Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey

[David in NJ]

Seems that biblical understanding has more to do with religious upbringing and environment than the content of the Bible.

I imagine that a young Catholic learns that Mary is the Mother of God based on the statement of the angel,
“Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” - Luke 1:28 NIV

I was raised Protestant, so I am only guessing at how that actually happens in Catholicism.
But obviously an environment with statues of Mary and Rosary beads has a lot of impact on the meaning.
This creates a religious preconception.

As a Protestant, we read past that statement without dwelling on it much.
To us, it was a story about Jesus and his earthly mother. This also creates a religious preconception.

As the young person, whether Catholic or Protestant, matures in their religious upbringing,
these compounded preconceptions form a doctrinal understanding. A basis to work from; a point of view.

When this maturing person hears something outside the realm of their religious preconception, it strikes them as wrong.

Apologetics are there to bolster one's own religious preconceptions. They have theirs, and you have yours.
This is where the battle lines are drawn. "We believe such and so, because..."

It's easy to identify a religious cult. They meet in the church across the street from your church.
And they feel the same way about you. --- Where does this leave us?

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey

So then the LORD Jesus was a 'cult leader' promoting His own religious experiences to His Disciples.................???

 

[David in NJ]

“By night on my bed I sought him whom my soul loveth: I sought him, but I found him not.

I will rise now, and go about the city in the streets, and in the broad ways I will seek him whom my soul loveth: I sought him, but I found him not.

The watchmen that go about the city found me: to whom I said, Saw ye him whom my soul loveth? {watchmen? hmmm = to pastors of various churches? Do any of them really know how and where to find the Bridegroom?}

It was but a little that I passed from them, but I found him whom my soul loveth: I held him, and would not let him go, until I had brought him into my mother's house, and into the chamber of her that conceived me.” Song 3:1-4

Where is my mother's house? Who is my mother?

“There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number. [all of the various

My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.” Song 6:8-9


Is "my dove" equal to the Bride of Christ?

The 'DOVE' is symbolic of the HOLY SPIRIT which completes the GOSPEL and the BRIDE.

The BRIDE must be "bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh"...................."the Two become ONE and are no longer two."

ALL THREE MUST BE or one is full of baloney.................

 

[Nancy]

In my own Bible in pencil I indicate when the Bride is speaking and when Jesus [the Bridegroom] is speaking and when 'others' are speaking. For example: Chap 1:2 the Bride begins speaking, Ch 1:8 Jesus begins speaking, Ch 1:12 the Bride speaks again... and so forth.

I have mentioned on this forum in the past, but not many were interested or understood or agreed. God gives the increase!

That is my next book to study. I will also use your model also. There is lot's of duality in the bible IMHO.

 

[amadeus]

Perhaps.
But who are the concubines; and does this scripture describe premarital sex?
She took him to where her mother had conceived her? Why? (see vs 4)

Consider first how the culture of that time treated women. Did not even David a man after God's own heart have more than one wife? This is not to say that it is right or the best way but sometimes in order to understand what God is saying now, we may need to understand what was happening among men then. Look at the churches called Christian today. How many of them are full of people we might describe as Bride material? How many of them are virgin in their heart... and so forth?

Then again, I do not have all of the answers to every question a man may ask about God and God's Way. We are still living for Him by faith, which is not complete knowledge, is it?

 

[St. SteVen]

So then the LORD Jesus was a 'cult leader' promoting His own religious experiences to His Disciples.................???

Not sure how you got that from my post, but that is how Jesus was viewed by the orthodoxy of his day.

Acts 5:36-39 NIV
Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37 After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

 

[David in NJ]

Not sure how you got that from my post, but that is how Jesus was viewed by the orthodoxy of his day.

Acts 5:36-39 NIV
Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37 After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

YES, Jesus was viewed with disdain by those who viewed their 'doctrine' as 'authentic' against that which Jesus presented.

Which is why i asked the question, since you said "Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey".

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus was viewed with disdain by those who viewed their 'doctrine' as 'authentic' against that which Jesus presented.

The doctrine of Israel was not authentic?

 

[David in NJ]

The doctrine of Israel was not authentic?

Those who were in control of the Temple believed that they had the authentic version of God's righteousness.

Which is why they had the Messiah of Israel murdered.

Therefore, the doctrine of those religious leaders was 'compromised'.

 

[amigo de christo]

Huh, what a good question! Song of Solomon is not a book I have paid much attention to yet, it IS in the bible. I had better brush up!

Yep it is the song of solomon .

 

[amigo de christo]

YES, Jesus was viewed with disdain by those who viewed their 'doctrine' as 'authentic' against that which Jesus presented.

Which is why i asked the question, since you said "Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey".

JESUS exposed their hyprocrisy big time .
They often claimed to follow MOSES ,
Yet JESUS told them had you really BELIEVED MOSES you would have BELIEVED ME , FOR HE WROTE OF ME .
Often folks might hold the writings of truth , BUT NEVER KNOW THEM NOR HE WHO INSPIRED THEM .
AND I SEE this a lot . Just think for a second .
THE RCC actually did hold onto the canon . It had scribes rewriting it faithfully .
SO TOO with the jews . THEY also did this .
YET THE LEADERS of the people SURE WERE NOT FOLLOWING IT , only parts
and the leaders sure did not know HE who had inspired the very scrips either .
JESUS truly exposed them . TRUTH DOES THAT .
THEY DIDNT LIKE JESUS VERY MUCH , WELL they dont like us either .
The harlot has killed before , mark my words SHE SHALL AGAIN . Blood is coming for the true lambs and world wide too .
Blood has always come against the saints through all ages
JUST as Earthly Jerusalem had become a den of thieves
SOO to has many corrupted and turned christanity into a den of thieves .
NOW for all of this the wicked will not go unpunished . BUT GOD will be the one to deliver the wrath against them .
The Harlot sleeps not , she prepares the world and the religoins to unite as one
in the final hour of the greatest tribulation to come against the saints . BUT GOD IS WITH THE LAMBS MY FRIEND .
Many will be persecuted , many killed , but he who endures unto the end the same shall be saved .

 

[David in NJ]

JESUS exposed their hyprocrisy big time .
They often claimed to follow MOSES ,
Yet JESUS told them had you really BELIEVED MOSES you would have BELIEVED ME , FOR HE WROTE OF ME .
Often folks might hold the writings of truth , BUT NEVER KNOW THEM NOR HE WHO INSPIRED THEM .
AND I SEE this a lot . Just think for a second .
THE RCC actually did hold onto the canon . It had scribes rewriting it faithfully .
SO TOO with the jews . THEY also did this .
YET THE LEADERS of the people SURE WERE NOT FOLLOWING IT , only parts
and the leaders sure did not know HE who had inspired the very scrips either .
JESUS truly exposed them . TRUTH DOES THAT .
THEY DIDNT LIKE JESUS VERY MUCH , WELL they dont like us either .
The harlot has killed before , mark my words SHE SHALL AGAIN . Blood is coming for the true lambs and world wide too .
Blood has always come against the saints through all ages
JUST as Earthly Jerusalem had become a den of thieves
SOO to has many corrupted and turned christanity into a den of thieves .
NOW for all of this the wicked will not go unpunished . BUT GOD will be the one to deliver the wrath against them .
The Harlot sleeps not , she prepares the world and the religoins to unite as one
in the final hour of the greatest tribulation to come against the saints . BUT GOD IS WITH THE LAMBS MY FRIEND .
Many will be persecuted , many killed , but he who endures unto the end the same shall be saved .

If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23He who hates Me hates My Father also. 24If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. 25But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’

 

[Cassandra]

In my own Bible in pencil I indicate when the Bride is speaking and when Jesus [the Bridegroom] is speaking and when 'others' are speaking. For example: Chap 1:2 the Bride begins speaking, Ch 1:8 Jesus begins speaking, Ch 1:12 the Bride speaks again... and so forth.

I have mentioned on this forum in the past, but not many were interested or understood or agreed. God gives the increase!

How do you note it ?Is it the same underline for both?

 

[amigo de christo]

If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23He who hates Me hates My Father also. 24If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. 25But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’

Stay well dug in that bible my friend . What is and what is coming against the lambs
will move swiftly when once the delusion of the inclusion has ran its course to the full . AND ITS NIGH FULL NOW .
The power of darkness will persaude them , and with one mind and with one heart
they will rise up and come against the true lambs who conformed not to the lie . ITS COMING and even now does it build
within the hearts of men gone wrong .

 

[amadeus]

How do you note it ?Is it the same underline for both?

I simply write the word: "Bride" on left or right side of paragraph [line or sentence] in which she begins a speech. When she stops speaking and someone else starts such as Bridegroom (Jesus) I simply write the word: "Jesus". In most cases in the book {Song of Solomon} one or the other of them is effectively speaking. At least once someone else is speaking and I write: "Other" [Song 8:8].

These make it easy to change or to add other notes which may seem to apply. Years ago I stopped annotating my Bibles in ink because I learned that God does lead me in different ways. Pencil is erasable.

 

[St. SteVen]

Those who were in control of the Temple believed that they had the authentic version of God's righteousness.

Which is why they had the Messiah of Israel murdered.

Therefore, the doctrine of those religious leaders was 'compromised'.

I remember Jesus confronting them about their behavior, but not about their doctrine.

On the other hand, Jesus was deconstructing the law as he went.
In the Sermon on the Mount he treats the law as hearsay.
"You have heard that it was said... But I tell you..." (5 or 6 times)

 

[David in NJ]

I remember Jesus confronting them about their behavior, but not about their doctrine.

On the other hand, Jesus was deconstructing the law as he went.
In the Sermon on the Mount he treats the law as hearsay.
"You have heard that it was said... But I tell you..." (5 or 6 times)

The Purpose of His Coming was/is to save the world from their sin/separation/condemnation.

His Purpose came to pass because of Doctrine and continues because of Doctrine.

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away." - Matthew 24:35

"Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me." - John 7:16

*** IMPORTANT MESSAGE from HEAVEN to St. Steven: ***

Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.
He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory;
but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him.
Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?”

 

[St. SteVen]

The Purpose of His Coming was/is to save the world from their sin/separation/condemnation.

Did he succeed, or fail?
Do you believe in the narrow way doctrine?
(as it might be misapplied to the afterlife)

*** IMPORTANT MESSAGE from HEAVEN to St. Steven: ***

LOL
Thanks.

Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.
He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory;
but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him.
Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?”

You found that in the Bible, terrific. Now what?
Did you solve the issue of doctrinal unity?

 

[David in NJ]

Did he succeed, or fail?
Do you believe in the narrow way doctrine?
(as it might be misapplied to the afterlife)

LOL
Thanks.

You found that in the Bible, terrific. Now what?
Did you solve the issue of doctrinal unity?

You have me busting UP here..........

Doctrinal Unity is found in two places.
a.) FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT
b.) the world

Take your pick!

 

[St. SteVen]

You have me busting UP here..........

Doctrinal Unity is found in two places.
a.) FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT
b.) the world

Take your pick!

Doctrinal unity is found in the world?

There is no agreement on doctrines of FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT.
Only doctrinal opinions.

 

[David in NJ]

Doctrinal unity is found in the world?

There is no agreement on doctrines of FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT.
Only doctrinal opinions.

"If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you."

Take your pick!