christian heavy metal?? thoughts & opinions

[us2are1]

But they do sing songs and worship to God.

If this is in Christ's teachings or in the new covenant of the new testament where is it at in scripture?




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[jiggyfly]

If this is in Christ's teachings or in the new covenant of the new testament where is it at in scripture?




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Revelation

 

[us2are1]

Revelation

Revelation 5
9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

Revelation 14
3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 15
3 They sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying: "Great and marvelous are Your works, Lord God Almighty! Just and true are Your ways, O King of the saints!


These are the only three places where singing and song are mentioned in The Book of revelation..

I do not see the doctrine of christian music ministry being taught in these scriptures.




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[FHII]

Us2are1,

Is there something you dislike about singing, songs, music or joyfulness in the fore-mentioned you don’t agree with? I can show it in the NT, and in many places. I do wonder why you’d limit it to the NT, however.

I understand the argument of “that was the Old Testament, show it to me in the New Testament!” I use that argument too sometimes. However, it only works when talking about the Law; and not everything in the OT was “Law”. Certainly it was in the OT, and quite often. Yet, it was never a “Law” to be joyous, to make cheerful or even loud music. I’d argue that we have more to be joyful about today that we are free from the Law of sin and death and thus, have more reason to be joyous, sing loudly, and so forth.

So what are you looking for? Examples of Joyful music? Examples of music, at all? A doctrine that says we must? Or are you looking for where there is a call for a Christian music ministry?

I can provide…. I said I could, and can… But let’s review some of your requests:

You said:
“i can not find in Christ's teachings or in the new covenant of the new testament where it says to make a Joyful or Joyous noise to God. Can you show me where this ritual and doctrine is located in the new testament scriptures?

“If this is in Christ's teachings or in the new covenant of the new testament where is it at in scripture?”

“These are the only three places where singing and song are mentioned in The Book of revelation..I do not see the doctrine of christian music ministry being taught in these scriptures.”

Again, I can show where people made a joyful noise (and it relates to music, though indirectly). I can show where it was a ritual and a doctrine (teaching); I can show where they did it (more than just the three times in Revelation). If you are looking for a doctrine that says we must have or are called to have a Christian music ministry…. Well, by that terminology, I can’t. I can from the OT, but not from the Law which means that it was never a part of it.

Music was in the NT, and it was joyful…

 

[us2are1]

The point is that king David was not a good example to follow and Solomon with all of his wisdom could not save himself.

There is only one that all are to be following and imitating. Ephesians 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children.

Christ likeness is the direction everyone, who would see life, should be moving toward. Matthew 10:25 It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master.

Music was not in the new testament. Christ didn't teach it and gave no example to do it. It was not part of the first church.

If you want to take a chance with your own salvation that's one thing but if you are wrong then everyone who has followed you blood is at your hands also.




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[FHII]

Ok... So you don't want to follow David who fullfilled all the will of God, was a man after God's own heart, and was a figure and a shadow of Jesus to come?

OK....

No, David wasn't perfect, neither was Solomon. But they were pretty close and Jesus himself drew from their sayings. Jesus built his ministry and his reputation on their prophecy. I'd be proud to follow in David's footsteps, except that David is up there saying, no.... Let me see your day (and yes, I have scripture on that)!

Jesus quoted David and Solomon, mentioned them often, and yet they aren't good examples, even though Jesus referred to their teachings and words...

Ok...

Sorry... That's just so bizzare.

But yes, I can show you that Music was in the New Testament. Jesus taught of it, liked it and referred to it. So did Paul, Matthew, Luke, Mark and John.

 

[us2are1]

Ok... So you don't want to follow David who fullfilled all the will of God, was a man after God's own heart, and was a figure and a shadow of Jesus to come?

OK....

No, David wasn't perfect, neither was Solomon. But they were pretty close and Jesus himself drew from their sayings. Jesus built his ministry and his reputation on their prophecy. I'd be proud to follow in David's footsteps, except that David is up there saying, no.... Let me see your day (and yes, I have scripture on that)!

Jesus quoted David and Solomon, mentioned them often, and yet they aren't good examples, even though Jesus referred to their teachings and words...

Ok...

Sorry... That's just so bizzare.

But yes, I can show you that Music was in the New Testament. Jesus taught of it, liked it and referred to it. So did Paul, Matthew, Luke, Mark and John.

Christ slammed Solomon many times and had nothing good to say about Him. Solomon died in his sin and will not be in the kingdom of God.

David was good but not good enough to save Israel from their sins.

None of them had the fulness in Christ that is now available to all who will ask God for his Spirit in faith.

You Choose what you will and serve what you will.

The morning is about to dawn and the sons of God are about to be revealed.

Those who walk by faith in God alone.




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[jiggyfly]

Revelation 5
9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

Revelation 14
3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 15
3 They sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying: "Great and marvelous are Your works, Lord God Almighty! Just and true are Your ways, O King of the saints!


These are the only three places where singing and song are mentioned in The Book of revelation..

I do not see the doctrine of christian music ministry being taught in these scriptures.




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But that's not what you asked for, Maybe you should go back and reread your own posts.

And then you may want to read Eph. 5:18&19, and Col. 3:16.

Don't be drunk with wine, because that will ruin your life. Instead, be filled with the Holy Spirit, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs among yourselves, and making music to the Lord in your hearts.

Let the message about Christ, in all its richness, fill your lives. Teach and counsel each other with all the wisdom he gives. Sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs to God with thankful hearts.

 

[us2are1]

But that's not what you asked for, Maybe you should go back and reread your own posts.

And then you may want to read Eph. 5:18&19, and Col. 3:16.

Don't be drunk with wine, because that will ruin your life. Instead, be filled with the Holy Spirit, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs among yourselves, and making music to the Lord in your hearts.

Let the message about Christ, in all its richness, fill your lives. Teach and counsel each other with all the wisdom he gives. Sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs to God with thankful hearts.

I assumed that you had read my first posts on this thread.

God sent us His supreme example, Christ.

If you want to please God, Do what Christ did. Imitate Christ.

If you don't want to please God then do as you please.

This seems like a simple thing.

I can not find in Christ's teachings or in the new covenant of the new testament where it says to make a Joyful or Joyous noise to God. Can you show me where this ritual and doctrine is located in the new testament scriptures?

Thanks jiggyfly I must have missed these scriptures. They are clear.

Ephesians 5
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Colossians 3
16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord

 

[Comm.Arnold]

Christ slammed Solomon many times and had nothing good to say about Him. Solomon died in his sin and will not be in the kingdom of God.

David was good but not good enough to save Israel from their sins.

None of them had the fulness in Christ that is now available to all who will ask God for his Spirit in faith.

You Choose what you will and serve what you will.

The morning is about to dawn and the sons of God are about to be revealed.

Those who walk by faith in God alone.




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Matthew 6:28-29 ""And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin.Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these."

I don't really see the slamming, do you have some scripture to back up this slamming ?

 

[us2are1]

Matthew 6:28-29 ""And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin.Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these."

I don't really see the slamming, do you have some scripture to back up this slamming ?

If you can't see it then you can't see it.

1 Kings 11
1 But King Solomon loved many foreign women, as well as the daughter of Pharaoh: women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians, and Hittites--
2 from the nations of whom the Lord had said to the children of Israel, "You shall not intermarry with them, nor they with you. Surely they will turn away your hearts after their gods." Solomon clung to these in love.
3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart.
4 For it was so, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned his heart after other gods; and his heart was not loyal to the Lord his God, as was the heart of his father David.
5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
6 Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord, and did not follow the Lord, as did his father David.
7 Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the abomination of Moab, on the hill that is east of Jerusalem, and for Molech the abomination of the people of Ammon.
8 And he did likewise for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and sacrificed to their gods.
9 So the Lord became angry with Solomon, because his heart had turned from the Lord God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice,
10 and had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods; but he did not keep what the Lord had commanded.






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[FHII]

Well, heck... There's the many times Christ slammed Solomon, and proof that Jesus hated joyful music! Now, let's be off to lynch John the Bapist because he doubted toward the end of his life too! And along the way, let's kick Thomas a few times!

 

[FHII]

Luk 15:25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing.

Well, that's four references to the new testament.... How many more do you want? Cause I have more....

He heard dancing! How do you hear dancing unless it was pretty loud?

 

[Comm.Arnold]

Well, heck... There's the many times Christ slammed Solomon, and proof that Jesus hated joyful music! Now, let's be off to lynch John the Bapist because he doubted toward the end of his life too! And along the way, let's kick Thomas a few times!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Im crying FHII.

Luk 15:25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing.

Well, that's four references to the new testament.... How many more do you want? Cause I have more....

He heard dancing! How do you hear dancing unless it was pretty loud?

So do you just not feed the "insert bigandy picture"

 

[MrsMopar]

Again, I am no scholar...just simply a Christian...but look here if you question my comment about making a joyful noise....and please note that it does not specify any type of "music"...just jubilant song....
Thank you.


Psalm 98:4

New International Version (NIV)


[sup]4[/sup] Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth,
burst into jubilant song with music;

 

[Episkopos]

The heaviest metal a Christian should seek for is gold. Another is silver. But gold is heavier.

 

[us2are1]

Again, I am no scholar...just simply a Christian...but look here if you question my comment about making a joyful noise....and please note that it does not specify any type of "music"...just jubilant song....
Thank you.


Psalm 98:4

New International Version (NIV)


[sup]4[/sup] Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth,
burst into jubilant song with music;

That is the old testament not the new.

Jiggyfly has already answered that well.

It still has nothing to do with the flesh or what the world seeks or calls acceptable.

It does not give those who claim Christ the right to do as the world does.




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[Comm.Arnold]

That is the old testament not the new.

Jiggyfly has already answered that well.

It still has nothing to do with the flesh or what the world seeks or calls acceptable.

It does not give those who claim Christ the right to do as the world does.




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So now the Old testament isn't valid to you ? :wacko: Literally on the same page you have contradicted yourself. I will pray that God clears things up for you.

 

[FHII]

So now the Old testament isn't valid to you ? :wacko: Literally on the same page you have contradicted yourself. I will pray that God clears things up for you.

That’s a great point. People often ask, “That was the OT, where is that in the NT?” The problem is, that’s not always a valid argument. It only applies in discussions about Faith vs. the Law. Not everything in the OT was Law, though.

In Mat 21:9, we read:

And the multitudes that went before, and thatfollowed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.

Why did they say this? It was from the OT (a psalm, I’d like to point out):

Psa 118:26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

When the priests and scribes complained about it, Jesus answered:

Mat 21:16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise

Where did Jesus get this? Another psalm:


Psa 8:1 To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David. O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
Psa 8:2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

In Luke, we get an added account. The Pharisees asked Jesus to rebuke his disciples, to which Jesus answered:

Luk 19:40 …I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

Again, where did Jesus get this? Well, not from Psalms, but from the OT:

Hab 2:11 For the stone shall cry out of the wall, and the beam out of the timber shall answer it.

The point is two-fold:

1. Jesus quoted the OT continually, as did the Apostles. We can say, “We are no longer under the Law”, but these things listed above were not Law. If we totally discount the OT, much of what Jesus said is no longer to be considered.
2. These quotes may not have been sung in the NT, but they might have been (speaking of the multitude praising Jesus). They are however, from music. And they were certainly loud, joyous noise.

There are other examples in the NT. Jesus told a parable of the prodigal son, and when he came home there was music and dancing (Luke 15:25). Paul and Silas sang in Prison loud enough to be heard (Acts 16:25). Furthermore, Paul encouraged Psalms, as long as they are done to edify (1 Cor 14:26).

 

[FHII]

That is the old testament not the new.

Jiggyfly has already answered that well.

It still has nothing to do with the flesh or what the world seeks or calls acceptable.

It does not give those who claim Christ the right to do as the world does.

I totally missed this exchange between Jiggyfly and Us2are1. Those were pretty good references Jiggyfly gave, and Us2are1 seemed to accept it. I forgot about those verses too, otherwise they would've been at the top of my list along with Jesus' teaching about the prodigal son!

Us2are1, has your opinion about music and it's roll in worship changed?