Christianity is NOT Derived From Judaism

[Wrangler]

Not an ad hominem ....You said you don’t care if you’re an open heretic

That's true. I don't care about any of your personal attacks. They simply carry no weight.

You boomers are thinning out, thank God for lifespans

Do you worship God with that mouth?

 

[Wrangler]

You can’t separate geopolitics from religion, it’s all intertwined.

Now that would make for an excellent thread!

From your writings I surmise that you are young. In living through 9/11 as an adult, I was amazed at how the media and many in government continued to claim that Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with religion. It was a real eye opener for me.

During the Clinton Administration there was an attack on the World Trade Towers. At that time, the West treated Islamic terrorism as actions of a common criminal. After 9/11 the policy changed to treating them as a military threat.

Please start a thread on this topic. It'll be interesting to see how others view this topic. In the mean time, I agree with @Lambano, this thread has jumped the shark.

 

[Rhetro]

That's true. I don't care about any of your personal attacks. They simply carry no weight.


Do you worship God with that mouth?

Your feminine tone policing and fake piety signaling don’t hold any water.

You don’t even know which God Moses was talking to through the burning bush.

You do know the Bible is full of insults too right? Jesus flipped over tables, brought a whip to drive out the money changers.

 

[Lambano]

You can’t separate geopolitics from religion, it’s all intertwined.

So that's what's this is about? Modern geopolitics?

The subject at hand is the historical development of Christianity.

 

[Rhetro]

So that's what's this is about? Modern geopolitics?

The subject at hand is the historical development of Christianity.

Wrangler said he stands with Israel on political and religious grounds before geopolitics were even mentioned.

He’s here to push his Zionist puppet script that MAGA bows down to.

 

[Wick Stick]

To claim that God's holy Law is an un-salvific, punitive torture program designed for pure retaliation is the literal core blueprint of Marcionism, no matter how much you try to run from the label

You're trying to demonize me by associating me with a known heretic. Why? What do you get out of that?

I haven't claimed anything very strange in this regard.

Moses himself tells us that God had him lead a generation of Israelites out into the Wilderness until they all died, save 2 faithful men. That's punitive. It's not torture, but it is punitive. Nor have I accused God of injustice here. The punishment was just.

Most of Deuteronomy is set up as blessings and curses. The core of Moses' covenant is performance, and consequences. The blessings were set before them, contingent on their behavior. They mostly did not obtain the blessings. The curses were also set before them, again contingent on their behavior. Those curses fell on them early and often, and Moses predicted that would be the case.

So yes, Moses mediated a covenant whose purpose was largely to punish Israel when they were wicked... and that's justice served.

 

[Rhetro]

Now that would make for an excellent thread!

From your writings I surmise that you are young. In living through 9/11 as an adult, I was amazed at how the media and many in government continued to claim that Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with religion. It was a real eye opener for me.

During the Clinton Administration there was an attack on the World Trade Towers. At that time, the West treated Islamic terrorism as actions of a common criminal. After 9/11 the policy changed to treating them as a military threat.

Please start a thread on this topic. It'll be interesting to see how others view this topic. In the mean time, I agree with @Lambano, this thread has jumped the shark.

Have you ever cared to ask why Islam did what it did? Perhaps meddling in the Middle East at Israel’s behest has something to do with it?

Here’s Netanyahu lying before Congress about Iraq having WMDs and saying we are screwed if we don’t do something

 

[Rhetro]

You're trying to demonize me by associating me with a known heretic. Why? What do you get out of that?

I haven't claimed anything very strange in this regard.

Moses himself tells us that God had him lead a generation of Israelites out into the Wilderness until they all died, save 2 faithful men. That's punitive. It's not torture, but it is punitive. Nor have I accused God of injustice here. The punishment was just.

Most of Deuteronomy is set up as blessings and curses. The core of Moses' covenant is performance, and consequences. The blessings were set before them, contingent on their behavior. They mostly did not obtain the blessings. The curses were also set before them, again contingent on their behavior. Those curses fell on them early and often, and Moses predicted that would be the case.

So yes, Moses mediated a covenant whose purpose was largely to punish Israel when they were wicked... and that's justice served.

You already openly admitted to being a heretic with your Annihilationism when I told you it was a condemned heresy by the Church at the 5th ecumenical council.

You said the Mormons and JW can be saved. So yeah, you’re a heretic. You also believe there’s a neutral path outside of Christ, that also makes you a heretic.

You’re not Christian, like all heretics, you label yourself as one.

You also embraced Pelagianism and said St. Augustine, an early Church Father was an idiot. But somehow you’re not an idiot. A heretic like you, thinks he can teach us what Christianity is at the expense of the early Church Fathers.

You guys are clowns, a laughing stock making up as you go. No history, no authority.

 

[Lambano]

Wrangler said he stands with Israel on political and religious grounds before geopolitics were even mentioned.

He’s here to push his Zionist puppet script that MAGA bows down to.

You can start a new thread about Zionist conspiracies and the foolishness of the U.S. right wing and the moral. intellectual, and spiritual deficiencies of our current Commander-in-Chief. Those have nothing to do with the historical development of Christianity.

 

[Wick Stick]

What would give you the authority to interpret Scripture however you want just like Mormons and JW?

What a spectacularly loaded question. Your rhetoric is truly astounding. You've spent most of this topic trying just about every dirty tactic possible in an argument, and not much of it actually engaging with what the other people are saying.

What would stop me from removing all books from the Bible except for the 4 gospels?

I'm sort of hoping you have a father that could put you over his knee, and straighten you out.

 

[Rhetro]

You can start a new thread about Zionist conspiracies. This discussion is about the historical development of Christianity.

I know you’re a wall kisser as well, but Wrangler explicitly said he stands with Israel on political and religious grounds before geopolitics even came up. If you were actually consistent, you would have told Wrangler this thread is not about standing with the Jews on political and religious grounds. You’re a clown

I unequivocally stand with Israel and the Jewish people on political, racial AND religious grounds

Both of you got caught red-handed for pushing Zionist propaganda.

 

[Rhetro]

What a spectacularly loaded question. Your rhetoric is truly astounding. You've spent most of this topic trying just about every dirty tactic possible in an argument, and not much of it actually engaging with what the other people are saying.

I'm sort of hoping you have a father that could put you over his knee, and straighten you out.

Your feminine tone policing and fake piety signaling don’t work on me, you’re not fooling anybody with that pearl clutching. And thank you for proving my point. You don’t have an answer because you are an open heretic who makes it up as they go with zero authority when I asked you what gives you the authority to interpret Scripture however you want.

You embraced annihliationism, pelagianism, flirted with marcionism, called St. Augustine an idiot and said Mormons and JW can be saved.

But no, you know better than the early Church Fathers. They’re idiots, you’re not an idiot. Peak heretic at work. Why do we need to listen to a heretic like you over the early Church Fathers who had apostolic succession as valid authority? Because it’s just you, the Bible, and your basement?

accept. Pelagianism is CORRECT. Augustine was an idiot.

here. I genuinely believe in annihilation. I can show you where it exists in Jewish thought before the NT, if you care, which I doubt.

The situation is similar to the Mormons or JW's. The leadership is bad; there are doctrines added on top of the truth that subvert it. Nonetheless, they have the Scriptures and there is real truth

 

[Wick Stick]

You already openly admitted to being a heretic with your Annihilationism when I told you it was a condemned heresy by the Church at the 5th ecumenical council.

I do believe in Annihilation. The council you're referencing didn't say anything about it:

You said the Mormons and JW can be saved.

Yes, if they believe, same as anyone else. They have the Bible. They've heard the gospel.

My actual point was that it is HARD for them to be saved because of the corrupt doctrines their churches have piled on top of the Scriptures, but I see you have twisted my words to make it seem like I said something else.

You also believe there’s a neutral path outside of Christ, that also makes you a heretic.

I said there's a path that leads to destruction. So does Matthew:

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in there

More twisting of words.

You also embraced Pelagianism and said St. Augustine, an early Church Father was an idiot.

Yes, I did. Augustine was a terrible corrupting influence. Many of the doctrinal contentions we have today start with him.

But somehow you’re not an idiot. A heretic like you, thinks he can teach us what Christianity is at the expense of the early Church Fathers.

You guys are clowns, a laughing stock making up as you go. No history, no authority.

I feel like I've said this bit before... I'm not here to teach. I'm here to have conversations with other people who value the Bible, as I do.

You don't seem to be here for the same reason. You seem to be here for the purpose of fighting, and belittling others.

 

[David in NJ]

You're trying to demonize me by associating me with a known heretic. Why? What do you get out of that?

I haven't claimed anything very strange in this regard.

Moses himself tells us that God had him lead a generation of Israelites out into the Wilderness until they all died, save 2 faithful men. That's punitive. It's not torture, but it is punitive. Nor have I accused God of injustice here. The punishment was just.

Most of Deuteronomy is set up as blessings and curses. The core of Moses' covenant is performance, and consequences. The blessings were set before them, contingent on their behavior. They mostly did not obtain the blessings. The curses were also set before them, again contingent on their behavior. Those curses fell on them early and often, and Moses predicted that would be the case.

So yes, Moses mediated a covenant whose purpose was largely to punish Israel when they were wicked... and that's justice served.

This is true but only 1/3 of the STORY/TESTIMONY/TRUTH

Do you know what the 2/3 of the STORY/TESTIMONY/TRUTH is???

 

[Rhetro]

accept. Pelagianism is CORRECT. Augustine was an idiot.

I do believe in Annihilation. The council you're referencing didn't say anything about it:
View attachment 92314

Yes, if they believe, same as anyone else. They have the Bible. They've heard the gospel.

My actual point was that it is HARD for them to be saved because of the corrupt doctrines their churches have piled on top of the Scriptures, but I see you have twisted my words to make it seem like I said something else.

I said there's a path that leads to destruction. So does Matthew:

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in there

More twisting of words.

Yes, I did. Augustine was a terrible corrupting influence. Many of the doctrinal contentions we have today start with him.

I feel like I've said this bit before... I'm not here to teach. I'm here to have conversations with other people who value the Bible, as I do.

You don't seem to be here for the same reason. You seem to be here for the purpose of fighting, and belittling others.

The Fifth Ecumenical Council condemned the Origenist crisis, and its 11th Canon dogmatically names Origen as a condemned heretic alongside Arius. The 10th and 11th Anathema strikes down your exact fan-fiction…condemning those who teach an end that results in the 'annihilation of bodies' and distinct existence.

Anathema 10:
'If anyone shall say that after the resurrection... the nature of their bodies shall be annihilated: let him be anathema.'
Anathema 11: 'If anyone shall say that the future judgment signifies the destruction of the body... let him be anathema

Council of Carthage (418 AD): Condemned Pelagian teachings and affirmed the necessity of divine grace for salvation.
Council of Ephesus (431 AD): An ecumenical council that ratified the earlier condemnations of Pelagianism.

You don't seem to be here for the same reason. You seem to be here for the purpose of fighting, and belittling others.

Your tone policing and fake piety signaling don’t work. Christ also belittled heretics. The early Church fought tooth and nail to stamp out heretics like you.

Yes, I did. Augustine was a terrible corrupting influence. Many of the doctrinal contentions we have today start with him.

You’re the corrupting influence. Augustine had apostolic succession. You’re just a heretic with a Bible in his basement

Do you know who put the Bible together? The early Church Fathers, who among them was Augustine.

 

[amigo de christo]

"According to theologian James D. G. Dunn, four types of early Christianity can be discerned: Jewish Christianity, Hellenistic Christianity, Apocalyptic Christianity, and early Catholicism." - Dunn, James D. G. (2005) [1977]. Unity and diversity in the New Testament: An inquiry into the character of earliest Christianity (3rd ed.)

Which Christian roots should we get back to?

BIBLE TIME . them words were inspired By The one true GOD .
IF any is looking to return to the t rue christain root
OPEN BIBLE . you will need no scholars , no other books . Simply pray and simply read .
IF not prepare for much wailing on JESUS day . The time to return is NOW .

 

[amigo de christo]

This is true but only 1/3 of the STORY/TESTIMONY/TRUTH

Do you know what the 2/3 of the STORY/TESTIMONY/TRUTH is???

Time for a friendly reminder for us all .
You do realize that most folks were not and are not BIBLE only readers .
In fact most folks and what wee tiny things they even Think they know about the scripture .
WERE scripture twisted to fit the teachings of men .
Things just aint been looking good at all f or a long time now .
SO what rhymes with third , WORD .
And its high time folks got back to reading That bible for , and oh yes , for their own selves .
One third , two thirds , david most folks dont even know the scriptures
and they know not what they follow . that is a fact . And it not judgmental and hateful to say so .
IT is a solid fact . You can ask all the quest ions you like
But most are gonna answer you , with precepts and doctrines of men . And when i say men
I mean men gone wrong . Thus these last twenty to closing in around twenty five plus years
MOST have been so programmed by the love of a harlot
and now led to her peace
THEY HAVE NO IDEA its NOT OF GOD , ITS NOT of Christ , but of anti christ . and again that is a fact .

 

[Rhetro]

Time for a friendly reminder for us all .
You do realize that most folks were not and are not BIBLE only readers .
In fact most folks and what wee tiny things they even Think they know about the scripture .
WERE scripture twisted to fit the teachings of men .
Things just aint been looking good at all f or a long time now .
SO what rhymes with third , WORD .
And its high time folks got back to reading That bible for , and oh yes , for their own selves .
One third , two thirds , david most folks dont even know the scriptures
and they know not what they follow . that is a fact . And it not judgmental and hateful to say so .
IT is a solid fact . You can ask all the quest ions you like
But most are gonna answer you , with precepts and doctrines of men . And when i say men
I mean men gone wrong . Thus these last twenty to closing in around twenty five plus years
MOST have been so programmed by the love of a harlot
and now led to her peace
THEY HAVE NO IDEA its NOT OF GOD , ITS NOT of Christ , but of anti christ . and again that is a fact .

You cannot divorce the Bible from the Church that put it together. The Bible came out of the Church, for the Church. No one outside the Church can understand it correctly for themselves.

You are the “men gone wrong”, you are the one twisting scripture. Why should we follow your heretical interpretation over the Church?

 

[amigo de christo]

Your feminine tone policing and fake piety signaling don’t hold any water.

You don’t even know which God Moses was talking to through the burning bush.

You do know the Bible is full of insults too right? Jesus flipped over tables, brought a whip to drive out the money changers.

and what did peter say unto a man who had beleived and even been baptized
when the man simply OFFERED THEM MONEY .
DID HE TAKE IT.
DID he say oh , i aint here to judge , god is love ,
OR
OR DID he say to simeon , YOUR MONEY PERISH WITH YOU , you thought the gift of GOD could be purchased with money .
YOUR HEART IS NOT RIGHT . of course it scared the dickens outta that man and he went right into
QUICK repentance mode . THEY didnt go around hollering judge not God is love .
And what did paul do to a man who was simply trying to lead the deputy AWAY FROM the faith .
I can assure us all he did not say , OH ITS OKAY dude we all serving the same God anyway .
WHAT DID HE SAY and what DID HE DO .
HE unleashed very grave words , that identied that man as an angent of satan and blinded him quick .
But today paul would have been called a hater who knows not GOD or love .
WE GOTS PROBLEMS bud .
People do not know the scriptures at all . And what little they think they know IS twisted to fit
the precepts of men as though it be DOCTRINE of GOD .
SO when i said and have been saying to all , GET THINE NOSES IN THOSE BIBLES , OH ITS HIGH TIME this people heeds that .

 

[Rhetro]

BIBLE TIME . them words were inspired By The one true GOD .
IF any is looking to return to the t rue christain root
OPEN BIBLE . you will need no scholars , no other books . Simply pray and simply read .
IF not prepare for much wailing on JESUS day . The time to return is NOW .

You don’t even know where the Bible came from.

1 Timothy 3:15: "but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."