Christ vs the anti-Christ: Who is winning?

[Jane_Doe22]

Better be careful who you sanction Nancy, personally, I've known some lovely kind pagans, but they were not Christians though they could speak sweetly.
Jane Doe is trying to legitamize mormonism on this forum which is to set's a trap for people to be deceived by it. It is a counterfeit that calls itself Christian & Joseph Smith was a false prophet & a seducer of many women.

@tzcho2, I have zero interest in proselytization of any kind -- giving, receiving, whatever. I have said that MANY times on this forum and in this conversation.

And if you and to go beat up the sinner Joseph Smith, go right ahead. I will readily admit that he was a sinner, like every other man on the face of this Earth. Go right ahead.

 

[Nancy]

Better be careful who you sanction Nancy, personally, I've known some lovely kind pagans, but they were not Christians though they could speak sweetly.
Jane Doe is trying to legitamize mormonism on this forum which is to set's a trap for people to be deceived by it. It is a counterfeit that calls itself Christian & Joseph Smith was a false prophet & a seducer of many women.

I do not see her proselytizing at all. And, as far as Joseph Smith, is concerned I care not. No, I do not believe in many of their doctrines but then, neither do I believe every doctrine in my own faith. We are not here to judge, I have found that out big time last summer when I was homebound for 10 weeks. God will judge us on core belief doctrines. He looks to the heart of the person, not their denomination. There is so much judging on here.
I thank you for your "warning" but, I don't buy it.
God bless and, no offence intended

 

[Nancy]

"We all agree as to two things: discrimination is widespread and it's counter productive. You find it in political circles, cultural and social relations, and religious concerns. However, many people who complain against this social bane unfortunately are unable to refrain from exhibiting a discriminatory attitude towards others.

Judging other denominations is not the business of anybody as far as God and the Bible are concerned. We may question and refute certain unbiblical or extra-biblical principles and practices in some denominations, as surely as the Bible tells us to "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them" (Eph. 5:11). Yet we are to foster a spirit of love towards people and seek their spiritual welfare.

It is human nature to gloat at the mistakes and "sins" of other people while excusing, defending and apologising for their own. A servant of God spends church funds lavishly; another pronounces a "prophecy" which hardly seems so in public perception; a third beats his wife and marries a "sweeter sixteen". . . and many will hardly resist the temptation to slant and ridicule them, so long as it is "their church", and not "my church".

Please people, the time has come for each one of us to re-examine ourselves before we stretch out our hands and fingers at others. We surely cannot keep silent in the face of open fraud and pretences in Christendom - especially as it pertains to the glory of Christ's name. However, judging and discriminating between church denominations with a censorious spirit in our hearts is something which will continue to be counter productive in our society. And if you're not a Christian and just seeking every opportunity to castigate the Christian faith, you'll find more than enough excuses to do so because charlatans are never in short supply with their games. At the end of the day, we shall all stand before the Great Judge to give account of our own works and words - including the prejudiced accusations of our tongues!

May God help each heart to seek to be more godly in an evil age.

Regards."
Should Christians Judge Other Denominations While God Says Judge Not - Religion - Nigeria

 

[Jane_Doe22]

"We all agree as to two things: discrimination is widespread and it's counter productive. You find it in political circles, cultural and social relations, and religious concerns. However, many people who complain against this social bane unfortunately are unable to refrain from exhibiting a discriminatory attitude towards others.

Judging other denominations is not the business of anybody as far as God and the Bible are concerned. We may question and refute certain unbiblical or extra-biblical principles and practices in some denominations, as surely as the Bible tells us to "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them" (Eph. 5:11). Yet we are to foster a spirit of love towards people and seek their spiritual welfare.

It is human nature to gloat at the mistakes and "sins" of other people while excusing, defending and apologising for their own. A servant of God spends church funds lavishly; another pronounces a "prophecy" which hardly seems so in public perception; a third beats his wife and marries a "sweeter sixteen". . . and many will hardly resist the temptation to slant and ridicule them, so long as it is "their church", and not "my church".

Please people, the time has come for each one of us to re-examine ourselves before we stretch out our hands and fingers at others. We surely cannot keep silent in the face of open fraud and pretences in Christendom - especially as it pertains to the glory of Christ's name. However, judging and discriminating between church denominations with a censorious spirit in our hearts is something which will continue to be counter productive in our society. And if you're not a Christian and just seeking every opportunity to castigate the Christian faith, you'll find more than enough excuses to do so because charlatans are never in short supply with their games. At the end of the day, we shall all stand before the Great Judge to give account of our own works and words - including the prejudiced accusations of our tongues!

May God help each heart to seek to be more godly in an evil age.

Regards."
Should Christians Judge Other Denominations While God Says Judge Not - Religion - Nigeria

Wise words.

In all my travels and studied of different groups, I've always found several things in every single group:
1) Devoted individuals whom love God with every fiber of their being and strive to best follow Him.
2) Sinners of every type. Prideful sinners, lustful sinners, slothful sinners, cowardly sinners, etc.
3) Somebody picking their nose in the middle of service.

 

[Nancy]

Wise words.

In all my travels and studied of different groups, I've always found several things in every single group:
1) Devoted individuals whom love God with every fiber of their being and strive to best follow Him.
2) Sinners of every type. Prideful sinners, lustful sinners, slothful sinners, cowardly sinners, etc.
3) Somebody picking their nose in the middle of service.

"3) Somebody picking their nose in the middle of service."
Ahaha...love it and have also seen this in Church. lol.
I believe everything you have mentioned above is to be found in EVERY denomination

 

[tzcho2]

@tzcho2, I have zero interest in proselytization of any kind -- giving, receiving, whatever. I have said that MANY times on this forum and in this conversation.

And if you and to go beat up the sinner Joseph Smith, go right ahead. I will readily admit that he was a sinner, like every other man on the face of this Earth. Go right ahead.

There you go being dishonest again Jane. He was not just a sinner as everyone, he was a cult leader who claims to be Christ follower - and that is a Lie because he made a story of a different Jesus Christ then who is revealed in our Christian Bible. It is very deceitful. Joseph Smith alleged that he was given golden plates by an angel called moroni . This is all lies from the pit.
Wolves are not to be spared the scrutiny of truth. Joseph Smith is the founder & prophet of Mormonism. His teachings are what it is founded upon, and history tells us he was quite the sex addict who "married" many women, who stole other men's women,which is why the polygamy in Mormonism. These Religious Cult leaders always have bizarre spiritual beliefs, more often also a shadowy past & more often questionable morality. Brigham Young was also a wolf. Mormonism tries to sell itself as Christian but it's not. Jesus & Paul warned about imposters to Christianity calling them wolves-- they never told us to welcome them or call them brothers.
Whereas , the Bible sets the standard telling us to beware of False Prophets, False teachers, those claiming look over "there is Christ"and the Wolves in sheep's clothing i.e. wolves among the sheep.
The bible tells us what to use as a standard in the behavior for Pastors, overseers, elders, deacons, teachers, and prophets. The Bible tells believers to use righteous judgment and spiritual discernment, I am exercising this instruction.
The modern church is lacking in spiritual discernment, which is why it falls away.

 

[tzcho2]

I do not see her proselytizing at all. And, as far as Joseph Smith, is concerned I care not. No, I do not believe in many of their doctrines but then, neither do I believe every doctrine in my own faith. We are not here to judge, I have found that out big time last summer when I was homebound for 10 weeks. God will not judge us on core belief doctrines. He looks to the heart of the person, not their denomination. There is so much judging on here.
I thank you for your "warning" but, I don't buy it.
God bless and, no offence intended

I think you need to study the Bible and know what Jesus spoke about false prophets, and false teachers.
Christians are to judge with righteous judgment. They are not to be naive and allowing wolves in the sheep fold.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

He was not just a sinner as everyone, he was a cult leader who claims to be Christ follower - and that is a Lie because he made a story of a different Jesus Christ then who is revealed in our Christian Bible. It is very deceitful. Joseph Smith alleged that he was given golden plates by an angel called moroni . This is all lies from the pit.
Wolves are not to be spared the scrutiny of truth. Joseph Smith is the founder & prophet of Mormonism. His teachings are what it is founded upon, and history tells us he was quite the sex addict who "married" many women, who stole other men's women,which is why the polygamy in Mormonism. These Religious Cult leaders always have bizarre spiritual beliefs, more often also a shadowy past & more often questionable morality. Brigham Young was also a wolf. Mormonism tries to sell itself as Christian but it's not. Jesus & Paul warned about imposters to Christianity calling them wolves-- they never told us to welcome them or call them brothers.
Whereas , the Bible sets the standard telling us to beware of False Prophets, False teachers, those claiming look over "there is Christ"and the Wolves in sheep's clothing i.e. wolves among the sheep.
The bible tells us what to use as a standard in the behavior for Pastors, overseers, elders, deacons, teachers, and prophets. The Bible tells believers to use righteous judgment and spiritual discernment, I am exercising this instruction.
The modern church is lacking in spiritual discernment, which is why it falls away.

I acknowledge that's your view @tzcho2. You've made them abundantly clear.
If at any point you'd like to listen to the facts of what I actually believe (not what you've been told by your teachers, but the facts), I'm game to talk.

 

[brakelite]

Yup.....YOU have the word of Christ in YOU and YOU have all wisdom........the men of the CC or any other Church that YOU disagree with are wrong.....you are always right.....

Romans 10:3

Mary

No. Again. Let me remind you what our discussion is about. On whom do we rely upon for our teachings regarding faith and practice.
Don't twist and turn to try and make it about my pride or ego.

I do just as the Church says because it is the pillar and foundation of truth.

This is your confession of Faith. It is typically Catholic. Has been for centuries. I am not arguing or debating with you. You believe this is the correct way to go... The safest for you... Fine. I don't expect anything else from a good Catholic. Me, I belong to a different faith paradigm where the church is NOT the final authority. It is the scriptures. That is where Catholicism and Protestantism differ, and why so many doctrines are different. It is why they are two completely different faiths. And it explains why for many centuries the CC forbade people from trading and possessing the scriptures for themselves, and deciding for themselves what scripture means. So what if they come up with different perspective? That is what religious freedom looks like. That is what having a conscience and using it to discover truth looks like. I trust in the promises of the word of God that teach me that God himself will lead me into truth. The point being that you don't. You don't trust God to do that. You trust the church. You allow mortal fallible men to control your conscience. Christianity is a religion of freedom of conscience... True faith rejects the concept that men... Of whatever denomination... Should control the from of conscience of others. True religious liberty demands that we all make decisions for ourselves as to what is truth and trusting God that He will not fall is in that quest. Allowing others to make that decision for you reveals your lack of trust in God to do what He promised.
2000 years of church history does not support your cause the way you would like. Having 3 different popes each calling the other Antichrist didn't help. Having leadership that supported the destruction of scriptures and the destruction of those who voted them didn't help. Demanding political powers to assist the church in rooting out heresy by killing innocent people, their families, those that supported or hid them, and confiscating their homes, didn't help. Allowing syncretism to overwhelm true Christian faith and practice didn't help. Permitting the teachings of finite fallible men to contradict scripture through false tradition didn't help. Allowing the church to develop a system through its priesthood, it's feasts and ceremonies, it's sanctuary and altars, and it's liturgy as a rival to the true sanctuary and the true High Priest in heaven, didn't help. Trust them if you must. Believe they are 100% right of you must. Place your eternal destiny in the hands of all organisation that has a history of lies and persecution and cruelty of you must. But don't come here and belittle those who prefer to trust in God, that He is able to keep His promises to them that do so. Do not belittle those as your church has done for 1500 years who prize religious freedom and freedom of conscience. Your church's track record in being a reliable source of truth and a trustworthy partner in faith and practice had been exposed now for a long time.
Does that make me right and everyone else wrong?. Probably not. But the freedom to be wrong and allowing God to be a real Father is far more important than being coerced into other's definitions of what is truth.

 

[Marymog]

That is very deceptive & trying to manipulate the truth saying that the Bible is silent on infant baptism, that's like saying it's silent about giraffes--There is no teaching of infant baptism-- because that is a FALSE TEACHING that was Added By Rome, one of many false teachings they added as well as the worst is the FALSE Gospel they preach.
It is funny M how you try to steal my words and falsely accuse me of saying the opposite of scripture -- when in fact that is an obvious lie by you.
Anyone can follow the posts I have made and track that I have simply stood consistently by what is in the word of God only and consistently denounced your man-generated rcc religion's teachings.
I've given you the one Gospel of Jesus Christ - is by Grace , through Faith alone in Jesus finished work on the Cross----over and over & I have pointed to obeying the instructions only found in the Divine authority of the Word of God.
This is a kicking the dust off my sandals moment.

Got it.....You are unable to quote ANYTHING from Scripture that shows that infants were or were not baptized....That's ok....Neither can I. HOWEVER infants are a part of FAMILIES that were baptized and scripture does say that entire families were baptized so the evidence weighs more toward infant baptism. ALSO the only historical writings we have from that time is that infants were baptized soooooo the evidence leans toward infant baptism. I have evidence to back up my belief....you have no evidence.

It was not until the Reformation that the debate on should infants be baptized or not. The debate BEFORE that was how soon should an infant be baptized. You follow the men of the Reformation.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

The OP title should rather read: "The Catholics vs. All Those Other Bad, Bad, Bad, False Apostate Unsaved Church People; Especially the Reformed!!! Argggghhhhh!!! Which is winning?"

 

[Marymog]

These are excellent questions, one that everyone ought to ponder. How does each person know that they are understanding scripture correctly?

You'll find that if you come to understand that about yourself, it brings much greater self knowledge. Listening to other people's answers also greatly helps understands them. For example, Mary's answer to that is to rely on historical accounts XYZ. My answer is to get on your knees and ask God. Other people have other answers too.

Hi Jane,

You get onto your knees and ask God about XYZ. He then gives you an answer that you think is THE RIGHT ANSWER about XYZ. Fast forward 50 years, 1,000 years or even 2,000 years......according to your theory it doesn't matter what God told you......Your "historical account" should be disregarded years later because, according to your theory, we can't rely on historical accounts. Which means we can't rely on the "historical account" of the Reformers who started questioning infant baptism 1,500 years after the original historical account concerning infant baptism.....Now can we???

The people who walked and talked with the Apostles say XYZ is true but we shouldn't rely on that.....we should only rely on what God told us, not what the Apostles told them.....Fascinating theory!!

Thank you for your time.

 

[Marymog]

No. Again. Let me remind you what our discussion is about. On whom do we rely upon for our teachings regarding faith and practice.
Don't twist and turn to try and make it about my pride or ego.

This is your confession of Faith. It is typically Catholic. Has been for centuries. I am not arguing or debating with you. You believe this is the correct way to go... The safest for you... Fine. I don't expect anything else from a good Catholic. Me, I belong to a different faith paradigm where the church is NOT the final authority. It is the scriptures. That is where Catholicism and Protestantism differ, and why so many doctrines are different. It is why they are two completely different faiths. And it explains why for many centuries the CC forbade people from trading and possessing the scriptures for themselves, and deciding for themselves what scripture means. So what if they come up with different perspective? That is what religious freedom looks like. That is what having a conscience and using it to discover truth looks like. I trust in the promises of the word of God that teach me that God himself will lead me into truth. The point being that you don't. You don't trust God to do that. You trust the church. You allow mortal fallible men to control your conscience. Christianity is a religion of freedom of conscience... True faith rejects the concept that men... Of whatever denomination... Should control the from of conscience of others. True religious liberty demands that we all make decisions for ourselves as to what is truth and trusting God that He will not fall is in that quest. Allowing others to make that decision for you reveals your lack of trust in God to do what He promised.
2000 years of church history does not support your cause the way you would like. Having 3 different popes each calling the other Antichrist didn't help. Having leadership that supported the destruction of scriptures and the destruction of those who voted them didn't help. Demanding political powers to assist the church in rooting out heresy by killing innocent people, their families, those that supported or hid them, and confiscating their homes, didn't help. Allowing syncretism to overwhelm true Christian faith and practice didn't help. Permitting the teachings of finite fallible men to contradict scripture through false tradition didn't help. Allowing the church to develop a system through its priesthood, it's feasts and ceremonies, it's sanctuary and altars, and it's liturgy as a rival to the true sanctuary and the true High Priest in heaven, didn't help. Trust them if you must. Believe they are 100% right of you must. Place your eternal destiny in the hands of all organisation that has a history of lies and persecution and cruelty of you must. But don't come here and belittle those who prefer to trust in God, that He is able to keep His promises to them that do so. Do not belittle those as your church has done for 1500 years who prize religious freedom and freedom of conscience. Your church's track record in being a reliable source of truth and a trustworthy partner in faith and practice had been exposed now for a long time.
Does that make me right and everyone else wrong?. Probably not. But the freedom to be wrong and allowing God to be a real Father is far more important than being coerced into other's definitions of what is truth.

Hi BL,

Who do YOU rely upon for your teachings regarding faith and practice?

BTW....Your confession of Faith is typically Protestant soooooo we are back to square one. Why does YOUR confession of the Protestant faith trump my confession of the Catholic faith???

Curious Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Hi Jane,

You get onto your knees and ask God about XYZ. He then gives you an answer that you think is THE RIGHT ANSWER about XYZ. Fast forward 50 years, 1,000 years or even 2,000 years......according to your theory it doesn't matter what God told you......Your "historical account" should be disregarded years later because, according to your theory, we can't rely on historical accounts. Which means we can't rely on the "historical account" of the Reformers who started questioning infant baptism 1,500 years after the original historical account concerning infant baptism.....Now can we???

Mary, I'm not a Protestant.

The people who walked and talked with the Apostles say XYZ is true but we shouldn't rely on that.....we should only rely on what God told us, not what the Apostles told them.....Fascinating theory!!

This^ is a straw man argument: you're "defeating" a position nobody actually holds.

 

[Marymog]

That is very deceptive & trying to manipulate the truth saying that the Bible is silent on infant baptism, that's like saying it's silent about giraffes--There is no teaching of infant baptism-- because that is a FALSE TEACHING that was Added By Rome, one of many false teachings they added as well as the worst is the FALSE Gospel they preach.
It is funny M how you try to steal my words and falsely accuse me of saying the opposite of scripture -- when in fact that is an obvious lie by you.
Anyone can follow the posts I have made and track that I have simply stood consistently by what is in the word of God only and consistently denounced your man-generated rcc religion's teachings.
I've given you the one Gospel of Jesus Christ - is by Grace , through Faith alone in Jesus finished work on the Cross----over and over & I have pointed to obeying the instructions only found in the Divine authority of the Word of God.
This is a kicking the dust off my sandals moment.

Hey dodgeball, you still didn't answer my questions.

Maybe @Nancy can help you out since she likes your post?

 

[Marymog]

Mary, I'm not a Protestant.

This^ is a straw man argument: you're doing around defeating a theory nobody is actually believing in.

Jane....Yes you are....!!!

Protestant defined: a member of any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope and affirming the Reformation principles of justification by faith alone, the priesthood of all believers, and the primacy of the Bible as the only source of revealed truth

broadly defined : a Christian not of a Catholic or Eastern church.

Do you fit some or all of that criteria???

Curious Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Jane....Yes you are....!!!

Protestant defined: a member of any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope and affirming the Reformation principles of justification by faith alone, the priesthood of all believers, and the primacy of the Bible as the only source of revealed truth

broadly defined : a Christian not of a Catholic or Eastern church.

Do you fit some or all of that criteria???

Curious Mary

Mary, a "Protestant" is a member of a church that traces it's historical roots back to the Protestant reformation. They hold true to several common beliefs such as Sola Scriptura, etc.
That's not me.

 

[Marymog]

Mary, a "Protestant" is a member of a church that traces it's historical roots back to the Protestant reformation. They hold true to several common beliefs such as Sola Scriptura, etc.
That's not me.

OK.....You deny Sola Scriptura. That takes you one step closer to being Catholic.

What other beliefs/practices do you hold that Protestants hold?

It might be easier if you just tell me what church you belong to....

Curious Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

OK.....You deny Sola Scriptura. That takes you one step closer to being Catholic.

What other beliefs/practices do you hold that Protestants hold?

It might be easier if you just tell me what church you belong to....

Curious Mary

Mary, do you REALLY care about what I believe, or do you just want me to be Catholic?
As discussed, I find Catholicism epistemological roots to be extremely weak.

 

[Nancy]

Hey dodgeball, you still didn't answer my questions.

Maybe @Nancy can help you out since she likes your post?

Mary,
Do you not realize that Satan had his talons within the Church from the beginning. And, since you abide by the fact that the CC is the original and oldest "Church" therefore, it should be staunchly followed, have you ever given thought that you are following all the original heresies as well? Can you not just respect that others do not believe as you do and still speak with love?