NO. Jesus never promised us a rose garden. He was very clear that we would have tribulation and persecution in this world. We're not here to fight for a comfortable life but to lose our lives that we might keep it unto eternal life, and if we seek to save our life we will lose it. What bible are you reading man? (SMH)
Christian Nationalism
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Mat 16:25 is not talking about allowing yourself to be killed
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Wrangler
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This is deranged, masochism. Christian Nationalism is NOT an application of a promise Christ made but our living up to our responsibilities to
- fulfill the command God gave us to DO JUSTICE
- fulfill the command Jesus gave us to Give to Caesar What is Caesar's.
- In addition, where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom per 2 Corinthians 3:17, which means we have the freedom to create Christian Nations.
Wrangler
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For the convenience of @Nancy and @Lizbeth, I have compiled a list of unanswered questions in this very important thread topic. I look forward to your well thought out answers.
Expanding on Q3. What does the LORD think of Christian nationalism?
Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD said to Abram, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. 2 And I will make of you a great nation.
God is not a Globalist but a nationalist.
A. He recognizes the Pagan country that Abram and his family live in.
B. He commands colonialism, going to another land. The purpose for which is:
C. To make a new nation, a nation that will become great due to the people God has chosen, i.e., not multiculturalism, not the perversion that everyone is equal in God's eyes.
- Why do you ignore Ordoro Amoris in living up to our responsibilities to God and to the State as good citizens to guide it toward justice, peace and prosperity (Give to Caesar What Is Caesar's)?
- Why do you ignore that YHWH is a warrior in command of divine armies, is who we are made in the image of, who commanded his chosen people to kill women, children, babies and animals? Thus no one should be surprised that his children are also warriors?
- What does the LORD think of Christian nationalism? See Genesis 12:1 from post 182 below.
- What is your reply to the idea that meeting the needs of the body, the flesh is not a lustful sin?
- What is your response to the idea that it is not the exclusive burden for those outside the church to do justice?
- To those Christians who oppose Christian Nationalism, just what set of principles should a nation be built if not on Christ and God's Word? (Asking for a friend who knows where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom via 2 Corinthians 3:17)
Expanding on Q3. What does the LORD think of Christian nationalism?
Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD said to Abram, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. 2 And I will make of you a great nation.
God is not a Globalist but a nationalist.
A. He recognizes the Pagan country that Abram and his family live in.
B. He commands colonialism, going to another land. The purpose for which is:
C. To make a new nation, a nation that will become great due to the people God has chosen, i.e., not multiculturalism, not the perversion that everyone is equal in God's eyes.
You mean your flesh rose up and you briefly stopped being a Christian....? I know what it feels like when the mother bear/father bear rises up and takes over. I had to protect my little boy from a big aggressive dog once. Not a doubt in my mind I was going to kill that dog with my bare hands....it backed down. So I know what it feels like....pure animal, a beast. Instinct taking over. Queen of the jungle, hear me roar. That's the nature of the flesh. It felt good, I felt strong, and I took pride in it. But hindsight and coming to know Christ later on makes me know that in truth I was no better than the dog in that moment. And dogs don't inherit the kingdom of heaven.
I wonder whether you had any thought or concern for that 15 years old's soul. Likely for him to be beating on a little five year old things are probably not going well at home. Did you take the opportunity to show the love of Christ to him and perhaps be an example or mentor and father figure to show and teach him a better way? All you had to do was step between them to stop him hitting your child, sounds like, and maybe get hold of his punching arm if necessary? A rebuke....followed by some expression of love and concern for his life and well-being maybe? I'm not going to necessarily judge someone for the heat of the moment....but if they did not act as a Christian in that moment, and are still justifying themself after the fact and the danger is past, and not learning from it, something is very wrong. Why are they not thinking like a Christian and seeing it through Christ's eyes? I hope in a situation like that I would have sought for and had grace to try and settle the situation as I would between two of my own children who I loved, for the benefit of both, and not having hatred in my heart for one of them.
Whatever the situation requires, I believe....either to die to ourselves and life in this world in a spiritual sense or to lose our life physically...... rather than deny or disobey Christ. Either way, it means not loving our lives unto death. The point is that the bible is not teaching that we are to seek and battle for a better and more comfortable life in this world........it is teaching that we are exchanging our life in this world to gain a life that is eternal.
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You really have an extraordinary imagination Lizbeth.
I am a Christian man who took appropriate physical action to restrain an out of control teenager harming others.
Your comments suggest if confronted by a maniac using a knife to kill others (as happened here recently) your response would be to do a little calming exercise ... good luck with that!!
As a husband and father I gladly 'battled' to give my family a better life ... as 1 Timothy 5:8 instructs a man to do.
Taxes, that's all Jesus was talking about. And not because it is necessary from heaven's point of view, the sons are exempt. But in order to not offend people of the world who couldn't possible understand......in submitting to government we are submitting to God's will. Doesn't mean you can't vote if you can do so with a clear conscience, and it doesn't mean you can't simply express your preferences or suggestions to government if you want to.......... but the SOLE mission and mandate Jesus gave to the church is to go and make disciples, not to be entangled in affairs of this world. Our energies and resources and focus needs to be on making disciples, saving souls and building up the church not being distracted and diverted from our mission by worldly concerns and strifes.
We are spiritual warriors of a spiritual kingdom. Our weapons are NOT CARNAL. Again, what bible are you reading? This is clear and simple teaching.
I'm sure He thinks it is a way that seemeth right to the natural man but leads to death.
Mat 6:24-34
“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
“Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?
“Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?
“Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?
“So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin;
“and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
“Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
“Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’
“For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
“But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
Ziggy
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Wrangler
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No way. Not one little bit. Sure, the context was taxes but the principle expressed is universal. You must know this. Romans 13.
Sorry if I read too much into your post....it sounded as if you went and hurt the boy. The way people are talking around here. I don't believe there is anything wrong with simply restraining someone if that is what is needed. We can exercise common wisdom without hurting or killing someone.
Providing for the needs of your family as an individual has nothing to do with thinking it is the God-given mission and responsibility of the church to be enmeshed in the political arena and take up arms on behalf of earthly kingdoms.
PS95
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I would like someone who knows what they are talking about to specifically define what Christian Nationalist is.
It seems to be a derogatory term aimed at believers who vote? I've noticed that the very same people on here who opposed voting for a president of the USA are the same ones now using this term.
So in your opinion- a believer should stay far away from anything having to do with the way their country is run?
I recall being told I worshipped Trump because I said I would vote for him. There are some ridiculous things said by you guys.
I was also told Trump is the antichrist. I mean, seriously? Pray for discernment. Your arguments lose all credibility when you say the things that you do.
So if there is a rational explanation for what a Christian Nationalist is and why you see that as such a horrible threat- please explain yourselves because all I see see is ignorance, accusations, fear, hypocrisy, legalism and extremism on both sides of this.
Surely, we can come together like reasonable people.
I understand the SDA position that @Brakelite has- I am not interested in that. It's been discussed and is based on an interpretation of a prophecy of Ellen White with whom I have no confidence in. No offense Brakelite, but it goes nowhere with me since I have looked into it all I care to- and far more than most people have.
@Nancy - does this have anything to do with your concerns about Noahide laws? if not- what is this about? Our country was founded by believers and many of our laws were based on the scriptures.
When believers don't vote- they only aid the unbelievers who vote-and the country goes lower and lower. WE do have to live here. We do have children and grandchildren. Why is it so wrong not to want them to have to live under subjection to the most wicked people?
Do you think it's a sin to vote?
Can we get to the real core of this? It seeps into the forum too often not to be understood clearly and as of yet, I see nothing but fears and false accusations. Thanks
It seems to be a derogatory term aimed at believers who vote? I've noticed that the very same people on here who opposed voting for a president of the USA are the same ones now using this term.
So in your opinion- a believer should stay far away from anything having to do with the way their country is run?
I recall being told I worshipped Trump because I said I would vote for him. There are some ridiculous things said by you guys.
I was also told Trump is the antichrist. I mean, seriously? Pray for discernment. Your arguments lose all credibility when you say the things that you do.
So if there is a rational explanation for what a Christian Nationalist is and why you see that as such a horrible threat- please explain yourselves because all I see see is ignorance, accusations, fear, hypocrisy, legalism and extremism on both sides of this.
Surely, we can come together like reasonable people.
I understand the SDA position that @Brakelite has- I am not interested in that. It's been discussed and is based on an interpretation of a prophecy of Ellen White with whom I have no confidence in. No offense Brakelite, but it goes nowhere with me since I have looked into it all I care to- and far more than most people have.
@Nancy - does this have anything to do with your concerns about Noahide laws? if not- what is this about? Our country was founded by believers and many of our laws were based on the scriptures.
When believers don't vote- they only aid the unbelievers who vote-and the country goes lower and lower. WE do have to live here. We do have children and grandchildren. Why is it so wrong not to want them to have to live under subjection to the most wicked people?
Do you think it's a sin to vote?
Can we get to the real core of this? It seeps into the forum too often not to be understood clearly and as of yet, I see nothing but fears and false accusations. Thanks
Only if you're white and male, with a very specific (and un-Christian, anti-Christ) take on a "Christ-centred" society.
Give honour to whom you owe it, pay taxes/tribute to whom you owe it. Submit to governing authorities. Yes. But it is surely not a mandate to violate the teachings of Christ and the apostles. You are stretching it way too far and looking for something that is not there.
I believe in using the minimum force to manage a situation. In the case of the maniac killing people in a shopping mall here, the man was shot dead after killing 6 people and sending 10 more to hospital.
Ziggy
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They don't want you to Love your country,
and they sure don't want you to Love God.
Therefore Christian Nationals scare the hell out of them
and they sure don't want you to Love God.
Therefore Christian Nationals scare the hell out of them
Are you talking to yourself or no one in particular? Again, "Christian nationalism" is an oxymoron; those are mutually exclusive ideologies/beliefs. One follows Christ and one is idolatry.
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