Children... Ephesians 6

[FHII]

I do. You haven't met my parents.

But I get what you are saying, and it's worth saying!

Much love!

I understand... Not all the Patriarchs had Godly parents. When its a matter of obeying God or your parents: obey God.

 

[FHII]

@FHII:- see also Exodus 21:15; Exodus 21:17, which shows the penalty for smiting or cursing a parent, which is DEATH - Good reason to honour your Father and Mother, yes?

Yep, Chris! I thought of that verse when making the post. I didn't go into it for brevity sake... But I hoped someone would bring it up.

 

[FHII]

Not a threat but a solemn warning. People speak about obedience training for dogs, but no one speaks about obedience training for children.

Yeah... Not anymore. Try to give children obedient training might result in a call from the SS (social services).

 

[Enoch111]

Yeah... Not anymore. Try to give children obedient training might result in a call from the SS (social services).

Make that the Gestapo of America and Canada. The Schutzstaffel (SS) of Nazi Germany was a major paramilitary organization under Hitler, and was responsible for the Holocaust and other atrocities. Today's COVID Nazis are on the same track of genocide, but it is not restricted only to Jews. All the citizens of the Western world are now targeted, especially the children. I am still waiting for Nuremberg 2.0, when all these criminals will be taken to Nuremberg, Germany, and hanged.

 

[marks]

I understand... Not all the Patriarchs had Godly parents. When its a matter of obeying God or your parents: obey God.

Not mention . . . raise a child in the way he should go, and when he gets older he won't depart from it, that works the other way too. Raise a child with fear, and they will be afraid. Raise them with poverty and they live impoverished. Raise them with licentiousness, and they have self-control issues.

Or like my parents, mostly neglect, and attention was mostly negative, so we preferred the neglect.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I am still waiting for Nuremberg 2.0, when all these criminals will be taken to Nuremberg, Germany, and hanged.

Here's hoping!!

 

[post]

Hello @post

Would you please explain what you mean when you say that the commandment with promise is about Jesus?

happily =]

all scripture is about Him -- He said so. He commanded that we search it and find it testifying of Him. when He opened the understanding of His apostles, He showed them how everything from Moses through the prophets was speaking of Him, of His person and the things which he would do and would be done unto Him.
so, i don't know **exactly** what you mean by 'spiritualizing' the text, but in a very real sense God explained to us that the text is spiritual and that it is meant to be understood as both literal events and allegorical revelations of Him. Galatians 4 is an exemplar par excellence of how scripture is to be understood.


so ask the questions, what is honor, who is your father, who is your mother, what is long life, what is the land that is promised?
not according to human definition, but divine definition. search the scripture; what does God call life, what does God call Father, what does God call inheritance, what does God call honor?
when you find the answers to these, you will see that these things are all testifying of Him. of salvation, of repentance, of faith, of love, of redemption and unity in Him.

can you see it?
this is the intent of scripture -- what is recorded and is not recorded is recorded or not recorded for the sake of revealing the person and work of God: of Christ, Who is the invisible God made visible. The Word - revealed and testified of in the word.

shall i go on? i don't want to patronize you, but i want you to have open eyes seeing His glory when you look at these texts. i'll give you lists of verses if that's what you need, but my hope is that they are already hidden in your heart with the Truth and you will recognize them for what they are =]

 

[marks]

can you see it?

I never really thought about that passage that way, but yes, that's a good spiritual application.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

his “I don’t see the need to spiritualise this” makes me want to scream out loud.

This is because you are demanding the Word of God be more than it is. In some places, the Bible is very practical. "You shall not steal" is just one practical principle upon which to base human interaction.

Of course, people for centuries have read into such plain words spiritulization. While, I agree that the Bible is not merely figurative, but extremely figurative, there are also straight forward practical advice, like you should carry a weapon, not so-sign a loan, mind your own business, don't be lazy, put God first, etc.

 

[post]

I never really thought about that passage that way, but yes, that's a good spiritual application.

Much love!

i hadn't either, but when i read the OP, i saw it immediately ♥

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This is because you are demanding the Word of God be more than it is. In some places, the Bible is very practical. "You shall not steal" is just one practical principle upon which to base human interaction.

“you shall not steal” you said is “one practical principle upon which to base human interaction.” Ok, which is pretty straightforward yea? But is it a bad thing to point out there is also …another stealing that seldom gets mentioned?

“therefore, I am against the prophets declares the LORD, “who steal My words from each other.” “behold, I am against those who have prophesied false dreams,” declares the Lord, “and related them and led My people astray by their falsehoods; yet I did not send them or command them, nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit,” declares the LORD. Jeremiah 23:30-32

the kjv says “they use their tongues, and say, He(God) saith.” Yet…nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit.

“You shall love thy neighbor as thyself.” Consider with “who steal My words from each other.”

or Leviticus 19:11 You shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another. With the above “who steal the words of the Lord” “who use their tongues and say, He saith.”
“Neither deal falsely” with “their falsehoods” they led his people astray …lie not one to another?

Ephesians 4:28-29 He who steals must steal no longer, but rather he must labour,(how?)performing with his own hands what is good(what is good?), so he will have something to share with one in need. Let no unwholesome word proceed from you mouth, but only such [a word] as is good for edification according to the need (of the moment) so it will give Grace to those who hear.
What is “do not steal” from your neighbor? You said “one practical principle” remember though the above from Jeremiah nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit…

Is there benefit in…edification, so it will give Grace? “but only such [a word] as is good for edification according to the need (of the moment) so it will give Grace (benefit?) to those who hear.

Lastly from kjv: they use their tongues and say, He saith. “for we are not like many peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.

point is, you said practical application …could a practical application be: to steal His words from another, with falsehoods and lies be just as severe as any other form of stealing?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The verse (above) was the first commandment that had a promise attached to it. That cannot be denied.

What is the promise?

 

[charity]

“you shall not steal” you said is “one practical principle upon which to base human interaction.” Ok, which is pretty straightforward yea? But is it a bad thing to point out there is also …another stealing that seldom gets mentioned?

“therefore, I am against the prophets declares the LORD, “who steal My words from each other.” “behold, I am against those who have prophesied false dreams,” declares the Lord, “and related them and led My people astray by their falsehoods; yet I did not send them or command them, nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit,” declares the LORD. Jeremiah 23:30-32

the kjv says “they use their tongues, and say, He(God) saith.” Yet…nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit.

“You shall love thy neighbor as thyself.” Consider with “who steal My words from each other.”

or Leviticus 19:11 You shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another. With the above “who steal the words of the Lord” “who use their tongues and say, He saith.”
“Neither deal falsely” with “their falsehoods” they led his people astray …lie not one to another?

Ephesians 4:28-29 He who steals must steal no longer, but rather he must labour,(how?) performing with his own hands what is good(what is good?), so he will have something to share with one in need. Let no unwholesome word proceed from you mouth, but only such [a word] as is good for edification according to the need (of the moment) so it will give Grace to those who hear.
What is “do not steal” from your neighbor? You said “one practical principle” remember though the above from Jeremiah nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit…

Is there benefit in…edification, so it will give Grace? “but only such [a word] as is good for edification according to the need (of the moment) so it will give Grace (benefit?) to those who hear.

Lastly from kjv: they use their tongues and say, He saith. “for we are not like many peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.

point is, you said practical application …could a practical application be: to steal His words from another, with falsehoods and lies be just as severe as any other form of stealing?

Hi there, @VictoryinJesus,

I found this interesting.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

What is the promise?

'Honour thy father and thy mother:
that thy days may be long upon the land
which the LORD thy God giveth thee.'
(Exo 20:12)

Hi @VictoryinJesus

The application Paul makes of this is,

'Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise )
That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
(Eph 6:1-3)

All the commandments were for the welfare of those to whom they were given, weren't they? God's desire was that it would be well with them, and that they would live long in the land that He had given them. For if this particular commandment were to be disobeyed, then death would be the outcome, as can be seen in Exodus 21:15, ' And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.' and in, Exodus 21:17, 'And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.'

The other difference between Exodus 20:12 and Paul's application of it in Ephesians 4:1-3, is made because it was being said to a different audience. For in Exodus the command and promise were being made to the Children of Israel and it was the land that God had given to them that was being referred to. Whereas in Paul's words, it is the earth at large that is in mind, for his hearers were both Jew and Gentile, whose range was worldwide, and not confined to the land of Israel. Little detail, yes, but I find it interesting.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise )
That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

when considering the first commandment with promise “that it may be well with thee, and thou may live long on the earth” …I think of John 10:10 Lexicon: "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

And also “it is well” …



But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness (God) dwells. 2 Peter 3:13

 

[Wrangler]

point is, you said practical application …could a practical application be: to steal His words from another, with falsehoods and lies be just as severe as any other form of stealing?

Of course, we have words for stealing others words, such as plagiarism and copyright infringement but that has nothing to do with you reading into text spiritual dimensions that are not there.

In the other hand, my pastor said this year that nothing is secular. It’s a bit of Circular Reasoning.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Of course, we have words for stealing others words, such as plagiarism and copyright infringement but that has nothing to do with you reading into text spiritual dimensions that are not there.

In the other hand, my pastor said this year that nothing is secular. It’s a bit of Circular Reasoning.

only meant there can be more than one application therefore something can be learned …if our mind is not so set there is only one application and any other is against that one.

 

[charity]

Of course, we have words for stealing others words, such as plagiarism and copyright infringement but that has nothing to do with you reading into text spiritual dimensions that are not there.

In the other hand, my pastor said this year that nothing is secular. It’s a bit of Circular Reasoning.

Hi @Wrangler,

I guess your Pastor was right in saying that for the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, nothing is secular: for all aspects of life are influenced by our knowledge of Him, and of the Father through Him, in the Spirit isn't it. It is we who make this distinction between secular and Divine, and in doing so create chinks in our armour by which the enemy of our souls can infiltrate and have opportunity to influence, and draw us away into the world and it's ways.

Just thoughts.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Brakelite]

Not a threat but a solemn warning. People speak about obedience training for dogs, but no one speaks about obedience training for children.

Why is it either a threat or a warning? I see it as a promise of love and faithfulness. A promise to extend life as we honor those who gave us life. I find it sad that such a commandment which in Deuteronomy were described as being "for our good always", is used as a vehicle for mischaracterising the God who gave that commandment. A God who is looking for an excuse to kill children? Really?

 

[Brakelite]

Skeptics, those looking for reasons to reject the Bible, often point to some strong words of God that appear in the Old Testament. And here we have Christians giving the worse perspective upon God in the context of His law. The idea is that the God of the Old Testament was harsh, vindictive, and mean-spirited, especially in contrast to Jesus. This isn’t a new argument, but it’s as flawed now as it was when first promoted many centuries ago.
Again and again, the Old Testament presents the Lord as loving His ancient people Israel and wanting only what is best for them. And this love appears powerfully in the book of Deuteronomy.
Read Deuteronomy 10:1–15. What is the immediate context of these verses, and what do they teach us about how God felt toward His people, even after their sin? What do they teach us, indeed, about grace?
God’s grace and love for Israel exudes from these texts. Notice, particularly, verses 12 and 13. They are really one long sentence, a question, and the question is simple: What am I, the Lord, asking you to do but the following . . . walk in My ways, love Me, serve Me, and keep My statutes for your own good?
All through the Hebrew in these verses the words for “your” and “you” are in singular form. Though God certainly is speaking to the nation as a whole, and us, what good will His words do if the people, each one individually, don’t obey them? The whole is only as good as the sum of the parts. The Lord was speaking one-to-one, individually, to Israel as a nation.
We can’t forget, either, the end of verse 13: keep these things letov lak, that is, “for your good.” In other words, God is commanding the people to obey because it is in their best interest to do so. God made them, God sustains them, God knows what is best for them, and He wants what’s best for them. Obedience to His law, to His Ten Commandments, can work only to their benefit.
The law often has been compared to a hedge, a wall of protection, and by staying within that wall, God’s followers are protected from a raft of evils that otherwise would overtake and destroy them. In short, out of love for His people, God gave them His law, and obedience to His law would be “for your good.”