Christian Nationalism

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Riven

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Obviously, the term Christian nationalist is being thrown around recklessly as a pejorative for any Christian who holds a political position one disagrees with.

It seems that from your perspective, anyone who advocates for teaching Intelligent Design in schools is automatically a "Christian nationalist".
They tend to be, yes. They also tend to be the types that reject evolution and science.

Jesus taught that we should be an influence for good in society: “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. (Mat 5:14).

So would you consider a law that restricts late term abortions, and abortions for sex selection, to be "forcing your beliefs on to others"?
I really don't understand this obsession evangelicals have with abortion. Meanwhile, they're completely silent on the weekend drive by shootings in places like Chicago that have a real impact on human beings that have already been born.
 
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markalan

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They tend to be, yes. They also tend to be the types that reject evolution and science.
I think you would find quite a lot of posters in this forum who do not believe that humans evolved from animals ... and they would not describe themselves as CNs.

I really don't understand this obsession evangelicals have with abortion. Meanwhile, they're completely silent on the weekend drive by shootings in places like Chicago that have a real impact on human beings that have already been born.
Something to do with the vulnerability of the innocent, I would say.

Would you like to force gun restrictions on society?
 

MatthewG

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There is nothing I disagree with in your post ... and yet I am a supporter of ACL (Australian Christian Lobby) whose aim is to influence government legislation to reflect traditional Biblical values. For that I am called a "Christian nationalist" ... and a lot of other things!

For all those I know who are involved with ACL, Jesus Christ is the centre of their lives, as He is the heart of mine.

Hey Marklan, One time I saw a lady going around anointing the walls in a place I was working. I know she’s a person of faith who genuinely seeks God and believes in the Lord Yeshua. She came around the corner and I asked her what she was doing, and she said, “Anointing this place, we need it.”

I just told her, “Alright, do whatever you need to do.” I’m not here to judge people for how they express their faith. Everyone has their own way of walking things out before God.

For me, I’m mainly here to share information when it’s helpful. I try not to give unsolicited advice unless it’s really needed or I feel like it might actually benefit someone.

At the end of the day, people are seeking God in the ways they understand, and I respect that.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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I know very little about "Christian anarchists" ... does it include not obeying the law of the country when it conflicts with God's laws?
Here in Australia, the law threatens a pastor with jail if he prays for someone who has requested prayer to suppress or change lgbt feelings. I believe many will disobey that law.

It's an official socio-political philosophy and movement or group of movements. It basically is like secular anarchism that would want no government and other kind of institutions but for newfangled Evangelical Christian reasons similar to the ones in the Original Post. You can fine those kind of sentiments from liberals who bring those kind of sentiments into Christianity, along with the "Jesus people" of the 1970s who brought the Hippy Counter Culture sentiments into Christianity, not so much with substance use, or free love etc. but "Disestablishmentariainism", because Jesus in different ways as Messiah did do a certain amount of that overturning money changer tables, playing down the use of titles etc.

I would add I used to deal with folks like this all the time 20 years ago. There was a defunct message board called the ooze dot com. It was filled with lots of people but a good chunk of them were fans of wanting to reinvent how to do church with House Churches, books like Frank Violas "Pagan Christianity" (falsely claimed that large Church services came from pagan corruption), as well as lots of counter culture folks from Jesus Movement boomers who were in modern Pentecostal and Charismatic churches, and occasionally some Christian Anarchists.
 
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Riven

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I think you would find quite a lot of posters in this forum who do not believe that humans evolved from animals ... and they would not describe themselves as CNs.
Perhaps not when discussing science or evolution. But get them talking about politics and they will absolutely fall into a category that believes Christianity should be at the head of government and legislative decision making.

Something to do with the vulnerability of the innocent, I would say.
No human being is innocent according to the bible. One of the reasons there was such a controversy over traditional Catholic teachings was because they viewed unborn children that died before being saved as eternally damned.

They later walked it back due to being shamed in public for such a stance. It became a PR nightmare for the church.

Would you like to force gun restrictions on society?
Restrictions? I would take them all away by force in America. Americans have proven, decade after decade, through mass shootings, and school shootings, that they are not responsible enough to handle the responsibility of owning guns.
 

ProDeo

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When did this change? The "church" is just the world wrapped in churchy clothing. :(

"Christianity Thrives when it challenges Empire. It becomes corrupted when it tries to become one."

"Christianity began with no army, no political party, no courts, no national flag, and no emperor "protecting" it.
Just a crucified Savior and a handful of ordinary people convinced that loving their enemies, caring for the forgotten, sharing what they had, and refusing to worship Caesar could change the world.
And somehow, it did.
The Church grew while it was culturally powerless because its power looked completely different from Rome’s.
Rome conquered people.
Christians served them.
Rome celebrated status.
Christians called slaves and rulers brothers and sisters.
Rome abandoned the sick and unwanted.
Christians carried them home.
Then Christianity gained access to the palace.
Constantine legalized and favored the faith. Within decades, Christianity became the official religion of the empire.
Suddenly, the persecuted Church had political influence.
Then political privilege.
Then political power.
And eventually, in some places, the followers of Jesus began persecuting others.
From religious wars and inquisitions to forced conversions, colonial conquests, and defenses of slavery, Christian history contains some deeply embarrassing chapters.
Not because Jesus failed.
Because Christians repeatedly traded His way for Caesar’s.
We took a faith built on carrying a cross and used it to decorate thrones.
That should make us pause today.
When Christianity becomes obsessed with controlling government, defeating cultural enemies, enforcing conformity, and keeping “our people” in power, we should recognize the pattern.
We have seen this movie before.
And somehow we keep buying tickets to a Christianity that looks nothing like Jesus.
Jesus never asked to become the mascot of an empire.
He called us to become servants in His Kingdom.
Christianity thrives when it offers the world an alternative to domination... not when it baptizes domination and calls it Christlike.
The Church is most powerful
when it looks like Jesus.
And Jesus conquered the world
from a cross.
Not a throne."
#ChristianNationalism

Excellent post @Nancy, we are living in the world of Caesar but with His Kingdom within us.
 
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Taken

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Restrictions? I would take them all away by force in America. Americans have proven, decade after decade, through mass shootings, and school shootings, that they are not responsible enough to handle the responsibility of owning guns.



Punishing the whole, for behavior of a few.
Bad Idea.
 

Riven

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Punishing the whole, for behavior of a few.
Bad Idea.
The "whole" are complicit in the murders by shrugging their shoulders every time a child is murdered with a firearm.
 

Brakelite

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When did this change? The "church" is just the world wrapped in churchy clothing. :(

"Christianity Thrives when it challenges Empire. It becomes corrupted when it tries to become one."

"Christianity began with no army, no political party, no courts, no national flag, and no emperor "protecting" it.
Just a crucified Savior and a handful of ordinary people convinced that loving their enemies, caring for the forgotten, sharing what they had, and refusing to worship Caesar could change the world.
And somehow, it did.
The Church grew while it was culturally powerless because its power looked completely different from Rome’s.
Rome conquered people.
Christians served them.
Rome celebrated status.
Christians called slaves and rulers brothers and sisters.
Rome abandoned the sick and unwanted.
Christians carried them home.
Then Christianity gained access to the palace.
Constantine legalized and favored the faith. Within decades, Christianity became the official religion of the empire.
Suddenly, the persecuted Church had political influence.
Then political privilege.
Then political power.
And eventually, in some places, the followers of Jesus began persecuting others.
From religious wars and inquisitions to forced conversions, colonial conquests, and defenses of slavery, Christian history contains some deeply embarrassing chapters.
Not because Jesus failed.
Because Christians repeatedly traded His way for Caesar’s.
We took a faith built on carrying a cross and used it to decorate thrones.
That should make us pause today.
When Christianity becomes obsessed with controlling government, defeating cultural enemies, enforcing conformity, and keeping “our people” in power, we should recognize the pattern.
We have seen this movie before.
And somehow we keep buying tickets to a Christianity that looks nothing like Jesus.
Jesus never asked to become the mascot of an empire.
He called us to become servants in His Kingdom.
Christianity thrives when it offers the world an alternative to domination... not when it baptizes domination and calls it Christlike.
The Church is most powerful
when it looks like Jesus.
And Jesus conquered the world
from a cross.
Not a throne."
#ChristianNationalism
Nicely articulated Nancy.
 

markalan

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Perhaps not when discussing science or evolution. But get them talking about politics and they will absolutely fall into a category that believes Christianity should be at the head of government and legislative decision making.

That sounds like a good title for a new thread.

No human being is innocent according to the bible. One of the reasons there was such a controversy over traditional Catholic teachings was because they viewed unborn children that died before being saved as eternally damned.

I believe the unborn and little children deserve special protection ... Jesus demonstrated a special care of children (Mat 18):

Restrictions? I would take them all away by force in America. Americans have proven, decade after decade, through mass shootings, and school shootings, that they are not responsible enough to handle the responsibility of owning guns.

It seems you are saying that it is ok for the anti-gun movement to force compliance but not for Christians to support laws that reflect traditional Biblical values.
 
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ProDeo

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A holy nation of Christians = Christian Nationalists

With or without elected representatives who vote for policies that may or may not be according to tradition,
but By the Word of God

Speaking of the Word of God how about ?

John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.

Caesar (worldly kingdoms) and Jesus (heavenly Kingdom) don't go well, are opposites. By birth we are forced to live in a world full of Caesar's who want to fight, start wars. Politics, extreme nationalism and religion is a toxic mix as history has proven us multiple times, the Roman Catholic Church, popes going to war as most striking example. So glad our constitutions learned from that (man not able, only Christ, just be patience) and separated Church from State, do not strive to make the same mistake again.
 

Riven

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I believe the unborn and little children deserve special protection ... Jesus demonstrated a special care of children (Mat 18):
It doesn't matter. They're still not saved. Most Christians today have been shamed into not saying that unsaved children are damned, but that's what the bible teaches. We're seeing similar concessions from the church with regards to suicide as well.

It seems you are saying that it is ok for the anti-gun movement to force compliance but not for Christians to support laws that reflect traditional Biblical values.
What's more important? Some religious law about teaching the bible in school, or making sure that children cab attend school without being brutally murdered by some nut job with a firearm?

This is basic stuff that every other developed western country has been able to figure out, much like healthcare, except the United States. Because this country is full of stupid people that would rather argue over abortion rights while their own children can't even feel safe while attending school.
 

Taken

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defenses of slavery…

Without context, a single word can be construed to always be a negative.

A slave broadly implies, partial or complete surrender of Freewill, to an other.

Exactly…the Big Picture of Christ Jesus’ Request.


When Christianity becomes obsessed with controlling government,

Obsessed, opens your Opinion with your negative (intended influencing) Opinion.

It is NOT an Obsession, rather, a DESIRE,
For Legislator's, to Not rely on “whims, wants, schemes…” and solely stick to the protocol upon which this Nation was Established…
ie… Gods Just Standards, Principles and Fixed Objectives.

Jesus never asked to become the mascot of an empire.

Another negative choice of Word …Mascot.
A Mascot is a “representative Good Luck Charm”…
So No, that was Not something Jesus aspired to Be.
* However… Jesus’ WAY, and His Example forthwith, is Exactly His Teaching for Parents, Teachers, Preachers, A Nations Authorities to Consider Adopting as their Standard.

He called us to become servants in His Kingdom.

Sure IN His Kingdom…and Voluntary Slave / Servant OF the King!

Christianity thrives when it offers the world an alternative to domination... not when it baptizes domination and calls it Christlike.

Slavery, Servitude, while having the ability to Appear Negative…HAS the Positive connotation … OF An individuals “WILLFUL surrender”…
Jesus Himself, (on Earth), Example…surrendered His Will to God IN Heaven.
Jesus Himself, (on Earth), Example…
surrendered His Will to Earthly Governing Authorities.
That is Either a mans CHRIST-Like Example to Adopt…
Or Not.

And Jesus conquered the world
from a cross.
Not a throne."

Jesus, Provided the Example Option for men on Earth to Adopt, or Not.

A Throne is the Seat, of the Head, Chief, Governing Authority, OF a Kingdom and it’s inhabitants.

The Lord God Almighty”s Kingdom, Throne, is Heaven. The World’s Inhabitants are being Offered, and those Taking the Offering, are being Prepared… for the Day, WHEN…
THIS WORLD, All World Kingdoms, SHALL BE Conquered, Established, Dominated and Consumed, by the Expansion of Gods Kingdom and Throne Seat of Governance and It’s Willing Submissive, Servants.

THAT has NOT YET OCCURRED…
Still in The Preparatory Phase.

Your Distain of any World Governmental Nations Chief Authorities Desiring to follow Jesus’ WAY, is Glaring.

:(

Glory to God,
Taken
 

markalan

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Speaking of the Word of God how about ?

John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.

Caesar (worldly kingdoms) and Jesus (heavenly Kingdom) don't go well, are opposites. By birth we are forced to live in a world full of Caesar's who want to fight, start wars. Politics, extreme nationalism and religion is a toxic mix as history has proven us multiple times, the Roman Catholic Church, popes going to war as most striking example. So glad our constitutions learned from that (man not able, only Christ, just be patience) and separated Church from State, do not strive to make the same mistake again.

No one is suggesting Christians physically fight to take control of the government.

However, there are many ways we can fight by using our influence to support and promote legislation, at the local, state & federal level, that aligns with traditional Biblical values.
 
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MatthewG

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All I know is that I do love the country I live in, and I’m thankful for the president. I also believe Romans 13 is right about letting the government handle its responsibilities, as long as it doesn’t interfere with a person’s ability to worship God.

Back in the days of Nebuchadnezzar, they would literally throw people into fire for not obeying the king. Thankfully, we don’t live in times like that anymore. There are extremists out there on both sides — some who push nationalism too far, and others who would gladly punish people for their beliefs — but those groups don’t represent everyone.

As for me, I don’t believe any earthly nation is “Christian.” The only Christian nation is the heavenly one — the kingdom of God. That’s where my loyalty ultimately is.

That’s just my stance in the end.
 

MatthewG

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All I know is that I do love the country I live in, and I’m thankful for the president. I also believe Romans 13 is right about letting the government handle its responsibilities, as long as it doesn’t interfere with a person’s ability to worship God.

Back in the days of Nebuchadnezzar, they would literally throw people into fire for not obeying the king. Thankfully, we don’t live in times like that anymore. There are extremists out there on both sides — some who push nationalism too far, and others who would gladly punish people for their beliefs — but those groups don’t represent everyone.

As for me, I don’t believe any earthly nation is “Christian.” The only Christian nation is the heavenly one — the kingdom of God. That’s where my loyalty ultimately is.

That’s just my stance in the end.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with people going to their local councils and trying to change laws, as long as they do it the right way. I don’t believe God condemns anyone for being involved in politics. The problem is when people start dividing into groups and becoming hostile toward each other. There are extremists on both sides — some pushing nationalism too far, and others who want to punish people for their beliefs.

For me personally, I don’t believe any earthly nation is “Christian.” The only true Christian nation is the heavenly one. That’s the home I’m really waiting for. I’d rather be with God already, but He keeps me here for His own reasons.

On a different note, my mom has been having heart issues lately. Her heart will suddenly start beating faster than normal at random times during the day. She probably won’t have insurance again until August, so she can’t get it checked yet.

I told her straight up that I’m just thankful she hasn’t had a stroke or a heart attack, because sometimes it happens while she’s at work or at home.

And I reminded her, “God gave us life, and He can take it away.” She said, “Matthew, you’re right. We just have to keep going until then.”

And I do believe it is okay to just leave people be, regardless of what they might believe! All of us are responsible for ourselves.

You are all paying your own internet bill correct?
 

quietthinker

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Christianity began with no army, no political party, no courts, no national flag, and no emperor ....and no cheer leaders with short skirts jumping up and down
 

quietthinker

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All I know is that I do love the country I live in, and I’m thankful for the president. I also believe Romans 13 is right about letting the government handle its responsibilities, as long as it doesn’t interfere with a person’s ability to worship God.

Back in the days of Nebuchadnezzar, they would literally throw people into fire for not obeying the king. Thankfully, we don’t live in times like that anymore. There are extremists out there on both sides — some who push nationalism too far, and others who would gladly punish people for their beliefs — but those groups don’t represent everyone.

As for me, I don’t believe any earthly nation is “Christian.” The only Christian nation is the heavenly one — the kingdom of God. That’s where my loyalty ultimately is.

That’s just my stance in the end.
Ahhh, now that you mentioned Nebuchadnezzar, Babylon the Great is in process of bursting onto the scene.
 

markalan

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It doesn't matter. They're still not saved. Most Christians today have been shamed into not saying that unsaved children are damned, but that's what the bible teaches. We're seeing similar concessions from the church with regards to suicide as well.

The Bible does not say children are damned ... it says “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven. (Mat 18:10).
What's more important? Some religious law about teaching the bible in school, or making sure that children cab attend school without being brutally murdered by some nut job with a firearm?

The Bible can teach them about eternal life ... gun control could only protect their mortal life ... though "nut jobs"will still get guns.

Even so, the two are not mutually exclusive.
This is basic stuff that every other developed western country has been able to figure out, much like healthcare, except the United States. Because this country is full of stupid people that would rather argue over abortion rights while their own children can't even feel safe while attending school.
Here in Australia we have fairly strict gun control legislation ... and I am not opposed to that ... but we can, and should, also care about the unborn children who are killed every day.

.
 

Taken

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The "whole" are complicit in the murders by shrugging their shoulders every time a child is murdered with a firearm.

Individuals…React when ANYONE is Murdered., Killed, Dies by whatever Cause.

Every human Body, Shall Die…
God Himself REQUIRES that Fate.

Some mourn, some sympathize, some console, some advocate limited prevention measures, some jump on a bandwagon to punish everyone by liberty suppression.

Every Individual shall be Accountable for their choices and deeds.

In short, punishing one for another’s choices is NOT Gods Principle.

Take Away, fire arms…then what?
Spears, Axes, Knives, Hammers, Screwdrivers, Automobiles, Poisons, Drugs, etc.? Those all can, have caused Deaths.

And the “Curiosity”…that has “Snuck into the Legal System as a Defense to Avoid Accountability”…
WHY, WHY, WHY did they commit the Act…
Pickings … from a “L-O-NG list of MENTAL (salad soup) to pick from to Lesson the Accountability… :(