Christian Nationalism

[Ziggy]

Christianity began with no army, no political party, no courts, no national flag, and no emperor ....and no cheer leaders with short skirts jumping up and down

Neither did the church in the wilderness when they left Egypt. God instructed Moses how to do that.
They had an army, they had judges, they had Standards, and they had the Lord to follow day and night, by fire and by cloud. And God gave them Moses to lead them. They had singers and those that played instruments, and Gave Glory to God.
King David also led Israel with all those.
The new church also in the wilderness, began under Roman rule and oppressed by the Religious leaders.
Our army is the Body of Christ, Our Political Party is Righteousness, Our Courts are the Law of the Spirit, and Our Flag is our Name Christian, Our Emperor is the Lord God Almighty and Jesus Christ is King.

Psa 100:2
Serve the LORD with gladness: come before his presence with singing.
Col 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

 

[Ziggy]

I can hardly believe my ears that any born again believer would call the milk that the old covenant Israelites were feeding on, meat. Even the milk that new Christian believers drink as the basic fundamentals of the faith is higher (more spiritual) than what the Israelites had.

The physical battles that Israel engaged in are only allegories/parables speaking to the spiritual battle/warfare that the church is engaged in. Our weapons are not carnal like the Israelites' were. The Living Word, Jesus, speaks to us in parables. And if anyone has ears to hear, once again, even David was not able to build God's house with blood on His hands. That is not how Christ is building His kingdom.

If you remember rightly, which I doubt you do, It wasn't because David led armies into wars against the Philistines or others that would challenge them.
It was because he had an adulterous relationship and then had her husband put on the frontline to killed so he wouldn't find out about her pregnancy.

That is the blood on his hands that God said he could not build His House with.

A lot of people today have a lot of blood on their hands and still call themselves christians.
Not because they go to war to defend but to cover their own sin.

I'm sure there is some cotton balls at the store you can invest in so you don't have to hear the Truth.

 

[Lizbeth]

If you remember rightly, which I doubt you do, It wasn't because David led armies into wars against the Philistines or others that would challenge them.
It was because he had an adulterous relationship and then had her husband put on the frontline to killed so he wouldn't find out about her pregnancy.

That is the blood on his hands that God said he could not build His House with.

A lot of people today have a lot of blood on their hands and still call themselves christians.
Not because they go to war to defend but to cover their own sin.

I'm sure there is some cotton balls at the store you can invest in so you don't have to hear the Truth.

Ears to hear, sister:

1Ch 22:8-9

But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.

Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days.

His house is not built by the flesh (wars), but by God, His Spirit ,when the flesh is at rest and out of the way (dead to itself/crucified with Christ).

 

[Wrangler]

If we are still following a carnal commandment

Never heard of a carnal commandment. Does using the adjective carnal make it invalid?

Jesus told us to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s. Is that an invalid commandment?

 

[Wrangler]

He certainly has changed the priesthood and therefore the law that we are to follow.

The things one reads online!

 

[Wrangler]

The physical battles that Israel engaged in are only allegories/parables speaking to the spiritual battle/warfare that the church is engaged in.

The things one reads online! Jesus fed his friends physical, carnal fish he grilled on the shores of Galilee. Spiritual fish wouldn’t give them the nourishment their God given bodies need.

 

[Ziggy]

Ears to hear, sister:

1Ch 22:8-9

But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.

Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days.

His house is not built by the flesh (wars), but by God, His Spirit ,when the flesh is at rest and out of the way (dead to itself/crucified with Christ).

 

[Ziggy]

Psa 110:4
The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Gen 14:14
And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.
Gen 14:15
And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus.
Gen 14:16
And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

Gen 14:18
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
Gen 14:19
And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
Gen 14:20
And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

 

[Ziggy]

 

[Justified]

It is the ungodly media who are defining "Christian nationalism" as any Christian influence on how society functions.
Don't let the ungodly tell you what words mean.

Mat 5:14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden.

I’m actually letting other believers tell me what it means, including those who claim to be followers of Christ and are “Christian nationalists.” Not the least of the problems is that nationalism, like socialism, liberalism, conservatism, etc., is a worldly ideology and all such ideologies are ultimately idolatry. How can Christianity be united with idolatry?

Christ changes the world through changing hearts, not by enacting laws, imposing values, or going to war. He requires us to die to ourselves daily and to walk in humility by putting others ahead of ourselves, which are generally opposed to nationalism.

 

[Nancy]

Nancy, so much of what you wrote is wrong, it’s hard to know where to begin.



This is a natural, inevitable progression of societal evolution. Some things are in decline. Some things are ascendant.



That what prosecutors do, prosecute. Honestly, I’m dismayed you suppose this shouldn’t apply to Christian’s.



I’m not ashamed or embarrassed in any way and reject the guilt trip we should be on. Do you know that God created slavery?

In Biblical times of Joseph, the people begged to be slaves as a merciful alternative to starving to death during a terrible drought.

I could write so much in defense of colonialism. God is a warrior and there should be no surprise whatsoever that his children, made in his image, would be warriors also. There should be surprise if we weren’t warriors.



Indeed. See Odoro Amoris.

• Isaiah 1:17: "Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.
• Psalm 11:5: "The Lord examines the righteous, but the wicked, those who love violence, he hates with a passion."
• 
  
• Leviticus 19:33-34: "When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born..."

"R. Yitzĥak de Leon, author of Megilat Esther, understands the oaths to mean that "we may not rebel against the nations and conquer Eretz Yisrael by force," and this is what the Sages meant when they stated that we may not ascend "on a wall." Based on this, he concludes that there is no mitzva to settle Eretz Yisrael until the Messiah arrives."

"The prophet Elijah confronts Ahab, pronouncing severe judgment on him and Jezebel for their sins of murder and property theft. The narrative underscores that social injustice and the oppression of the vulnerable are direct violations of God's law."

Jesus directly commands his followers to break the cycle of hatred by showing kindness and praying for those who mistreat them. [1, 2]

• Matthew 5:43-48: Jesus explicitly states, "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." He explains that God shows common grace to everyone by causing His sun to rise on both the evil and the good. [1]
• Luke 6:27-36: Jesus further instructs to do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and lend without expecting anything in return, reflecting the mercy of the Father. [1, 2]
• Romans 12:20-21: The Apostle Paul builds on this by commanding believers to meet an enemy's basic needs: "If your enemies are hungry, feed them; if they are thirsty, give them something to drink." [1]

Love for Your Neighbor
The New Testament elevates "loving your neighbor" to the second greatest commandment, fulfilling the entire law. [1]

• Matthew 22:37-40: Jesus replies to a Pharisee, stating that the second greatest commandment is to "Love your neighbor as yourself." This is originally rooted in the Old Testament, but reiterated as central to the Christian faith. [1]
• Romans 13:8-10: Paul explains that love does no wrong to a neighbor. He sums up all commandments (not murdering, stealing, or coveting) into this single rule. [1, 2]
• James 2:8: James refers to loving one's neighbor as the "royal law found in Scripture," warning against showing favoritism or partiality. [1, 2]

You can read a detailed breakdown of these teachings and how they apply to daily life across Bible Gateway's Matthew 5 Passage or the Open Bible Info Topic Collection. [1, 2, 3]

Seems that many ignore these facts, sadly. You have your "opinions". I have scripture back up galore.

God help you.

 

[Lizbeth]

Psa 110:4
The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Gen 14:14
And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.
Gen 14:15
And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus.
Gen 14:16
And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

Gen 14:18
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
Gen 14:19
And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
Gen 14:20
And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Can you not see the parable/allegory there? Spiritual captivity and deliverance? Tithes/thanks to the High Priest who is after another order than the Law?

 

[Bombastic]

I have written on this subject, from the time of the 13 colonies to 1776. The First Amendment and how it is understood today have almost no resemblance at all to the original intent. Whether liberal or today's conservative interpreters stand on the same principle, if intent is the correct premise, then every argument is wrong no matter how rational or logical sounding. The culture has created a dark veil that many cannot see out of, or rather, a premise that goes unchecked. Unfortunately, "precedence" has created a long list of cases throughout the last century or more. And even more so, I think this nation is too far gone from the original intent, and the same people that caused the issues always have the solution: "Man knows best."

The Black-Robed Regiment: How Calvinist Preachers Forged the First Amendment’s Christian Soul - Isaiah School

Explore the strict original intent of the First Amendment through the lens of the Revolutionary War's Calvinist 'Black Regiment.' From Tyndale's printing press to battlefield chaplains, discover why America's founders envisioned a Protestant Christian republic—not modern secular pluralism...

isaiah.school

 

[Ziggy]

Can you not see the parable/allegory there? Spiritual captivity and deliverance? Tithes/thanks to the High Priest who is after another order than the Law?

This isn't about Moses Law or the Ten Commandments, or the 613 ordinances and statutes.
An allegory doesn't mean it didn't happen, it means it is an example.

There are 2 ways the Lord works, Through the flesh and in the heart.
Not by the flesh or of the flesh, but his will works through us.
Which happen to still be walking on the earth.

I used to keep my head in the clouds, and then I found myself grounded, now I am somewhere in between, which is exactly where we meet the Lord.

 

[Nancy]

Without context, a single word can be construed to always be a negative.

A slave broadly implies, partial or complete surrender of Freewill, to an other.

Exactly…the Big Picture of Christ Jesus’ Request.




Obsessed, opens your Opinion with your negative (intended influencing) Opinion.

It is NOT an Obsession, rather, a DESIRE,
For Legislator's, to Not rely on “whims, wants, schemes…” and solely stick to the protocol upon which this Nation was Established…
ie… Gods Just Standards, Principles and Fixed Objectives.



Another negative choice of Word …Mascot.
A Mascot is a “representative Good Luck Charm”…
So No, that was Not something Jesus aspired to Be.
* However… Jesus’ WAY, and His Example forthwith, is Exactly His Teaching for Parents, Teachers, Preachers, A Nations Authorities to Consider Adopting as their Standard.



Sure IN His Kingdom…and Voluntary Slave / Servant OF the King!



Slavery, Servitude, while having the ability to Appear Negative…HAS the Positive connotation … OF An individuals “WILLFUL surrender”…
Jesus Himself, (on Earth), Example…surrendered His Will to God IN Heaven.
Jesus Himself, (on Earth), Example…
surrendered His Will to Earthly Governing Authorities.
That is Either a mans CHRIST-Like Example to Adopt…
Or Not.



Jesus, Provided the Example Option for men on Earth to Adopt, or Not.

A Throne is the Seat, of the Head, Chief, Governing Authority, OF a Kingdom and it’s inhabitants.

The Lord God Almighty”s Kingdom, Throne, is Heaven. The World’s Inhabitants are being Offered, and those Taking the Offering, are being Prepared… for the Day, WHEN…
THIS WORLD, All World Kingdoms, SHALL BE Conquered, Established, Dominated and Consumed, by the Expansion of Gods Kingdom and Throne Seat of Governance and It’s Willing Submissive, Servants.

THAT has NOT YET OCCURRED…
Still in The Preparatory Phase.

Your Distain of any World Governmental Nations Chief Authorities Desiring to follow Jesus’ WAY, is Glaring.



Glory to God,
Taken

And your complete ignorance is glaring. Do you not realize that Satan has already for thousands of years now, has his own minions in the highest offices of govt., big corporations and especially the modern day churches.

Didn't Jesus say to Love your enemies? To bless those who persecute you? Among a whole lot of other things along those same lines.

• Isaiah 1:17: "Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.
• Psalm 11:5: "The Lord examines the righteous, but the wicked, those who love violence, he hates with a passion."
• 
  
• Leviticus 19:33-34: "When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born..."

The ultra Orthodox (true) Jews abide by the 3 Oaths: The 1st Oath is that Jews are not to take Israel by force and they are to wait for the return of their Messiah. You can look it up if you like. Either way, Jesus own words tell us to do the opposite of what is happening in this world.

 

[Bombastic]

Didn't Jesus say to Love your enemies? To bless those who persecute you? Among a whole lot of other things along those same lines.

Psalm 139:21-23: Anybody's personal enemies are not necessary adversaries against G-d. However, it always amazes me how some will ignore what others state verbatim; that is, they reject G-d and hate His laws, statutes, and ordinances. Who am I to argue with what they clearly state and by what their actions convey?
David's hatred was not self-righteous; it was righteous.

 

[Nancy]

Psalm 139:21-23: Anybody's personal enemies are not necessary adversaries against G-d. However, it always amazes me how some will ignore what others state verbatim; that is, they reject G-d and hate His laws, statutes, and ordinances. Who am I to argue with what they clearly state and by what their actions convey?
David's hatred was not self-righteous; it was righteous.

It's all about integrity and checking oneself before God.
Believers are called to hate the sin while extending Christlike love to the individual. I see the opposite happening.

Welcome to the forums, I hope you will enjoy your time here.

 

[Bombastic]

It's all about integrity and checking oneself before God.
Believers are called to hate the sin while extending Christlike love to the individual. I see the opposite happening.

Welcome to the forums, I hope you will enjoy your time here.

Thank you for the welcome, Nancy! Much appreciated.
We should each examine ourselves so that G-d won't judge us.
I too only see "individual hope" rather than "national" or covenant solidarity; that is, rather than the local church, the universal catholic church today resembles more the national environment.
I'd also like to add to what I was stating that supports what you shared:

Jesus was addressing the abuse of the Lex Talionis. Persons abused it for personal vendettas; everything Jesus taught on this issue—turn the other cheek, love your enemy, give them the shirt off your back, go the extra mile, etc.—has been twisted enough to make people believe they should welcome victimization and that Jesus abolished the Lex Talionis or the Noahide commandment to establish courts of law.
I don't want to appear to be a spammer, and I'll refrain after this about posting direct links to my personal writings. I engaged in this thread because it is of personal interest, and I've been studying and writing on this subject for quite awhile. Please, don't be concerned; I don't off community platform services (no conflict of interest). If anybody finds this interesting and would like to consider further reading:

Excerpt on the topic of the Lex Talionis:
"Jesus addresses this directly in the Sermon on the Mount: “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also” (Matthew 5:38–39; see also Luke 6:29). He continues with commands to go the extra mile, give generously, and love enemies.

Jesus is not abolishing justice or commanding believers to welcome victimization, false accusation, or systemic evil. He is confronting the Pharisaic misuse of the law for personal retaliation rather than judicial process." Source: Part 2: The Well Dressed Muse in the Worst Actionable Context - Isaiah School

Soli Deo Gloria
G-d bless

 

[Wrangler]

Seems that many ignore these facts, sadly. You have your "opinions". I have scripture back up galore.

God help you.

Dear Nancy, it is very sad that you didn't respond to a single thing I wrote. You ignored the fact that God is a warrior and it should surprise no one that so are his children. And you ignored Odoro Amoris.

What I observe in much of Christendom is a complete lack of discernment of our many roles. We are not just spiritual children of God. It's funny because so often many say Jesus was not just such and such but do not apply that to his brothers and sisters, us.
SPIRITUAL. Yes, we are children of God, which is what being a Christian is all about.
SOULFUL. And we are also to give to Caesar what is Caesars.

God has helped me mightily and you project your own ignoring of Scripture. The galore you refer to are spiritual verses that have to do with the spiritual life of a Christian and have NOTHING to do with being a nationalist. There are a galore of verses in support of that as well. Before I throw pearls before swine, I'll wait for you to acknowledge the many verses I've already cited.

And I won't do to you what you've done to me. I will address what you've actually posted.

• Isaiah 1:17: "Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.

That's what being a Christian nationalist is all about; Isaiah 1:17, seeking justice.

• Psalm 11:5: "The Lord examines the righteous, but the wicked, those who love violence, he hates with a passion."

This loving violence applies to the illegal invaders who violate our immigration laws - as one current application.

• Leviticus 19:33-34: "When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born..."

Are you implying that a foreigner in Leviticus is the exact same thing as the lawlessness that comes from illegal invasions?

"The prophet Elijah confronts Ahab, pronouncing severe judgment on him and Jezebel for their sins of murder and property theft. The narrative underscores that social injustice and the oppression of the vulnerable are direct violations of God's law."

Without Christian nationalists, there would be no opposition to the oppression of the vulnerable Americans who are raped, murdered, trafficked and killed by fentanyl from illegal invaders. Where is your love for the oppressed and vulnerable Americans?

Jesus directly commands his followers to break the cycle of hatred by showing kindness and praying for those who mistreat them. [1, 2]

• Matthew 5:43-48: Jesus explicitly states, "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." He explains that God shows common grace to everyone by causing His sun to rise on both the evil and the good. [1]
• Luke 6:27-36: Jesus further instructs to do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and lend without expecting anything in return, reflecting the mercy of the Father. [1, 2]
• Romans 12:20-21: The Apostle Paul builds on this by commanding believers to meet an enemy's basic needs: "If your enemies are hungry, feed them; if they are thirsty, give them something to drink." [1]

Apples and Oranges. Personal commands are not to be construed to condon treason. While I may "love my enemy" on a personal level, that must be recognized within the confines of give to Caesar what is Caesars, which may mean killing them in battle - directly or indirectly.

Love for Your Neighbor
The New Testament elevates "loving your neighbor" to the second greatest commandment, fulfilling the entire law. [1]

For some reason, you lack discernment of loving my neighbor includes guiding the nation to protect him from illegal invaders. I'll say it again, Odoro Amoris.

 

[Ziggy]

Lev 24:22
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.

You a foreigner? You want access to our country?
You Obey Our laws.
Easy peasy.
You don't want to , then there is the door.