Christian Tithe?

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Gospel Believer

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How one gives is what matters with God: "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity" (2Co 9:7).

One gives according to how they want to give. "He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully" (2Co 9:6).

If you have the Holy Spirit within you, that Spirit will “ make” a giver out of you ......Just try to “ stop” a person with the proper Spirit in them that drives their Giving that is properly done with a Sprit Of Love and Gratitude...it cant be done.....that is the “ hilarious” giving that God is looking for....
 
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Netchaplain

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If you have the Holy Spirit within you, that Spirit will “ make” a giver out of you ......Just try to “ stop” a person with the proper Spirit in them that drives their Giving that is properly done with a Sprit Of Love and Gratitude...it cant be done.....that is the “ hilarious” giving that God is looking for....
Amen, and God bless!
 
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Gospel Believer

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True, and being led by the Spirit causes us to give more than 10%.

The early Believers gave up Everything—- and NOT because they were co- erced to do it because of a Threatening Law....as I say.....they could not be held back from doing so....it is the same way with “ cheerful “ givers....
 

GRACE ambassador

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op: Christian tithe?
no such thing:

Israel (Judaism), under prophecy/covenants/law:

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Body Of Christ(ianity), under Grace, According To The Revelation Of The Mystery:

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Precious friend(s):

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)
! ← More 'Bible Contrasts'...
 

Adventageous

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We don't need to offer sacrifices.
I can only assume you mean carnal "sacrifices", or do you mean all "sacrifices"? If so, what of,

Psa_51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.​

Do you believe that you are to still offer these "sacrifices"? If so, why? Aren't they under that 'old covenant', that old 'burden' and 'bondage', only given to the 'Hebrews, Israelites, Jews', a psalm of that Israelite "David" a "king of the 'Jews'", as is so often regurgitated mindlessly (ie, without thinking it through, being self-contradictory)?

What about this "sacrifice"?

Heb_13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.​

Wait, isn't that only written to "Hebrews", and citing the Psalms, again only for the 'old covenant', written to 'Hebrews, Israelites, Jews', as is so often parroted?

Psa_54:6 I will freely sacrifice unto thee: I will praise thy name, O LORD; for it is good.​

Didn't Paul state in Hebrews that "we have an altar"?
Heb_13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.​
I had thought Jesus became a great High priest to minister "sacrifices" before His Father in Heaven.

Doesn't God require "living sacrifice" still of body (flesh) and mind (spirit)?

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.​
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.​
What of these?

Php_2:17 Yea, and if I be offered upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I joy, and rejoice with you all.​
Php_4:18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.​
 

Adventageous

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I agree that "works" plays a role in our service to God. It just doesn't save us with respect to Eternal Life.
Since you agreed with me in the first, why do you assume I do not believe the second? Show me, in any place that I have posted/responded in all this forum (or in any other) where I teach that we need to work to earn salvation or for eternal life? I'll wait ...
 

Adventageous

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You could be an encouraging source instead of being an "accuser of the brethren" (Rev 12:10). Would be a nice change! God bless!!
You do not see (because you are "blind") that you are the actual accuser. This is not meant in any harsh way, but a simple statement of fact. Because I show from scripture that tithing is in the NT under NC for those in J.C., and long before the old "C", in the OT, you, as others, accuse me, of teaching works salvation, and trying to teach Christians to live under the OC, which is simply a false accusation, a false charge, even a blatant misrepresentation of what I have stated, a strawman of your own imaginations. Untrue in every way.

In Malachi, God said, through the prophet Malachi that those who do not return tithes & offerings are robbing God of means and mankind, and this in the context of verse 1, the New Covenant with the messenger of the Covenant, Jesus Christ. Did I accuse? Nope. I amen'ed what Malachi said on God's behalf as under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. What do you call someone who robs God? God identifies them as "thieves", who shall not inherit the Kingdom (full stop). It's not an accusation, but an identification of facts, a statement of truth, simply restated in agreement with scripture (Isaiah 8:20).

The devil doesn't return tithes and true offerings to God either. He's a thief, and robbed God of precious things and persons of Heaven. He was the one that taught Cain to come with what he thought he should bring, even with a smile on his face, and why?, for Lucifer thought he could bring to God his own self-righteousness, his own making of self-law, his own way to do things. Oh the devil will come to church and give an offering to God even cheerfully, so long as it is not what God actually asked for.

Am I the devil? or you?

Joh_6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?​
 

Randy Kluth

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I can only assume you mean carnal "sacrifices", or do you mean all "sacrifices"? If so, what of,

Psa_51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.​
No, I was speaking of animal sacrifices under the Law--not the generic kind of sacrifices we make when we give up our own desires for the desires of someone else, including God. The sacrifice of our carnal will for God's spiritual will is something that has had to take place in all circumstances, in all times, and under every covenant.

So I was speaking specifically of sacrifices of animals under Old Covenant Law. Our NT sacrifice was Christ on the cross.
 

Randy Kluth

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Since you agreed with me in the first, why do you assume I do not believe the second? Show me, in any place that I have posted/responded in all this forum (or in any other) where I teach that we need to work to earn salvation or for eternal life? I'll wait ...
I'm not sure what you're referring to? You said that OT Tithing and NT Giving have a direct equivalency, or at least it sounded like it. You denied my claim that there is no direct equivalency between the OT priesthood and NT ministerial needs.

And you said:
"Tithe isn't "out of law". It is out of Love."

I don't know what it is I agreed with you on, but it isn't this. I agree that there is a commonality between the need for priests to be supported and the need for NT ministers to be supported financially. But I do not agree that supplying priests with the means of service in the temple is a direct equivalency between that and the needs of NT ministers to serve their local churches.

In one case, the priests require animals to sacrifice. In the other case, NT ministers need a basic living allowance. In both cases, there is a need for a basic living allowance. The difference is that OT priests required animals to be sacrificed. The NT minister has no need to offer animal sacrifices. That was my point.

Obviously, with this major difference, there is no direct equivalency between OT and NT "priesthood." OT priests had to serve in such a way as to deal with Sin repeatedly, whereas in the NT pastors and teachers need only to point back to Christ's sacrifice on the cross to deal with Sin. There is no need to give a tenth of our "herds" and "flocks" to give to NT pastors!

While it is true that a "tenth" was given by Abraham to Melchizedek, this was not reiterated in NT teaching. The lesson behind Melchizedek formed a basis for OT laws governing the Tithe. A tenth was needed to supply both the financial well-being of the priests as well as the animals to be sacrificed.

But Melchizedek and the Tithe has no bearing on NT teaching because even though NT ministers need to make a living, they do *not* need to offer animals for sacrifice. That was the point I was trying to make.

Not even Melchizedek needed animals to be given him for him to sacrifice for God. But then again, Abraham didn't give to him repeatedly, or annually, as the Israelites were commanded to give under the Law.

Giving to Melchizedek one time provided a basis for the law of the Tithe. But it was a different kind of tithe than that required by the Law. The Tithe under the Law was exclusive to the Law, and had no direct equivalency either to the tithe paid to Melchizedek or to NT giving to church pastors.

You are making a different point, whatever it may be--perhaps having to do with our *motive* for giving. But not even giving a tenth of our "herds" and "flocks" is "given out of love" under the NT "priesthood." The OT Tithe most definitely was given out of "law." It should also have been given out of "love."

What took place under the Law of Moses did not preclude the need for it to be done out of "love." Everything God required under the Law was to be done out of "love for God." "You shall love the Lord your God." Tithing under the OT was nevertheless a "law." There is no NT equivalent of such a law.
 
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marksman

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What a gross mistake, and theft, even robbery of God, to claim such a false theology.

Tithe is still present in the NT, under the NC, and to be returned to Christ Jesus, at the storehouse.

You call yourself a "Chaplain" of Christ? You are cursed with a curse from God Himself.

Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.​

You are robbing God, not merely of means, but, and this more importantly, of persons. Context of Malachi 3? Vs 1. Jesus Christ and the New Covenant.

Hebrews 7, shows that Tithe was returned to Melchizedec (Type of Christ) long before "Levi", and this 'argument' was presented by Paul, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost Himself. Tithe principle goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden.

There is a great woe upon all who devour the Holy Tithe for their own ideas / plans.
Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;​
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;​
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.​
Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.​
Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:​
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.​
Heb 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.​
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.​
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.​
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.​
Continue to rob God, and teach robbery, and you will soon see what the cost of such thievery is.

Mat_21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.​
1Co_6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.​

Repent, and return to God what which is His by Creation and Redemption, before it is too late, and cease from this foolish piracy of righteousness.

Mat_5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.​
In other words, those in the Heavenly Kingdom, will call such thieves, lowlifes, and their name will be associated with nothing but contempt and shame, ultimately to perish in their piracy.
Talk about pharisaical judgment.
 

Randy Kluth

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Talk about pharisaical judgment.
Yes, Israel was cursed for giving the tithe in an inappropriate way, just as 2 sons of Aaron were cursed for offering "strange fire." The Law had to be upheld in a sincere and appropriate way, as long as that system remained in place.

God never judged Israel for not keeping the Law of sacrifice when He allowed the Babylonians to destroy the temple. Quite frankly, they *couldn't offer sacrifices in exile, because the conditions for doing so properly were not in place. They had to be in Jerusalem, they had to offer them in the temple area, and they had to be offered by priests doing their official duties.

In the same way there is no curse for Israel not offering animal sacrifices today because not only was the temple torn down, but Christ became a different kind of final sacrifice, making animal sacrifices unnecessary. The same thing, then, would go for the tithe, which not only provided the priests with a living, but also provided them with the sacrifices to offer. Being no longer required, the tithe was no longer in play, and there was no curse for not doing that.

But there is a curse for trying to put Christians back under the Law of Moses. Galatians was written to make that perfectly clear.

Gal 1.9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
Gal 3.10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

It is important, I think, to recognize that there are two different curses spelled out here, one making it a curse to reject the Gospel of Christ in favor of the Law, and two making it a curse to try to find justification under the Law. The Law was designed to amplify and to underscore the fact Man has sinned and is condemned as a sinner under the Law. There is no permanent release from the condemnation of the Law under that system.

At the same time, the Gospel of Christ declares that there is a remedy for the curse of the Law apart from the system of the Law, by relying exclusively upon the grace of Christ. And rejecting that Gospel so as to continue under the curse of the Law perpetuates that curse, and reaffirms the fact that redemptive remedies that had been made available under the Law had only been temporary and never were able to remove the curse of sin.
 
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Behold

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Reader.

the easy way to tithe is to understand one thing and then do one thing.

Understand, that all that you have, including your life, belongs to God already.
God purchased you with the Blood of Jesus if you are born again.
So, your life, money, health, car, bank account, all of this, is God's. You are just being allowed to use it.
So, when you give money, you are actually giving God's money away, and that is why it will GROW.
See, you're giving it back to Him, as its His already, and HE then reinvests it back to you as : 10fold, 20fold 100 fold..."the favor of God". come to you from "God riches in Glory".

So, if you want to tithe, but just can't seem to get enthused, then find a ministry that excites you.... and support it.
There are so many types...
How about "shoes for orphans", ministry?
How about "building a water supply, in Africa", where they dont have any running water in a village?

See that?
Find one that makes you feel that you WANT TO HELP:.....and that makes giving very easy.
Support that WORK with your money.

I like to give to the poor as i can SEE that they need it.

"Homeless" is slow torture, and they are everywhere., so, that is easy for me.

A story for you..

2 years ago, its Christmas day......and im working out........finishing.....its sbout 3am in the morning.
Im at an apartment complex.....there are Stairs outside, and im using them........going up and down carrying a weight.
Someone in the parking lot, is sleeping on the parking lot. And its COLD outside......He wakes up, and says....>"are you having a Merry Christmas.... and i said..>"well so far",..... and then he said.>"im glad someone is".
Reader, that just broke my heart.........to tears...

See that?
People are all around you...suffering.
Help them.
Just help them.
Help them, or find that ministry that causes you to want to help.
That is how you do it., as that type of giving just allows for JOY in the giving.

See, that helps you to be a "cheerful giver" as the NT teaches.
 
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Randy Kluth

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Reader.

the easy way to tithe is to understand one thing and then do one thing.

Understand, that all that you have, including your life, belongs to God already.
God purchased you with the Blood of Jesus if you are born again.
So, your life, money, health, car, bank account, all of this, is God's. You are just being allowed to use it.
So, when you give money, you are actually giving God's money away, and that is why it will GROW.
See, you're giving it back to Him, as its His already, and HE then reinvests it back to you as : 10fold, 20fold 100 fold..."the favor of God". come to you from "God riches in Glory".
Matt 25 does indicate that we, as God's servants, have been entrusted with His wealth. But the story does not indicate it is a "tithe" that is being spoken of. It sounds more like someone investing money like a financial agent, rather than someone tithing to God and to the priesthood.

Matt 25.27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

So, if you want to tithe, but just can't seem to get enthused, then find a ministry that excites you.... and support it.
There are so many types...
How about "shoes for orphans", ministry?
How about "building a water supply, in Africa", where they dont have any running water in a village?
This is more akin to Christian Liberalism, which fails to distinguish between giving to Christian ministries and giving to world needs, which can separate meeting human need from meeting spiritual need. The tithe, under the Law, was focused upon the priests providing temporary relief from the guilt of sin under its provisions, including animal sacrifice. Giving to meet needs outside of Israel may indeed be compassionate, but certainly had nothing to do with how the Law sought redemption for mankind.

Since Christ has already met our spiritual need for permanent redemption there is no NT "tithe" associated with meeting this need. Giving to Christian ministry, however, is a legitimate biblical principle, OT and NT, indicating that the saints should continue to support the spiritual need for mankind to find redemption. However, that redemption, today, is found only in the Gospel of Christ.

And so, we should support Christian ministry, if we are to properly follow the biblical principle of the "Tithe." There is no Christian Tithe, but there is indeed a principle of pursuing the means of redemption, which is now found in Christ alone. Meeting the worldly needs of Man, apart from Christian redemption, may be kind, but should never be decoupled from the message of Christian redemption, which alone meets the need of mankind for eternal redemption.

You may not have intended to "decouple" giving to worldly needs from giving to Christian ministries, since you did mention giving to various "ministries." However, when discussing any NT equivalent of the "tithe," we must clarify that the tithe had only to do with the matter of Israel's "redemption," and not with meeting the need for food outside of the priesthood--at least not as far as I know?

As I pointed out before, the "tithe" outside of the Law could be given to Melchizedek as a means of meeting the priestly needs of that particular man who was a priest. It was also not just giving for "human need" generally, but specifically as a matter of giving to a priest of God to express gratitude to God for helping Abraham defeat his enemies.

And so, Melchizedek's tithe was certainly not to be confused with affirming the "Tithe" outside of the Law either, since it was not the same thing, even if it was giving to a priest. It was not regular giving to him, but only a one-time gift, apparently given out of gratitude to God for deliverance from a particular battle.

The Tithe under the Law required regular giving of a tenth of agricultural produce. By contrast, Melchizedek was giving a tithe of "everything." So the Tithe of Melchizedek was not the Tithe of the Law either, though it may have offered a preliminary principle supporting it.

Trying to bring Christians back under the Law of Tithe is, however, a basic confusion with the provisions of the Law, which required a tenth of agricultural produce be given to the priests.. It is a basic confusion with the provisions of the Melchizedek Tithe that required a one-time gift of "everything."

We should recognize that there is no NT tithe, but that there is only a continuing principle of giving for the cause of human redemption, which is related to the Gospel of Christ. There is also the principle of being kind with respect to meeting worldly need, but only in connection with being a witness to the truth of human need for Christian redemption.

John 4.13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
 
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Behold

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This is more akin to Christian Liberalism, which fails to distinguish between giving to Christian ministries


Randy,

First of all, my post was not just addressing the tithe, but it was addressing giving in general.

Your comments sound as if you dont make it outside your church walls and into the real world very much.
You should make a change.
Start by doing research on the word CHARITY, as if you dont have that, you dont have Christ.

Listen, ..

God causes the rain to "fall on the good and on the evil".
God's mercy takes care of the bad people, and not just the pew warming "doer's of good".

God's salvation is giving to the sinners, not to the Righteous. as "Christ came to save the LOST".
So, if God gave His Son on the Cross, to his "enemies" and the "ungodly", then its a fine thing if we give God's blessing to any of the hurting.

When God said to Give to the Poor, He was not just talking about the Christian Church Poor., Randy Kluth.

Here is something you have not learned about Real Christianity... Its this... = People are convinced you care, when you help them, not when you beat them with theology.
Sharing Christ, is sharing God's love, .. not just talking about the bible or the Gospel.
See,... to the world, the Christian is the only Jesus they will ever see, as an unbeliever.
And if we love them by helping them, then that to them, that is Christ, and God.

So, to deny God's love given to the unsaved poor, the unsaved lost, and similar.. , as our money and time...... as you are teaching based on them not being a church member...., is to turn the idea of God's Love through us into ignorant bigotry.

Well, you continue to do that if you like, but i'll help them instead... I'll help that dirty one standing on the street holding the sign that says..."Homeless/Hungry".

Why?
Because Jesus would, Randy,.
You dont understand that yet, according to you post.

And the other reason i'd help them Randy, is because if it was not for the Grace of God, i could be the one standing there looking into your car, as you see me standing there, and you dont even care to help me.

I could be that person, and thank God im not.
 

Randy Kluth

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Randy,

First of all, my post was not just addressing the tithe, but it was addressing giving in general.
I addressed you the way I did precisely because you did not make that clear. Not just you need to be clear on what you're saying publicly, but the public also needs to know what you're saying. It's such an important issue with many that I felt it important to clarify. Sorry if you were offended by that.
Your comments sound as if you dont make it outside your church walls and into the real world very much.
You should make a change.
Start by doing research on the word CHARITY, as if you dont have that, you dont have Christ.
That was somewhat rude. Sounds like you don't accept much feedback?
Listen, ..

God causes the rain to "fall on the good and on the evil".
God's mercy takes care of the bad people, and not just the pew warming "doer's of good".

God's salvation is giving to the sinners, not to the Righteous. as "Christ came to save the LOST".
So, if God gave His Son on the Cross, to his "enemies" and the "ungodly", then its a fine thing if we give God's blessing to any of the hurting.

When God said to Give to the Poor, He was not just talking about the Christian Church Poor., Randy Kluth.

Here is something you have not learned about Real Christianity... Its this... = People are convinced you care, when you help them, not when you beat them with theology.
Sharing Christ, is sharing God's love, .. not just talking about the bible or the Gospel.
See,... to the world, the Christian is the only Jesus they will ever see, as an unbeliever.
And if we love them by helping them, then that to them, that is Christ, and God.

So, to deny God's love given to the unsaved poor, the unsaved lost, and similar.. , as our money and time...... as you are teaching based on them not being a church member...., is to turn the idea of God's Love through us into ignorant bigotry.

Well, you continue to do that if you like, but i'll help them instead... I'll help that dirty one standing on the street holding the sign that says..."Homeless/Hungry".

Why?
Because Jesus would, Randy,.
You dont understand that yet, according to you post.

And the other reason i'd help them Randy, is because if it was not for the Grace of God, i could be the one standing there looking into your car, as you see me standing there, and you dont even care to help me.

I could be that person, and thank God im not.
If people just fed and sheltered you, you wouldn't be a Christian interested in helping others the way you do. So it is vital that when we give we carry in our heart and mouth the love of Christ, as a testimony to what he has done in our lives. Without him we would not be so loving!

I'm not discouraging giving to non-Christians. And I'm not saying you have to leave a little Christian tract with every food basket you leave on a poor person's doorstep. What I'm saying is that on the specific issue of comparing the "Tithe" to Christian giving, there is no direct equivalent, period.

And I'm saying that the Christian Liberal sense in which giving has little difference between Christian giving and pagan giving, we need to focus our attention more on the Gospel than on giving. Our charity should shine as a witness not just to fellow Christians but also to the pagan world. But the tithe expressly indicated our need for redemption, which is even more important than our daily physical needs.

This was made clear when the job of deacons was created, to take care of the physical needs of our Christian assembly. The ministry of the word must remain preeminent, although failing to care for our own friends and relatives is a very un-Christian thing to do.