Still not an answer for 1 Co 9:27-1 Co 10, or, really, any of the other many verses I cited.
Christ Saved Us... What Do Good Works Do?
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Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
There is only ONE way to be saved and that's through Jesus Christ.
Your works don't mean nothing as far as a condition for salvation.
Legalism! The world is full of it.
You need to do this, you need to do that..
Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
Your works will not save you. End of story.
You can twist and turn scriptures about works as much as you want, there is non salvation without Christ.
You're free to respond to the response I already provided to this whenever you please.
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BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Question: When you use the term "converted", what do you mean? Is this similar to the standard theological term, "regeneration"?
God's Righteousness by Grace Through Faith
Romans 1:16 "God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith", Ro 4:12 the "footsteps of the faith of Abraham", Ro 6:14 "Sin will not make you its slave, because you are not under Law but under Grace", Ro 8:1 "There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus", Ro 14:5 "let every man be fully convinced in his own mind", Ro 14:23 "the one who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith, and whatever is not from faith is sin".
Isn't it clear that justification (both initial and ongoing--He continues to assess our lives after we're saved, He doesn't make a single judgment call at the onset of our race of faith, then lose the ability to have thoughts and judgments about our lives thereafter) results from our obtaining "God's righteousness" by faith, by "being found in Christ", "in Whom there is no sin", and that, accordingly, condemnation (which Christians are supposed to be free from), results from failure to "remain in Him" by failing to obey His twofold "Law of Faith" (ie, "faith in the Name of God's Son", and "walk by faith" or "love one another"--these are the same thing, since "faith... works by love"), such that we're not remaining clothed with God's righteousness, but, at best, "a righteousness of our own", based on our "knowledge of good and evil", and are thus rightly "condemned" upon being assessed by God?
Romans 1:16 "God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith", Ro 4:12 the "footsteps of the faith of Abraham", Ro 6:14 "Sin will not make you its slave, because you are not under Law but under Grace", Ro 8:1 "There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus", Ro 14:5 "let every man be fully convinced in his own mind", Ro 14:23 "the one who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith, and whatever is not from faith is sin".
Isn't it clear that justification (both initial and ongoing--He continues to assess our lives after we're saved, He doesn't make a single judgment call at the onset of our race of faith, then lose the ability to have thoughts and judgments about our lives thereafter) results from our obtaining "God's righteousness" by faith, by "being found in Christ", "in Whom there is no sin", and that, accordingly, condemnation (which Christians are supposed to be free from), results from failure to "remain in Him" by failing to obey His twofold "Law of Faith" (ie, "faith in the Name of God's Son", and "walk by faith" or "love one another"--these are the same thing, since "faith... works by love"), such that we're not remaining clothed with God's righteousness, but, at best, "a righteousness of our own", based on our "knowledge of good and evil", and are thus rightly "condemned" upon being assessed by God?
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A truly saved person is a “ Born Again “......the two go hand in hand..
Born Again and Saved.
John 3:7
“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”
It’s a spiritual birth......a living spiritual birth......one could never understand what this means....unless they have been “ Birthed in the Spirit “ it would be completely alien to them.....as they are still dead and in sin.
1 Corinthians 2:14
King James Version
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.Only the Holy Spirit can testify with our spirit that we are children of God.
Romans 8
King James Version
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Now....you try explaining that....to one who isn’t Born Again by the Spirit of God....LOL.
Good works follow after the rebirth/ regeneration/ Born Again.
Faith is a gift from God..
Ephesians 2:8-10New International Version (NIV) For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
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Works is to Glorify God.
We can only do that if we are Born Again.....it’s the Holy Spirit in our spirit, he is the one Glorifying God and Jesus ,in and through us.....
When I talk about Born Again....it’s not me...it’s the Holy Spirit in me Glorifying the Father.
God is Alive in Spirit....he is here right now...nothing can be hidden from his sight.....
Everything is about God to a Born Again......our flesh dies.....as His Spirit lives in us....through the power of the Holy Spirit who is in our spirit.....he is the one who is making us into the image of Jesus....
How can you do works.....without the Holy Spirit?
God doesn’t recognise anyone, unless they are Born Again!.....
We can only do that if we are Born Again.....it’s the Holy Spirit in our spirit, he is the one Glorifying God and Jesus ,in and through us.....
When I talk about Born Again....it’s not me...it’s the Holy Spirit in me Glorifying the Father.
God is Alive in Spirit....he is here right now...nothing can be hidden from his sight.....
Everything is about God to a Born Again......our flesh dies.....as His Spirit lives in us....through the power of the Holy Spirit who is in our spirit.....he is the one who is making us into the image of Jesus....
How can you do works.....without the Holy Spirit?
God doesn’t recognise anyone, unless they are Born Again!.....
When I say CONVERTED, it means more than “just BELIEVING”, which a man can believe, (even for years), and then listen to “the world” and become doubtful, or convinced otherwise, and not believe. Confess his non belief…or say nothing, and just no longer believe.
(There are some even online, of PREACHERS confessing, they NEVER believed, they NO LONGER believe, and some, even retaining their Preaching positions…!!! Astounding!)
Converted means via the thoughts in a mans heart…He believes (called the works of God)
AND calls on the Lord and “Confesses” his true hearts belief. IF that Confession BE TRUE (and Gods searches the Heart)…THEN the Power of God (Christ), WILL save that mans soul (called restore, called save, which is a restoration of the soul, BACK to “very good” as it was when God blew his Breath into that man)…in addition it means: The Lord God Changes the mans natural heart (called circumcision), and gives that new heart Gods SEED, which births that man a reborn spirit.
A mans “natural spirit” is in his heart.
A mans “reborn spirit” is in his heart.
A natural spirit is a mans Natural Truth.
A reborn spirit of Gods Seed is Supernatural Truth..ie Gods Truth.
When a man receives God Truth, he is called (born again, CONVERTED, having received the Spirit of God, ie the Spirit of Truth.)
If you have Bible online, (or hard copy), you can do a word search for CONVERTED…and in old and New Testament will find about 14 or so references and links to specific Scripture.
Also can search, born again, Spirit of Truth, etc.
Reading surrounding texts, help put things into perspective.
The Conversion is MORE than BELIEVING…
(Which “believing” is the works of God.)
The Conversion is True, natural “spirit” confession OF Belief…(you know…always conversing to the Lord God…spirit to Spirit.
(Which this is the SERVICE (called reasonable Service) a man does unto God.
This man does this Confession (with Belief ONCE, this Service ONCE, and IS thereafter, not ONLY With the Lord (as a Believer), and the Lord With Believers….that man is THEN IN the Lord, and the Lords Spirit IN that man.
(Called “IN” Christ, Called saved and born again, Called Converted, Called Healed, Called Forgiven, Called Sanctified (set apart), Called Covered (forgiven sins in that man Covered with Gods “light/power/Spirit”), Called justified (to be risen in a glorified body), called a new creature, called WHOLE, called having made a living sacrifice, Called assured. The premise behind the acronym of OSAS. It is a permanent Promise via Gods Word. He shall NEVER Leave you.
It is called that man, CAN SIN “NO MORE”, which means, the mans SIN AGAINST GOD (of having HAD disbelief) CAN NEVER AGAIN BE so IN that man. BECAUSE Gods Seed, Gods Power remains IN that man the rest of his natural life…When his body dies…it waits to be risen in glory, (a new sinless body). And his Saved soul departs his dead body, goes to heaven. And his Born Again “spirit” departs his dead body, and goes to Gods hand in Heaven….and there his Living soul and Living spirit WAIT for the day, his dead body is Raised up (holy, sinless, glorified).
While the body is Still ALIVE, he, his restored soul, his reborn spirit (also called Quickened, meaning brought into rebirth BY Gods Seed), lives IN Christ Jesus’ glorified risen body…thus called (IN Christ).
You can word search, these particular words and get a broader understanding.
When men say…I believe, I’m a Christian…that does NOT reveal the WHOLENESS of a Converted, Born Again man.
A believer, A man calling himself a Christian…
CAN stop believing, CAN stop being a Christian…and many have, many will.
A Converted man is Permanent, involving, Gods Power and Gods Seed, which no man can ‘undo”.
The Lord SHALL Judge… The QUICK and The DEAD. The Quick with Him and the Dead without Him. With…will remain with Him. Without…will remain without Him. Separating the Divided. Thus the notice of the Lords…TWO EDGED SWORD. Separating. Claiming unto Himself.
And His two edged sword is not a metal fashioned sword…it is His Word.
Remember…Jesus IS the Word of God.
Remember….Christ IS the Power of God.
Together, His MIGHT is ALL encompassing, about all.
First time, Jesus came to Earth, Humble.
Second time, Jesus returns with Power.
And just to note. His Power is Active, whether or not men can SEE Jesus’ return, and His body visible to men.
Glory to God,
Taken
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Good works glorify our Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:16)
Good works are good and profitable for people. (Titus 3:8)
Believers are created in Christ Jesus for/to do good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10)
Good works are good and profitable for people. (Titus 3:8)
Believers are created in Christ Jesus for/to do good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10)
Amen!!.....Brother......Praise God for HIS PRECIOUS HOLY SPIRIT!!
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Gonna go out on a limb here and come out in favor of feeding the hungry, providing clean water to the thirsty, offering hospitality to strangers and shelter to the homeless, clothes for the naked, caring for the sick, and visiting the imprisoned?
(Don't mind me, Mailmandan. I'm just being a smartass, as usual.)
Your Ephesians 2:10 quote pretty much supports what I had in mind, growing the Child of God into what they will be when Christ returns. It does beg the question as to which of the good work opportunities we encounter daily were prepared for us by God, since there's not enough hours in the day to do everything.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
I find one: Acts 15:3. The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. The Greek word is ἐπιστροφή (epistrophe, rhymes with apostrophe), and Strongs defines it as the turning of the Gentiles from idol worship to The One True God. The verb form ἐπιστρέφω (epistrepho) is more common and means to turn around, to turn to God, to be turned (to God), or to return (to God). It is often used in conjunction with "repentance".
I am of course familiar with the concept being "born again" (and what the theologians call "spiritual regeneration", and yet I see the effect "the flesh" (I wish Paul hadn't used that proto-gnostic term "sarx") has on believers claiming to be "born again" (such as resisting good works, to stay on topic), that I have to question the thoroughness of "conversion" in this life, which in turn leads to a disagreement with what it means to be "in Christ". But that's for another thread.
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There are some differences between the Jew and Gentile.
Anciently, the Jews (Hebrews/Tribes) believed in God and His Word…but knew not the name of His Word.
Once the Word of Gods Name was revealed…Jews were skeptical, and the Gentiles curious.
So, entering into the fold, was applicable to the Gentiles. And very early Jews who believed, then (as the Apostles were dying off) the pressure in the Synagogues of teaching Jesus the Word, Jesus the Christ, Christ the Power of God; began splitting the congregations in the Synagogues, and they settled on Rejecting Christ Jesus and revert to teaching the Law given their forefathers.
IF and When they again believe, they become RE-generated, back into the fold.
I have only mentioned BELIEF.
Jesus offered something beyond BELIEVING, which is effected by a willing man, to CONFESS, his belief (in his natural spirit, in his natural heart)…which changes everything.
Such a Confession IS that man’s willingness to PLEDGE his bodily life unto the Lord God Almighty (ONLY)…
Prior a man who BELIEVED, would receive his Salvation AFTER his physical body died.
Jesus’ Offering…(belief, confession (per Gods WAY…ie willingness, True heartful belief), and pledging his body’s life (blood), to the Lord God….IS the man being CRUCIFIED WITH Jesus’ Body. He is accounted as having already given his physical body unto Death…FOR God…
His forgiveness for having HAD disbelief IS forgiven.
His Soul IS Saved (restored).
His spirit IS Quickened (born again).
He IS Promised to be Bodily RISEN in Glory (sinless, holy).
THAT ^^ is the NEW BETTER Testament AND assuredness of being Healed, Converted, THEN, Once and Forever, Offered By, Through, Of Christ the Lord Jesus and that which any mans Offering to Take or Reject.
Heb 7
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of abetter testament.
Can a believer, believe then fall away? Yes.
Why? Because he keeps his belief, by his own will power, and at any time can be convinced by a stronger power to fall away.
(Strong power? Satan, Governing men, Rogue anti-Christ groups, threaten, war, etc.)
Can a believer, believe to the day his BODY Dies, and Become Saved THEN? Yes
Why? Typically is people who continually hear, read, the Word of God. And Avoid people and places Contrary to the Word of God.
Can a Converted man, live the rest of his natural life and EVER AGAIN, not Believe? No
Why? Because the man FREELY chose to accept the Lord Offering. His Confession was Heartfully true. The Lord Gods SPIRIT, enter and Dwell IN that man all the rest of his natural life.
So you have to ask yourself…What man or What spirit has greater POWER than God Himself, that could possibly convince that man (WITH Gods SPIRIT ‘IN’ him) to ever again deny or reject God?
Glory to God,
Taken
"in Christ" : verses like 1 Jn 2:28 prohibit me from taking a view that this union is static.
You may want to cite Ro 8, but, no, the things that can't separate us don't include our own sin: he asks "who will condemn?" but the believer CAN be "condemned" for sinning (Ro 14:23)! This is bc the union is not static, but we are called to "remain", and some don't (eg, the Galatians).
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Sorry, no clue what you are trying to convey
?
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The concept is that we "are saved by Grace".
But the point is that we are "supposed to grow" in Grace.
We grow in Grace, when we are in obedience to the reason for the Grace (Love).
But the point is that we are "supposed to grow" in Grace.
We grow in Grace, when we are in obedience to the reason for the Grace (Love).
Those not walking in good works are being disobedient to the Lord, refusing to be led by the Holy Spirit.... so they are not bearing the fruit Jesus spoke of in John 15 where Jesus said those that do not abide in Him baring fruit are cut of the vine and cast in to the fire.
The smart ones repent of walking after the flesh and obey the leading of the Holy Spirit
Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)
Romans 8:14
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
Good Work – Called to Good Works
========================
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Galatians 6:9-10
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
Hebrews 13:16
But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.
Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Matthew 7:18-20
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Romans 2:5-11
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.
1 Timothy 6:17-19
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Psalm 34:14
Depart from evil and do good; Seek peace and pursue it.
2 Timothy 2:20,21
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
James 2:14-20
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 3:13
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
1 Peter 3:10-12
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
Colossians 1:9,10
For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
2 Timothy 3:16,17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
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