Children... Ephesians 6

[FHII]

I have been spending a lot of time in this chapter recently. It gets credit and press for describing the armour of God, which is amazing, of course! But there are other things to consider in this chapter:


Ephesians 6:1-3 KJV
Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. [2] Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise [3] That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Its funny... It almost sounds like a threat! "Hey kids: do what your parents say or they will take you out!" As an 1980's child, I remember Bill Cosby's comedy routine where he said, "I brought you into this world and I can take you out!"

It ain't as funny anymore given Cosby's sick behavior. But back then, it was funny because we had a healthy fear of parents and authority.

I still get a chuckle out of this verse, but I don't think it was Paul's first intention to make a joke.

Parents know stuff, even if they have been stupid all their lives. If a child truly understands this, they will listen to their parents. They will probably be financially secure in their age, emotionally stable, healthy and and so forth.

Anyone disagree?

But if you look spiritually with you Father being the Lord and you mother being New Jerusalem, what can we learn from this verse?

 

[Rita]

I have just been looking at that verse and I suddenly realise that ‘ obey your parents in the Lord ‘ is not referring to your earthy mother and father. Paul says to ‘ Honour our mother and father ‘. If he was talking about them in the first part he would have surely used the same words. Also he adds ‘ in the Lord ‘.
When we come to faith we often need mentors, people who are spiritual mature , people who spiritually have authority. Paul is telling us to obey them while we grow.
Now in many cases that may be our parents, it wasn’t in my case. So the first part is in a spiritual context. He doesn’t say obey your parents, but honour them. Show respect, which in turn would lead to positive things.
I remember growing up hearing the phrase ‘ respect your elders ‘ …it was never ‘ obey your elders ‘.
I have often wondered my the armour is at the end of the chapter….well Paul lays down all the different relationships and how we need to respond , then he gives us the ‘ how ‘.
At least that’s how I see it xx

 

[post]

I have been spending a lot of time in this chapter recently. It gets credit and press for describing the armour of God, which is amazing, of course! But there are other things to consider in this chapter:


Ephesians 6:1-3 KJV
Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. [2] Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise [3] That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Its funny... It almost sounds like a threat! "Hey kids: do what your parents say or they will take you out!" As an 1980's child, I remember Bill Cosby's comedy routine where he said, "I brought you into this world and I can take you out!"

It ain't as funny anymore given Cosby's sick behavior. But back then, it was funny because we had a healthy fear of parents and authority.

I still get a chuckle out of this verse, but I don't think it was Paul's first intention to make a joke.

Parents know stuff, even if they have been stupid all their lives. If a child truly understands this, they will listen to their parents. They will probably be financially secure in their age, emotionally stable, healthy and and so forth.

Anyone disagree?

But if you look spiritually with you Father being the Lord and you mother being New Jerusalem, what can we learn from this verse?

the commandment with the promise is about Jesus:


Ecclesiastes 12: remember your Creator in the days of your youth -- He gives eternal life to those who believe Him, and put their trust in Him
Colossians 1:16 - all things are created by Christ Jesus. He is God
John 14:15 - if you love Him, honor Him: repent, and be conformed to His will, doing His commands
John 6:40 - this is His will, that all those who put their trust in Him have eternal life (('live long' ad absurdum))

 

[charity]

I have been spending a lot of time in this chapter recently. It gets credit and press for describing the armour of God, which is amazing, of course! But there are other things to consider in this chapter:

Ephesians 6:1-3 KJV
Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. [2] Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise [3] That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Its funny... It almost sounds like a threat! "Hey kids: do what your parents say or they will take you out!" As an 1980's child, I remember Bill Cosby's comedy routine where he said, "I brought you into this world and I can take you out!"

It ain't as funny anymore given Cosby's sick behavior. But back then, it was funny because we had a healthy fear of parents and authority.

I still get a chuckle out of this verse, but I don't think it was Paul's first intention to make a joke.

Parents know stuff, even if they have been stupid all their lives. If a child truly understands this, they will listen to their parents. They will probably be financially secure in their age, emotionally stable, healthy and and so forth.

Anyone disagree?

But if you look spiritually with you Father being the Lord and you mother being New Jerusalem, what can we learn from this verse?

Hello there, @FHII,

I don't see the need to spiritualise this, for the instruction of a Father and Mother is such that will protect the child from the dangers this world has in store for them. For example, I taught my children to look up and down the road and back again, to listen and look carefully before crossing: to ensure their safety, as per the green cross code ; to use the crossing when there was one, and not to talk to strangers or accept lifts from other than family members. Good advice, yes? Which would ensure that they lived to see another day.

Though in the day when this instruction was given, and in the environment they lived in then, the dangers would have been many, and some potentially lethal: and as @post referred to the commandments: the commandments God gave, were given to ensure their safety too on a purely practical level, in regard to food and personal hygiene, and their dealings with their fellow men.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Our Lord and Head.
Chris

PS: Wasn't Cosby exonerated?

 

[charity]

the commandment with the promise is about Jesus:

Ecclesiastes 12: remember your Creator in the days of your youth - He gives eternal life to those who believe Him, and put their trust in Him
Colossians 1:16 - all things are created by Christ Jesus. He is God
John 14:15 - if you love Him, honor Him: repent, and be conformed to His will, doing His commands
John 6:40 - this is His will, that all those who put their trust in Him have eternal life ('live long' ad absurdum)

'Honour thy father and mother;
(which is the first commandment with promise )
That it may be well with thee,
and thou mayest live long on the earth.'
(Eph 6:2-3)

Hello @post

Would you please explain what you mean when you say that the commandment with promise is about Jesus? That commandment being Exodus 20:12, but quoted by Paul in Ephesians 6:2-3.

Thank you
--------------------------------------

* This was indeed the first commandment with promise given at Sinai.

'And God spake all these words, saying, "I am the LORD thy God,
which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
1) Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
2) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,

or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:
for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children
unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me,
and keep my commandments.​

3) Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain;

for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.​

4) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:
in it thou shalt not do any work,
thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant,
nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth,
the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day:
wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.​

5) Honour thy father and thy mother:

that thy days may be long upon the land
which the LORD thy God giveth thee.​

6) Thou shalt not kill.
7) Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8) Thou shalt not steal.
9) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house,

thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant,
nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.​

* @FHII:- see also Exodus 21:15; Exodus 21:17, which shows the penalty for smiting or cursing a parent, which is DEATH - Good reason to honour your Father and Mother, yes?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I don't see the need to spiritualise this,

I love your contributions @charity …but to be honest this “I don’t see the need to spiritualise this” makes me want to scream out loud. One reason is it leaves me scratching my head every single time when the same could possibly be said that it is the lack of spiritualizing that leads to all kinds of concerns for example on the topic at hand…if I beat my kid with a rod I will deliver that kid from hell or death(whichever translation is read) the. becomes abuse in God said: that kid will not die …because the word says that. Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me? deliver us from evil?

also if you look up threads on this topic …almost all will be directly focused on our earthly parents. Here Is a refreshing change

But if you look spiritually with you Father being the Lord and you mother being New Jerusalem, what can we learn from this verse?

refreshing in …here for a moment …let us take the focus off our earthly parents as Father and Mother and consider: what can we learn from this verse? “But if you look spiritually with you Father being the Lord and you mother being New Jerusalem, what can we learn from this verse?”

refreshing for a change of the same ol’ threads…Let us divert the attention to our Father in Heaven and the mother of us all New Jerusalem (which is above and free?)…how is that a bad thing to direct, lead, or shine the light of Jesus Christ towards the Father and home?

this thread could go one of two ways:
“But if you look spiritually with you Father being the Lord and you mother being New Jerusalem, what can we learn from this verse?”
or ^that will instantly get shut down and taken over where it will turn into the same mundane debates and topics with no “what can we learn from verse”… which could be edifying and refreshing yea?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This was indeed the first commandment with promise

the first commandment “with promise”?
1 John 2:23-25 Whosoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: (but) he that acknowledges the Son has the Father also. [24] Let that therefore abide in you, which you have heard from the beginning. If that which you have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, you also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. [25] And this is the promise that he has promised us, even eternal life.

the first commandment with promise Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

The Promised seed…?
The promised land…?
Have you (did you) receive the promise …?
have you received the Spirit of promise …?(Acts 19:2-5) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Spirit.

And this is the promise that he has promised us, even …prolonged days, long life, fruitfulness, deliverance from death and hell beneath into Life …the continuation of not many seeds but of one seed which ‘seed’ is Christ.
Proverbs 23:14: You shall strike him with the rod And rescue his soul from Sheol.

Galatians 3:2-4 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? [4] Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

 

[Faithbuilders]

Ephesians 6:1-3 KJV
Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. [2] Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise [3] That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Its funny... It almost sounds like a threat! "Hey kids: do what your parents say or they will take you out!"

There are two sides to every coin, the blessing side, and the curse side. Paul, by unction of the Holy Spirit brought forth the blessing side of the coin. A promise to your obedience. But, yes, there is also the other side. Not that your parents will "take you out", no, not even that God will "take you out." But rather that your own sin will shorten your life! "For the wages of sin in death!" (and yes, for those that might argue that means spiritual death, it actually means both - when Adam sinned, his spirit died, but his body also started dieing.)

That, however, brings up another thought.... The average life these days of people, is about 80-100 years old; the evil people that dishonor parents are still living that long..... so, if they are living to 100, and the above scripture, (among others) indicate that the wicked lives are to be cut short. Then should not those that are righteous live noticeably longer!?! I believe they should.

 

[charity]

I love your contributions @charity …but to be honest this “I don’t see the need to spiritualise this” makes me want to scream out loud. One reason is it leaves me scratching my head every single time when the same could possibly be said that it is the lack of spiritualizing that leads to all kinds of concerns for example on the topic at hand…if I beat my kid with a rod I will deliver that kid from hell or death(whichever translation is read) the. becomes abuse in God said: that kid will not die …because the word says that. Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me? deliver us from evil?

also if you look up threads on this topic …almost all will be directly focused on our earthly parents. Here Is a refreshing change

refreshing in …here for a moment …let us take the focus off our earthly parents as Father and Mother and consider: what can we learn from this verse? “But if you look spiritually with you Father being the Lord and you mother being New Jerusalem, what can we learn from this verse?”

refreshing for a change of the same ol’ threads…Let us divert the attention to our Father in Heaven and the mother of us all New Jerusalem (which is above and free?)…how is that a bad thing to direct, lead, or shine the light of Jesus Christ towards the Father and home?

this thread could go one of two ways:
“But if you look spiritually with you Father being the Lord and you mother being New Jerusalem, what can we learn from this verse?”
or ^that will instantly get shut down and taken over where it will turn into the same mundane debates and topics with no “what can we learn from verse”… which could be edifying and refreshing yea?

Hello @VictoryinJesus,

I am sorry to have made you want to scream. But where Paul is obviously giving practical instruction in regard to manner of life, why should we seek to impose another meaning upon it?

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

the first commandment “with promise”?
1 John 2:23-25 Whosoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: (but) he that acknowledges the Son has the Father also. [24] Let that therefore abide in you, which you have heard from the beginning. If that which you have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, you also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. [25] And this is the promise that he has promised us, even eternal life.

the first commandment with promise Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

The Promised seed…?
The promised land…?
Have you (did you) receive the promise …?
have you received the Spirit of promise …?(Acts 19:2-5) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Spirit.

And this is the promise that he has promised us, even …prolonged days, long life, fruitfulness, deliverance from death and hell beneath into Life …the continuation of not many seeds but of one seed which ‘seed’ is Christ.
Proverbs 23:14: You shall strike him with the rod And rescue his soul from Sheol.

Galatians 3:2-4 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? [4] Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

'Honour thy father and thy mother:
that thy days may be long upon the land
which the LORD thy God giveth thee.'
(Exodus 20:12)

Hello @VictoryinJesus,

The verse (above) was the first commandment that had a promise attached to it. That cannot be denied.

What you have done is given examples of further Scriptures, which have a promise attached. That is not spiritualising, but an extension of the subject, which can only be edifying, and not alter in any way the intention of Paul in writing what he did to the Ephesian believers.

I think you may have misunderstood what I meant by the word, 'spiritualising'.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[marks]

Parents know stuff, even if they have been stupid all their lives. If a child truly understands this, they will listen to their parents. They will probably be financially secure in their age, emotionally stable, healthy and and so forth.

Anyone disagree?

I do. You haven't met my parents.

But I get what you are saying, and it's worth saying!

Much love!

 

[marks]

* @FHII:- see also Exodus 21:15; Exodus 21:17, which shows the penalty for smiting or cursing a parent, which is DEATH - Good reason to honour your Father and Mother, yes?

I guess that could have an effect on your longevity.

Much love!

 

[farouk]

I do. You haven't met my parents.

But I get what you are saying, and it's worth saying!

Much love!

@marks God bless them. Perhaps they are strict?

 

[marks]

@marks God bless them. Perhaps they are strict?

Just not good parents.

Much love!

 

[farouk]

Just not good parents.

Much love!

@marks PS: Got your pm; so no need to respond to the post on the other thread...

 

[farouk]

the first commandment “with promise”?
1 John 2:23-25 Whosoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: (but) he that acknowledges the Son has the Father also. [24] Let that therefore abide in you, which you have heard from the beginning. If that which you have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, you also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. [25] And this is the promise that he has promised us, even eternal life.

the first commandment with promise Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

The Promised seed…?
The promised land…?
Have you (did you) receive the promise …?
have you received the Spirit of promise …?(Acts 19:2-5) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Spirit.

And this is the promise that he has promised us, even …prolonged days, long life, fruitfulness, deliverance from death and hell beneath into Life …the continuation of not many seeds but of one seed which ‘seed’ is Christ.
Proverbs 23:14: You shall strike him with the rod And rescue his soul from Sheol.

Galatians 3:2-4 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? [4] Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

@VictoryinJesus Interesting that the context of the Acts 2.33 is the disciples of John, who had received the baptism of repentance but had not received all the doctrine and facts of the Gospel; they were in a special category in the transitional Apostolic period.

 

[Wrangler]

If a child truly understands this, they will listen to their parents. They will probably be financially secure in their age, emotionally stable, healthy and and so forth.

Anyone disagree?

Unless someone invokes a 'but they were abusive' exception, I doubt anyone would disagree.

IMO, if anyone is going to have respect for anyone, it is their parents - who gave you life, the very foundation of everything else. Said differently, it is the leading indicator of all manner of social ills when kids diss their parents.

Notice the 10 Commandments, God does not say to honor him but ones own parents. Profound.

I have just been looking at that verse and I suddenly realise that ‘ obey your parents in the Lord ‘ is not referring to your earthy mother and father. Paul says to ‘ Honour our mother and father ‘. If he was talking about them in the first part he would have surely used the same words. Also he adds ‘ in the Lord ‘.

I have to disagree. Comparing this verse to the 10C, "in the Lord" is compliance to the letter in the Spirit God intended.

But if you look spiritually with you Father being the Lord and you mother being New Jerusalem, what can we learn from this verse?

I'm reminded of the great beatitudes of Philippians 4:8 'whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.' Just b/c honoring ones parents is first, it does not mean last or only.

IMO, beyond faith & love, the heart of what it means to have a relationship with God is humility and gratitude. The more humble and grateful one is, the more they can honor others, including our Lord and New Jerusalem. In my personal life, I'm dealing with a stepdaughter that takes the cake in self-important sense of entitlement, totally void of humility and gratitude. Predictably, she has no relationship with me or my Father.

 

[Enoch111]

Its funny... It almost sounds like a threat!

Not a threat but a solemn warning. People speak about obedience training for dogs, but no one speaks about obedience training for children.

 

[FHII]

I have just been looking at that verse and I suddenly realise that ‘ obey your parents in the Lord ‘ is not referring to your earthy mother and father

YES! I saw that too! This is why I added the spiritual idea. Our spiritual Father is The Father and Jesus. Our spiritual mother is New Jerusalem.

 

[FHII]

I don't see the need to spiritualise this, for the instruction of a Father and Mother is such that will protect the child from the dangers this world has in store for them

I see a need to do so, but that does not take away from the natural advice given.