Christianity and Politics

[Wrangler]

Let me ask; did Jesus ever talk politics, did he take sides?

Yes, he did. It was limited because he was a subject, not a citizen with a civic duty to participate in the political process.

Funny, I was going to start this thread topic. Christian’s who don’t publicly state their positions on the issues of the day and vote make themselves irrelevant in the practical matters of today.

 

[doctrox]

The United States was ESTABLISHED on the Standards and Principles OF GODS WORD…

If so, then it should be easy to post documentation of same here.

 

[Wrangler]

Why would you want to mix the most corrupt group in the world with religion.

The healthy do not need a doctor.

 

[Berean]

Actually…a relationship between TWO requires TWO to choose.

Man was created with free will. So while you are correct that "TWO requires TWO to choose." We can choose NOT to obey.

Actually…God DEMANDS ALL shall believe IN Him….ALL SHALL believe IN Him.

Check your Bible ... not ALL shall believe in Him.

Actually…God DESIRES ALL shall become Soul Saved…..ALL SHALL NOT Become Soul saved….BECAUSE ALL SHALL NOT “choose” Him.

Seems like a contradiction, see your comments above, which I answered.

Actually….God KNOWS WHO Shall and WHO Shall NOT Become Soul Saved…AND in His Wisdom, has PREPARED a final Destination FOR EACH.

So you believe in Calvinism

 

[Taken]

Man was created with free will. So while you are correct that "TWO requires TWO to choose." We can choose NOT to obey.

.

Of course…and He..all knowing, knows our freewill choice BEFORE we do.

Check your Bible ... not ALL shall believe in Him.

YES all shall believe AND worship Him.
(It’s the TIMING…at Judgement!…and too late for redemption and salvation.)

Foretold in the OT;
Isa 45:
[23] I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Reiterated in the NT;
Rom 14:
[11] For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Seems like a contradiction, see your comments above, which I answered.

Disagree.

Not so. IF and WHEN a man BELIEVES…determines his eternal consequence.

So you believe in Calvinism

Not so…Don’t gaslight me.
I believe in the TRUTH.

If belief in the TRUTH is your definition of Calvinism…that’s your purgative.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Wrangler]

The intermingling of religion with politics n the US was inevitable.

Yes because human beings embrace a CENTRAL ORGANIZING PRINCIPLE, including hierarchy, in all things they do together, starting with the smallest possible unit, the family. Politics begins as soon as any organization includes more than 2 people.

Jesus talked about his kingdom. A kingdom is a hierarchical organization. The revolution of the Founding Fathers was to displace worldwide, the absolute rule of a monarch with a less efficient but also less tyrannical republic, rule by law. Laws made by republics are notoriously inefficient. Hence the expression, "it takes AN ACT OF CONGRESS." It means to do what is obvious and should be done immediately still requires overcoming a huge divergence of priorities among groups with different interests and agendas.

Therefore, no matter the human collective, organization is necessary to channel energy. Calling this organization "politics," does not remove its necessity.

 

[Wrangler]

"Election" in this passage has nothing to do with voting.

Yet, it has everything to do with selecting. It matters not if the selection is done by a god, a king, or an electorate.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

According to Romans 13:1, God appoints all leaders and people in authority in the world; and since Jesus is Lord and has all authority, whoever becomes president, a leader in government _ otherwiseis _ on all levels, basically His decision.
It is an historical fact in the Bible, God appointed good kings and bad kings for a purpose. The Israelites were blessed for a time, worshipped God and had a good king. When they became sinful, they had a bad one or were more severely punished, warred against by other empires, defeated and enslaved for a time. Then God would restore them.
America has declined into a cesspool of immorality - partly. Christians are appointed ( and others) to keep order, restrain evil. God ordains governments. The basic purpose of a givernmmet is to protect the people, oir rights and property. We have digressed and so judgment is coming. Whoever God appoints will be for a purpose to fit into this whole scenario of a fallen world. It will conform to His perfect plan. Jesus is coming soon! He is our only hope, but we live also in the world He balances and restrains evil on through us and our leaders.
God is sovereign, so no worries.
If Kamala becomes president, we certainly are being punished and will suffer for it. If Trump wins, he'll carry us through the Great Tribulation - either way, it's coming soon.
We are close to the precipice, where good and evil will be separated. This division in this country and everywhere is evident. Btw, Kamala just had a rally and two Christians in the crowd shouted, " Jesus is Lord" and "Christ is King"! Kamala responded by mocking them and saying, "You are at the wrong rally, you need to go down the street to the smaller one". She was referring to a Catholic dinner, that she was invited to and snubbed. Every candidate for President in history attended that dinner except Walter Mondale. Trump attended it to show respect, even though he is not Catholic.
Only those who truly utter the words, "Jesus is Lord", are born of God! So Kamala is an antichrist. Many politicians pose as Christians, play that card, but inside they are not. By their fruit, you will know them.
Since sin has been in the world, we had to take sides, do the right thing and gather other like-minded folks to live in orderly, peaceful and prosperous civilizations.
Our country was founded by Christians. You could not hold public office unless they were a Christian. And still, as we follow Christ, He leads and we cooperate.
I think Trump as holding that torch of freedom from tryanny; marching on as our forefathers did towards a hopeful, prosperous and peaceful country. I see Trump as a Christian ( though not a knowledgeable one for sure). Soldiers fight in wars to protect our freedoms as should all those who are servants of this government. I do not believe Kamala is a Christian, she's a liar, a person of poor character, not a leader, a destroyer.
So until Christ returns, we will March forward _ on this corrupt world _ with the gospel in hand ... and unfortunately we must take sides. The other side is living in an alternate reality, progressively moving towards a Eutopian idea, a New World Order, drafted by men like Klause Shwab. Socialism won't work with sin in the world. Jesus must remove sin, than we. An truly experience world peace and harmony.

 

[Wrangler]

I see Trump as a Christian ( though not a knowledgeable one for sure).

Trump is God’s agent of justice. God uses even non-Christians to achieve his will. Trump has a strong Pro-Christian record and a Pro-Christian agenda.

The divide between the 2 could not be more obvious.

But that is secondary to many Christian’s who have adopted a principle to make the themselves irrelevant, to not participate in the blessing from God to have civic responsibility AS IF we could somehow be better off ruled by demonic influenced Anti-Christs.

 

[doctrox]

According to Romans 13:1, God appoints all leaders and people in authority in the world; and since Jesus is Lord and has all authority, whoever becomes president, a leader in government _ otherwiseis _ on all levels, basically His decision.

This is the falsehood that's got everyone in terrible bondage. Rather, there is no Lawful authority anywhere else outside of God's. Of course, Satan would set up his counterfeit, which the majority have in error submitted to today.

It is an historical fact in the Bible, God appointed good kings and bad kings for a purpose.

Incorrect. The people chose "bad kings" and God allows them the exercise of their free will to do so, to their detriment.

For example,

So Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking for an earthly king from him. 11 He said, “These will be the ways of the king who will reign over you: he will take your sons and appoint them to his chariots and to be his horsemen and to run before his chariots. 12 And he will appoint for himself commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and some to plow his ground and to reap his harvest, and to make his implements of war and the equipment of his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive orchards and give them to his servants. 15 He will take the tenth of your grain and of your vineyards and give it to his officers and to his servants. 16 He will take your male servants and female servants and the best of your young men and your donkeys, and put them to his work. 17 He will take the tenth of your flocks, and you shall be his slaves. 18 And in that day you will cry out because of your king, whom you have chosen for yourselves, but the Lord will not answer you in that day.” (1 Sam. chap. 8)

The Israelites were blessed for a time, worshipped God and had a good king. When they became sinful, they had a bad one or were more severely punished, warred against by other empires, defeated and enslaved for a time. Then God would restore them.

Sinful people choose sinful kings and suffer the consequences. Simple.

America has declined into a cesspool of immorality - partly. Christians are appointed ( and others) to keep order, restrain evil.

No, Christians are not to keep order over a brothel, nor settle for a Bible study in its basement. Rather, Christians are to kick the evil out of the brothel and establish God's Lawful authority while setting their own city in a hill.

God ordains governments. The basic purpose of a givernmmet is to protect the people, oir rights and property.

No, that is the gross misread of Romans 13 that has us in a hurt locker. As that chapter states, Lawful government's purpose is to reward good and punish evil. Period. If it exceeds or fails that, it is not Lawful righteous government. (verses 3 & 4)

We have digressed and so judgment is coming.

Worse, we have chosen to give obeisance to the pretender, the ungodly "authority." That is why "judgement is coming."

Whoever God appoints will be for a purpose to fit into this whole scenario of a fallen world.

In reply to the blind opinion that all kings, princes, and governments are set up and "ordained" by God, we will quote the following passage, which is spoken into the ears of Hosea by God Almighty himself. We pray that those who have eyes to see and ears to hear will no longer engage in such opinions:

Hosea 8:4, "They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not."

Also,

Psalms 2:1-3, "Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."

There's no Godly ordination there.

If Kamala becomes president...

She will (but such does not concern the true followers of Jesus Christ).

If Trump wins...

He won't (but such does not concern the true followers of Jesus Christ). Very shortly, we will be told that he has been killed. Everyone is being heavily propagandized now (re: assassination threat psyops), as a mass mind control tool, to make the population more accepting of such a planned future event.

Our country was founded by Christians. You could not hold public office unless they were a Christian.

Quite the opposite! For those who have actually read the US Constitution:

The key to the rejection of the rule of God was Article VI, Clause 3, "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several state Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

Most are unaware the "Constitution" forbids God. The Constitution was a rebellion against Christ and his authority over the nation, replacing it with the rule of man.

In Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488 (1961), the United States Supreme Court holds that the state of Maryland can not require applicants for public office to swear that they believed in the existence of God. The court unanimously rules that a religious test violates the Establishment Clause. This verifies that the U.S. Constitution allows Atheists to rule and make laws for bondservants of Christ!

“We the people...” = the religion of humanism. This is why corporate citizens have Satanists ruling over them today -- and they signed on to their program voluntarily!

 

[Triumph1300]

..........Yeah.....politics......, did you see what Kamela said at a rally where someone yelled out “Jesus is Lord’. And then Kamala said “you’re at the wrong Rally”. And all the lefties in the room laughed and cheered. These things get brushed off like a joke but it’s very telling of her anti-Christian nature......


.......Kamela Harris, spoke in a Baptist Church in Georgia and told the crowd “to shine the light”. Hypocritical abortion promoting politicians make me sick.........

 

[PGS11]

When an unclean spirit comes out of a man, it roams through water-less places looking for rest but doesn’t find any. Then it says, “I’ll go back to my house that I came from.” And returning, it finds the house vacant, swept, and put in order. Then off it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and settle down there. As a result, that man’s last condition is worse than the first. That’s how it will also be with this evil generation. (Matthew 12:43–45)

This is a warning to entire generations not individuals.

For us, so many years in the future, it’s natural to read what Jesus said here in isolation — as though what he was doing was issuing a warning about how exorcism works for individuals.
But what Jesus says here, while it might have held true in some individual cases, is not about individuals. Although he began his illustration with “when an unclean spirit comes out of a man,” it was an illustration. He wasn’t talking about a man but about a generation. To hear his warning properly, we need to recall that context.
The Pharisees, the Zealots, and the rest did not at all expect to end up in a state of being oppressed and overrun. Exactly the opposite. Because they believed God was on the side of their political vision, they expected to end up free and in power. They fully expected God to show up for them with miracles and might to rival the days of the exodus or of David killing Goliath. They fully expected him to bless their plots and their plans.
They thought they were going to overthrow Rome.
They thought they were going to fight their way to freedom and power.
They thought God was going to bless anything they did in his name, because they thought they were entitled to his favor through their birthright as Israelite s and through their zeal for the law.

Jesus was non political and did not come to solve those problems and never intended to be involved. He was here to do the Fathers will.

So it’s also worth asking whether our expectations today are truly aligned with God’s. Do we, like the Pharisees, think God is coming to bless our political programs and our freedom fights? Do we assume he will bless and rubber-stamp anything we do in his name simply because we’re doing it in his name?

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

How we vote is a reflection of our beliefs/values/morals. Yes Jesus is King and He reigns forever. Yet this world is not HEAVEN nor God's home or even our home. We are to run the race and endure til the end. We are not to sit and watch what happens all around us. Jesus actually gave us a written word on what He wants from us. we can't change the system/order of the world around us if we don't vote and get involved, educate and engage.

 

[Berean]

How we vote is a reflection of our beliefs/values/morals. Yes Jesus is King and He reigns forever. Yet this world is not HEAVEN nor God's home or even our home. We are to run the race and endure til the end. We are not to sit and watch what happens all around us. Jesus actually gave us a written word on what He wants from us. we can't change the system/order of the world around us if we don't vote and get involved, educate and engage.

And what exactly did Jesus tell us in His written Word, did he tell us to go vote or did he tell us to preach the word?

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

And what exactly did Jesus tell us in His written Word, did he tell us to go vote or did he tell us to preach the word?

Jesus never told us to drive cars, fly in planes, use central air or stoves or use computers... The overall message is to use your "voice" stand up against evil and do good.

What I do know is that those that have ears let them hear, those that have eyes let them see for they will be blessed.

 

[doctrox]

How we vote is a reflection of our beliefs/values/morals.

Rather, voting "is a reflection of our" turning away from God's way (life) and choosing man's way (death) instead. (Pro. 14:12)

Yes Jesus is King and He reigns forever. Yet this world is not HEAVEN nor God's home or even our home.

Rather, while we are certainly in this world, we are NOT to be of this world. (John 15:19; 17:16)

We are to run the race and endure til the end. We are not to sit and watch what happens all around us. Jesus actually gave us a written word on what He wants from us.

To be precise, ...let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith... (Heb. 12:1-2)

we can't change the system/order of the world around us if we don't vote and get involved, educate and engage.

We are NOT to "change the system/order of the world around us" precisely because we are not of the world.

To "vote and get involved, educate and engage" is the world's way - not Christ's.

Jesus never told us to drive cars, fly in planes, use central air or stoves or use computers...

"Things" are not sin; it's what people may do with those things that can cause those people to sin.

The overall message is to use your "voice" stand up against evil and do good.

Yes, but as per what Jesus has told us to do, and not what the world would have us to do.

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

Rather, voting "is a reflection of our" turning away from God's way (life) and choosing man's way (death) instead. (Pro. 14:12)


Rather, while we are certainly in this world, we are NOT to be of this world. (John 15:19; 17:16)


To be precise, ...let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith... (Heb. 12:1-2)


We are NOT to "change the system/order of the world around us" precisely because we are not of the world.

To "vote and get involved, educate and engage" is the world's way - not Christ's.


"Things" are not sin; it's what people may do with those things that can cause those people to sin.


Yes, but as per what Jesus has told us to do, and not what the world would have us to do.

well we will see one day who understood the assignment.

But just to be clear, are you saying God was wrong because He put man in positions of kings and priests. So God caused David, Solomon, Ester, Rehab and such to sin because they were involved with politics??

 

[Berean]

Jesus never told us to drive cars, fly in planes, use central air or stoves or use computers... The overall message is to use your "voice" stand up against evil and do good.

There's a lot that Jesus never spoke about or against, that doesn't mean it's okay to do them?
Things Jesus never mentioned:

• Homosexuality
• going to church
• Read the Bible
• America / Democracy

I mean we can go on and on.

As to Mark 4:9 that you quoted, perhaps you could explain the parable to me and what it has to do with voting and being involved in the affairs of this world?

I'll wait, but won't hold my breath.

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

There's a lot that Jesus never spoke about or against, that doesn't mean it's okay to do them?
Things Jesus never mentioned:

• Homosexuality
• going to church
• Read the Bible
• America / Democracy

I mean we can go on and on.

As to Mark 4:9 that you quoted, perhaps you could explain the parable to me and what it has to do with voting and being involved in the affairs of this world?

I'll wait, but won't hold my breath.

what???

First i never said it was okay to do anything. that is part of our problem. you are added to what I said.
but more importantly:
Jesus did talk about sexual sin (all sin outside of a man and woman in marriage) , He spoke per Matt 28:19-20 to go to all the end (American included), we are the church and need to worship in Spirit and truth, and Matt 22:29 - You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.

All scriptures and the life of Jesus all testify that God wants us to be obedient to Him. Mark 4:9 is not the only place that this is mentioned. IF you had the Spirit then you would understand...

this is my last reply to you because I find you a fool to think Jesus did not talk about homosexuality as the entire Word of God is Jesus!

 

[Berean]

what???

First i never said it was okay to do anything. that is part of our problem. you are added to what I said.
Actually you said :

Jesus never told us to drive cars, fly in planes, use central air or stoves or use computers...

And yet we drive cars and fly planes and use central air and computers.