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.
Because ye have said, The LORD hath raised us up prophets in Babylon;
(Jer 29:10-15)

* God is good, God is gracious, God is longsuffering and merciful, slow to anger and swift to bless.
* He is Faithful, and His promises are 'Yea' and 'Amen'.

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris​

 

[charity]

Not mention . . . raise a child in the way he should go, and when he gets older he won't depart from it, that works the other way too. Raise a child with fear, and they will be afraid. Raise them with poverty and they live impoverished. Raise them with licentiousness, and they have self-control issues.

Or like my parents, mostly neglect, and attention was mostly negative, so we preferred the neglect.

Much love!

Hello @marks

'And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God,
to them who are the called according to His purpose.'
(Rom 8:28)

God has brought you to Himself, in Christ Jesus, and you are the sum total of all that you have experienced in life. So, praise God for your parents, for their inability to be anything but what they were: for you are what you are; and in your weakness His strength is being made perfect. You have been able to comfort others with the comfort that you yourself have received, because of the experiences you have had, you have been able to be the instrument of helping others. So rejoice and be exceeding glad, for God is working in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

May His Name be praised, and His will perfectly done, both in and through you, brother.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

'If ye then be risen with Christ,
seek those things which are above,
where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection on things above,
not on things on the earth.
For ye are dead,
and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.'
(Col 3:1-3)

 

[marks]

i hadn't either, but when i read the OP, i saw it immediately ♥

That's cool! And that's how this works! We see, we share, we grow.

Much love!

 

[marks]

for you are what you are; and in your weakness His strength is being made perfect. You have been able to comfort others with the comfort that you yourself have received, because of the experiences you have had, you have been able to be the instrument of helping others. So rejoice and be exceeding glad, for God is working in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Just so!

Much love!

 

[post]

​

'Search the scriptures;
for in them ye think ye have eternal life:
and they are they which testify of Me.'
(Joh 5:39)

Hello @post,

I wondered what verse you were thinking of when you said (quote), 'all scripture is about Him ... He said so:' and then saw that you were referring to the record of the meeting of the risen Christ with the two disciples travelling on the road to Emmaus; where it is said, 'And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.' Here it does not say that ALL things were about Him, does it? but that, 'He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.' Though those 'things' concerning Him were to be found in 'all the Scriptures', He identified for them the things within them which concerned Himself, so that not ALL was about Him.

​

* Where did God tell us that, 'the text is spiritual' @post? Where are we told that it is meant to be understood both literally and allegorically?

* You refer to Galatians four as an example. Are you referring to the reference to Hagar and Sarah in Galatians 4:21-31? If so, it is plainly stated in Galatians 4:24 that it is allegorical: and I believe that where an allegorical interpretation is required, that we are told so: and should not take it upon ourselves to interpret any Scripture allegorically unless it is made obvious within the context of the word of God itself that we should do so.

​

*I agree that those questions can lead on to further truth and a greater understanding, but I would not call that 'spiritualising', but simply exploring the depths of God's word on any subject.

* I believe that God says what He means, and means what He says, and that those questions you ask should be asked only when the truth of what is being said in the text itself is acknowledged.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I don't have much time at the moment for a reply - God willing, later tonight, but I wanted to quickly say two things:

Romans 7:14 - - the Law is spiritual

In Galatians 4 Paul calls Genesis 16 part of "the Law" and explains that they should be understood as allegory for spiritual things.
Nothing in the text of Genesis 16 itself tells us this is an allegory though, and there is no hint that they should ever be thought of as non-literal events.
So where did Paul get the idea that Genesis 16 should be understood as allegory for the things of Christ? If he had followed your advice for interpretation, Galatians 4 would never have been written

And so I have an inescapable conclusion, that these things are absolutely literal events and practical commands, and they are ALSO spiritual allegories and sayings.

 

[marks]

So where did Paul get the idea that Genesis 16 should be understood as allegory for the things of Christ? If he had followed your advice for interpretation, Galatians 4 would never have been written

Where indeed? And when should we obtain our ideas?

I think that Jesus taught this to Paul, and I believe Paul faithfully gave us Jesus' teachings. That was something between Paul and Jesus. So we have Paul's writings, including this. Does that mean we should seek allegorical meanings to all Scriptures? Does that mean that allegorical meaning that we may see should be considered on the same level as what Jesus taught to Paul?

The Holy Spirit DOES teach us, tell us things we didn't know.

I think for me when something strikes me as allegorical, if the meaning I'm taking away doesn't somehow remove the meaning of the verse as plain language, if the meaning agrees with the balance of Scripture, I consider that perhaps God is telling me something, or reinforcing something. And I consider that more something just for me, and not as a foundation for doctrine, though I might go back to that to illustrate a doctrine plainly taught elsewhere.

But I think the big difference is when Paul calls something an allegory, for me it carries the weight of divine inspiration. When I call something an allegory, it does not.

Much love!

 

[marks]

“you shall not steal” you said is “one practical principle upon which to base human interaction.” Ok, which is pretty straightforward yea? But is it a bad thing to point out there is also …another stealing that seldom gets mentioned?

“therefore, I am against the prophets declares the LORD, “who steal My words from each other.” “behold, I am against those who have prophesied false dreams,” declares the Lord, “and related them and led My people astray by their falsehoods; yet I did not send them or command them, nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit,” declares the LORD. Jeremiah 23:30-32

Paul speaks in this wise where he says, don't steal, but instead work with your hands so you'll have enough, and more to give away.

Your example, stealing the Bread of Life from others through false words and false dreams. Putting something else out there that isn't true, as a snare, that captures and kills, robbing them of life. Robbing them of Christ. Robbing them of the fulness assurance of His love.

Yes, I think there is a lot being stolen.

Thou shalt not steal, combined with Paul's admonition, gives us, I think, a divine principle we can use for maybe everything. Are we taking, or are we giving? Are we thinking if we don't take, no one will give to us? Trusting Jesus' love and power answers this, as it does everything.

Simplicity!

And this about robbing people of the benefit of true words, we can also rob others of the love God's given to them through us by failing to live that love toward them, for whatever petty reason we have.

I think this is something that should remain in our minds.

Much love!

 

[marks]

And so I have an inescapable conclusion, that these things are absolutely literal events and practical commands, and they are ALSO spiritual allegories and sayings.

There's another one I've noticed.

Exodus 20:7 KJV
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

If you take the name Christian in vain, that is, empty, without meaning, the Lord will not hold you guiltless, that is, will not impute righteousness to you.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

But if you look spiritually with you Father being the Lord and you mother being New Jerusalem, what can we learn from this verse?

In Considering Father…Hebrews 12:6-11.

He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently. Proverbs 13:24

For those whom the LORD loves He disciplines, And He scourges every son whom he receives.
It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as sons; for what son is there when [his] father does not discipline.
But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits and live?

for they disciplined us for a short time
As seemed best to them
but He [disciplines] for [our] good, so that we may share His holiness. Hebrews 12:6-11