Christian Mysticism

[aspen]

Oxymoron? Valid method of Christian prayer?

What is Christian Mysticism? Did the Catholic Church take a wrong path by tolerating this practice? Is diect experience with God possible through prayer or is it just a gnostic/neoplatonic fantasy? Is it different than Quietism, which was declared a heresy by prots and caths?

 

[Prentis]

I'm not an expert on mysticism... And so I won't pretend to be one.

According to what I understand...

Mysticism goes into the spiritual realm. The risk there is 'which spirit?' To me, I see christianity as a path with two ditches, we must walk by the Spirit, but the right spirit.

On the one side of the ditch, there is the dead christianity, that is according to beliefs, to the letter of the law, rather than according to life by the Spirit in Christ Jesus. Mysticism does well in avoiding that mistake, but can more easily get itself into the other ditch... The other ditch is to accept all spiritual experiences as positive and from God... To seek spiritual experience for the sake of spiritual experience, because we think that is God's focus. The danger of that side of the path is that you accept any spirit.

Chrstianity is meant to be in the middle of the path, walking straight, walking not in death, but by life in God's Spirit, but also discerning the Spirits.

 

[aspen]

I do believe caution is necessary, however caution is always necessary when dealing with all aspects of religion. Based on my experience, I have encounter God in the mystic (first hand through prayer) sense frequently.

Being cautious includes....

Rejection of new revelation
Remaining grounded in the Bible and church Tradition
Contemplation focused on listening to God

 

[justaname]

I'll have had good and bad experiences Prentis. Isaiah 45:7
And I call everything a blessing from God. Did you not read Job?

Did the Catholic Church take a wrong path by tolerating this practice?
I don't think the catholic church has a say in it, I believe it is God who controls the times and epochs.
Is diect experience with God possible through prayer or is it just a gnostic/neoplatonic fantasy? Is it different than Quietism, which was declared a heresy by prots and caths?
If you don't have enough faith in God that He can simply respond to your prayer...
I suppose if by your question you mean you can push God around I see your point by being some kind of mystic(yeah right), but Jesus didn't have an operation table and healed the sick.

 

[aspen]

Yeah, i certainly do not believe Christian Mysticism involves pushing God around.....just the opposite! Christian Mysticism is not an attempt to gain power like witchcraft. It is merely the belief that we can experience God intimately and directly. It goes beyond knowing about God through doctrine.

Also, we have no control over the experience.....God decides how we will experience Him.

I have found it helpful and spiritually enriching to read the experiences of Christian mystics who have come before us like St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, and Metchthild of Magenburg.

 

[Prentis]

I'll have had good and bad experiences Prentis. Isaiah 45:7
And I call everything a blessing from God. Did you not read Job?

Did the Catholic Church take a wrong path by tolerating this practice?
I don't think the catholic church has a say in it, I believe it is God who controls the times and epochs.
Is diect experience with God possible through prayer or is it just a gnostic/neoplatonic fantasy? Is it different than Quietism, which was declared a heresy by prots and caths?
If you don't have enough faith in God that He can simply respond to your prayer...
I suppose if by your question you mean you can push God around I see your point by being some kind of mystic(yeah right), but Jesus didn't have an operation table and healed the sick.

God brings good or bad... But so does the enemy! Not every spirit is from God...

If the devil appears to you as an angel of light, is that a 'good thing', and should you take his words for truth?

Or is it a test?

Everything is a blessing from God if you take it as such, ie a false messenger will be a test, and if you pass, you will grow. But that is different from saying you should receive any spirit as of God.

Rather we are to test the Spirits.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Oxymoron? Valid method of Christian prayer? What is Christian Mysticism? Did the Catholic Church take a wrong path by tolerating this practice? Is direct experience with God possible through prayer or is it just a gnostic/neoplatonic fantasy? Is it different than Quietism, which was declared a heresy by prots and caths?

I don't know what neoplatonic or quietism is but if a person has not had the Sacred Gift of a Divine Visitation from God, where the Doors of Perception are opened and one sees the very essence of life pulsing and breathing with love in every atom around them and in them creating earthstopping, motionless awe, humility, gratitude and tears--- well, they haven't lived. Is that a mystical experience? I guess that is what people call it. I call it a Visit from my Father. Ha! Miss Hepburn



Oh and a blessing of such magnitude - it never leaves your mind really and everything after that is colored in the remembrance of Pure Love Divine in every blade of grass - and one's life is never again the same - but has been infused with this knowledge that we are all indeed on a Path to
the Divine - no matter how circuitous - and so a deep peace of tolerance, compassion and condfidence in the Goal is left in a person...I could go on and on, really.
Ha!

 

[justaname]

God brings good or bad... But so does the enemy! Not every spirit is from God...

If the devil appears to you as an angel of light, is that a 'good thing', and should you take his words for truth?

Or is it a test?

Everything is a blessing from God if you take it as such, ie a false messenger will be a test, and if you pass, you will grow. But that is different from saying you should receive any spirit as of God.

Rather we are to test the Spirits.

God will not give us more than we can handle, hence it is He who allows any spirt to come near you. He did not give us a spirit of fear but of love who casts out fear when perfected.
Understand when dealing with spirits there is One in you which is Spirit, the HS. Again it is God who is in control at all times, we are subservient from the Father, to the Son, and to the HolySpirit.
Galatians 4:6 Note here again who is calling out "Abba, Father"

Now by me continually proclaiming God's sovereignty, let me also say we should not be dead in effort. We should test the spirits, as the texts proclaim.

 

[aspen]

God will never give us more then we can handle - meaning He will never place us in circumstances that will tempt us without giving us a way to turn away and follow Him.

 

[jiggyfly]

I have been blessed by reading some of the early mystic writings like Origen and I like some of the writings of John of the Cross.

If we truly walk by/in the Spirit there should be no fret, after all one of the spiritual gifts is discerning of spirits.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

The devil is like a roaring lion ----a roar never hurt me.
Discerning is a Gift, that's for sure, jiggy, no need to fret, imo.
Miss Hepburn

 

[aspen]

I don't know what neoplatonic or quietism is but if a person has not had the Sacred Gift of a Divine Visitation from God, where the Doors of Perception are opened and one sees the very essence of life pulsing and breathing with love in every atom around them and in them creating earthstopping, motionless awe, humility, gratitude and tears--- well, they haven't lived. Is that a mystical experience? I guess that is what people call it. I call it a Visit from my Father. Ha! Miss Hepburn



Oh and a blessing of such magnitude - it never leaves your mind really and everything after that is colored in the remembrance of Pure Love Divine in every blade of grass - and one's life is never again the same - but has been infused with this knowledge that we are all indeed on a Path to
the Divine - no matter how circuitous - and so a deep peace of tolerance, compassion and condfidence in the Goal is left in a person...I could go on and on, really.
Ha!

Absolutely! Experiencing the pure love of God in prayer drives away all fear, quenches all thirst and transforms a selfish, needy, abandoned spirit into a selfless, loving, whole being! Truly a second birth! Once experienced, it can never be denied or forgotten and leaves a person in a nondualistic world, refocused through the lens of love. Nothing is ever the same, as we are led on to redemption and the work of love in the world; navigating the paradoxes as we long for the day of full transformation

I just watched a youtube BBC program about the power of silence. Some monks from Worth Abbey in England taught six people how to incorporate silence into their everyday lives. After 8 days of silence and spiritual direction, all the participates - even the atheists experienced profound spiritual moments....one of the atheists reported that he was going to have to go home and admit that he met Jesus and he doesn't even believe in Jesus! Good thing Jesus believes in him. All the participates left the Abbey with the same message 'God has always been with them and everything is going to be ok - do not fear'

I received the exact same message after my 10 contemplative retreat at my monastery. The 3 part series

Is called The Big Silence

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Too bad the youtube series is no longer available - only
a 3hr DVD for purchase now.

 

[veteran]

Even so-called 'Christian Mysticism' has borrowed elements from the old pagan Mystery Schools of ancient Egypt, Greece, Syria, etc. Plato admitted he'd been initiated into those 'mysteries' and drew criticism for exposing that. So there's a big red flag, because the Mystery School movement of those times chose to remain SECRET, likewise with the mystical fraternities today that claim those ancient mystery schools as their basis, they keep their mystery 'teachings' secret like the old ones did.

This is why those like Origen at Alexandria, Egypt were influenced by that movement in the early Church era. The remnants of those mystery schools today treat their initiates as if THEY ONLY have the REAL SECRETS of Christianity and who Christ Jesus was. Thus they tell their students that 'they' are the real 'elect' of Christ. All that of course is false.

 

[jiggyfly]

Even so-called 'Christian Mysticism' has borrowed elements from the old pagan Mystery Schools of ancient Egypt, Greece, Syria, etc. Plato admitted he'd been initiated into those 'mysteries' and drew criticism for exposing that. So there's a big red flag, because the Mystery School movement of those times chose to remain SECRET, likewise with the mystical fraternities today that claim those ancient mystery schools as their basis, they keep their mystery 'teachings' secret like the old ones did.

This is why those like Origen at Alexandria, Egypt were influenced by that movement in the early Church era. The remnants of those mystery schools today treat their initiates as if THEY ONLY have the REAL SECRETS of Christianity and who Christ Jesus was. Thus they tell their students that 'they' are the real 'elect' of Christ. All that of course is false.

If it was a "secret" how do you know about it now?
Where did you get this info about Origen?

 

[veteran]

If it was a "secret" how do you know about it now?
Where did you get this info about Origen?

1. history and works like 1789 Proofs Of A Conspiracy by John Robison's included documentation of the rites and philosophy of the Bavarian Illuminati order, it's initiate degrees and divisions of teachings of two sections of Lesser and Greater Mysteries. The Abbe Barruel also covered the same in a work of that era (Encyclopedia History of Jacobinism).
2. study of early Church fathers

 

[aspen]

Even so-called 'Christian Mysticism' has borrowed elements from the old pagan Mystery Schools of ancient Egypt, Greece, Syria, etc. Plato admitted he'd been initiated into those 'mysteries' and drew criticism for exposing that. So there's a big red flag, because the Mystery School movement of those times chose to remain SECRET, likewise with the mystical fraternities today that claim those ancient mystery schools as their basis, they keep their mystery 'teachings' secret like the old ones did.

This is why those like Origen at Alexandria, Egypt were influenced by that movement in the early Church era. The remnants of those mystery schools today treat their initiates as if THEY ONLY have the REAL SECRETS of Christianity and who Christ Jesus was. Thus they tell their students that 'they' are the real 'elect' of Christ. All that of course is false.

Nothing secret or exclusive about Christian Mysticism - it is open to all. You just have to pray. You should probably mention that Origen was excommunicated.

Also, just because more than one tradition shares the same practices or similar practices does not mean the believe the same things. Did Christianity adopted the practice of prayer from other religions before it? Are we supposed to get rid of the practice because pagans prayed and engaged in religious rituals before Christianity existed?

If I were you, I would be much more concerned with the Zoroasterian influence of dualism that has infiltrated many conservative Protestant traditions than misrepresenting the 2000 year tradition of Christian Mysticism.

 

[jiggyfly]

1. history and works like 1789 Proofs Of A Conspiracy by John Robison's included documentation of the rites and philosophy of the Bavarian Illuminati order, it's initiate degrees and divisions of teachings of two sections of Lesser and Greater Mysteries. The Abbe Barruel also covered the same in a work of that era (Encyclopedia History of Jacobinism).
2. study of early Church fathers

Can you be more specific on Origen please? I have the Ante-Nicene Fathers, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers 1st and 2nd series, but not sure how you come up with your conclusion.

 

[veteran]

Can you be more specific on Origen please? I have the Ante-Nicene Fathers, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers 1st and 2nd series, but not sure how you come up with your conclusion.

http://www.iep.utm.edu/origen-of-alexandria/