These words you will not like and yet you are seeking them out. "Why can I not", "Why am I still". A person that murders in his heart(loves not his brother) is walking in the darkness still. You and your friend(the consistent one) both do this. The key to coming out of this is to enter The Lords rest. Our works are like filthy rags before The Lord. We must cease from our labors and rest in Him. When we cease from our labors, it is then that The Lord begins His work in us. And in due season He will work through us. When one walks in The Spirit, It is He who leading and us who is following as One. It is He who enables us to keep His commandments and that is why it has been said that they are not burdensome. The things you desire to do, and especially not due, are impossible, and yet all things are possible with (God) Him. When Jesus was here, He said, "My Father is always working". And so this is also true for those that are truly born from above. Jesus said, "And greater things than these will you do". You see, He knew after finishing His Fathers work(for all of us) that He would send The comforter, The Holy Spirit, to those that truly believed. What begins as the smallest of seeds eventually becomes a fruitful tree. And in that tree there is no darkness at all. The Lord saw the darkness that entered man in the garden, and He had mercy on all of us, His creation, and so He sent His Son(Jesus), His only begotten Son, to provide a way, when there was no way. Our journeys that we walk, He has already walked for us. And He was victorious. Let us enter His rest(by faith) and He will work in and through us in due season. I write these things to be considered, I do not come to message boards to argue doctrine, I simply bring what my Father gives me to bring.(at that moment) And so you may know, in the beginning of my journey, no one fought harder against The Lord as much as me. But the more I fought, the more He showed me His Love. Eventually I gave up and handed Him everything. And now I will spend the rest of my days freely giving what He gave, and gives though me. One does not appreciate The Light of The Lord as much as one who has walked in darkness(suffering) only to bet set free of it all. And so, when The Son sets us free, we are free indeed!
Church Bashing
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These words you will not like and yet you are seeking them out. "Why can I not", "Why am I still". A person that murders in his heart(loves not his brother) is walking in the darkness still. You and your friend(the consistent one) both do this. The key to coming out of this is to enter The Lords rest. Our works are like filthy rags before The Lord. We must cease from our labors and rest in Him. When we cease from our labors, it is then that The Lord begins His work in us. And in due season He will work through us. When one walks in The Spirit, It is He who leading and us who is following as One. It is He who enables us to keep His commandments and that is why it has been said that they are not burdensome. The things you desire to do, and especially not due, are impossible, and yet all things are possible with (God) Him. When Jesus was here, He said, "My Father is always working". And so this is also true for those that are truly born from above. Jesus said, "And greater things than these will you do". You see, He knew after finishing His Fathers work(for all of us) that He would send The comforter, The Holy Spirit, to those that truly believed. What begins as the smallest of seeds eventually becomes a fruitful tree. And in that tree there is no darkness at all. The Lord saw the darkness that entered man in the garden, and He had mercy on all of us, His creation, and so He sent His Son(Jesus), His only begotten Son, to provide a way, when there was no way. Our journeys that we walk, He has already walked for us. And He was victorious. Let us enter His rest(by faith) and He will work in and through us in due season. I write these things to be considered, I do not come to message boards to argue doctrine, I simply bring what my Father gives me to bring.(at that moment) And so you may know, in the beginning of my journey, no one fought harder against The Lord as much as me. But the more I fought, the more He showed me His Love. Eventually I gave up and handed Him everything. And now I will spend the rest of my days freely giving what He gave, and gives though me. One does not appreciate The Light of The Lord as much as one who has walked in darkness(suffering) only to bet set free of it all. And so, when The Son sets us free, we are free indeed!
It’s only your first sentence or two I disagree with. I really like everything else you’ve said.
I do not think a man who receives a down payment of the Holy Spirit who then struggles with sin on the inside of his cup is still walking in darkness. I think he has begun on the godly path and is learning about the righteousness that will come to him through trust.
I do not think a man who receives a down payment of the Holy Spirit who then struggles with sin on the inside of his cup is still walking in darkness. I think he has begun on the godly path and is learning about the righteousness that will come to him through trust.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
The Sweet Lady was reminding me that I'm married to her, not my laptop computer.
Tell her you’re learning to love her as Christ does!
Just kidding. Don’t tell her that.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
19. By which. Or, “with respect to which,” “by virtue of which.” Opinion differs as to
whether “by which” refers to “the Spirit” (v. 18) or to the thought of v. 18 as a whole.
Some of those who accept the reading “in spirit in v. 18 (see comment there) hold that
the words “by which” refer back to “spirit,” and interpret v. 19 to mean that between His
crucifixion and resurrection Christ “preached” to the supposed disembodied spirits of the
antediluvians. However, this conclusion does not necessarily follow the adoption of the
reading “in spirit.” Furthermore, the conclusion is entirely unscriptural and must
therefore be rejected (see below under “spirits”).
The following three explanations of this difficult passage are all in harmony with the
general teaching of Scripture on the condition of man in death.
1. “By which” refers back to “the Spirit,” and v. 19 means that Christ preached to the
antediluvians by the Holy Spirit through the ministry of Noah.
2. “By which” refers back to the preferred reading, “spirit,” which is a reference to Christ
in His pre-existent state, a state that, like His post-resurrection, glorified nature may be
described as in “spirit.” Compare the expression, “God is spirit,” RSV (see on John 4:24).
Christ’s preaching was to the antediluvians, “while the ark was a preparing,” and hence
during His pre-existent state. Compare on Heb. 9:14.
3. “By which” refers back to v. 18 as a whole, and v. 19 means that by virtue of His yet
future vicarious death and resurrection, in “spirit,” Christ “went and preached” to the
antediluvians through the ministry of Noah. It was by virtue of the fact that Christ was to
be “put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit” (v. 8) that He formerly
preached salvation through Noah and “saved by water” those who accepted it. Similarly,
it is “by the resurrection of Jesus Christ” that “baptism doth also now save us” (v. 21).
The first of these three explanations is possible if the reading “the Spirit” is accepted
(see on v. 18). The second and third accord more closely with the Greek construction (of
vs. 18, 19), with the immediate context, and with parallel passages elsewhere in the NT.
Also. That is, in addition to “us” (v. 18). The provision made at Calvary to “bring us
to God” was “also” available to the antediluvians. In fact, no other provision has ever
been made for men to escape from the devil’s prison house (see on Acts 4:12).
Went and preached. Emphasis is on the preaching, not on the going. The word
translated “preached” (kērussō) is the usual word for Christ’s preaching while on earth.
For the time when this preaching took place see on v. 20.
Spirits. Gr. pneumata, plural of pneuma “wind,” “breath,” “spirit” (see on Luke 8:55;
cf. on Num. 5:14). Breath is one of the conspicuous characteristics of living beings, and
by a figure of speech (synecdoche), in which a characteristic part of a thing stands for the
whole, pneuma means simply “person.” Compare 1 Cor 16:18, where “my spirit” means
“me,” and Gal. 6:18; 2 Tim. 4:22; etc., where “your spirit”means “you” (cf. Phil. 4:23).
See on Heb. 12:9, 23; cf. Num. 16:22; 27:16. Accordingly, these “spirits” can be
considered living human beings. In fact, the first part of v. 20 apparently identifies them
as people living on the earth immediately prior to the Flood. They were as certainly real,
living human beings as were the the “eight souls” of v. 20.
Some hold that ch. 3:18–20 and ch. 4:6 support the doctrine of an immortal soul and
of consciousness after death, and that during the interval between the crucifixion and the
resurrection Christ descended into Hades, the figurative realm of the dead (see on Matt.
11:23), to preach to disembodied spirits languishing there. But the logic of this view
demands that the “spirits” here referred to be in some sort of purgatory at the time Christ
preached to them and that the purpose of His preaching was to give them a second chance
to be saved and thus to escape from purgatory. But most Protestants who believe that
Peter here teaches the consciousness of man in death would be horrified to accept the
papal doctrine of purgatory and the equally unscriptural doctrine of a second chance.
Those who maintain that Peter here supports their belief in the so-called natural
immortality of the soul must also explain why Christ would be partial to the “spirits” of
dead sinners of Noah’s time and not give to those of other generations a similar
opportunity.
The Scriptures plainly teach that a man must accept salvation in this present life, if at
all, and that his personal probation closes at death (see on Matt. 16:27; Luke 16:26–31;
Rom. 2:6; Heb. 9:27; cf. Eze. 18:24; Rev. 22:12). They also plainly teach that the dead
are not conscious (see on Ps. 146:4; Eccl. 9:5, 6; Matt. 10:28; John 11:11; 1 Thess. 4:13;
cf. on Gen. 2:7; Eccl. 12:7). Accordingly, to make these “spirits” out to be disembodied,
conscious beings able to hear and accept the gospel, contradicts numerous plain teachings
of Scripture. It should be noted that Peter does not say that Christ preached to
disembodied spirits.
To argue that the people of Noah’s day did not have a fair chance to be saved is to
ignore the fact that Noah was “a preacher of righteousness” to his generation (2 Peter
2:5), and that they deliberately rejected the message God sent to them through Noah (1
Peter 3:20, see comment there). “The longsuffering of God” would not have “waited in
the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing” (v. 20) unless those for whom God
waited so patiently were being given an opportunity to believe and to obey.
Prison. Gr. phulakē, “watch,” “guard,” and thus a place where men are watched and
guarded, a “prison.” Whether Peter here speaks literally or figuratively must be
determined by the context. If taken literally, this “prison” would be a place where
departed souls such as the “spirits” of v. 19 are said, by some, to be kept under guard
until their fate has been decided. If taken figuratively, “prison” would refer to the
spiritual state of the “disobedient” “spirits.” For the use of “prison” in the latter sense see
Isa. 4:27; cf. Isa. 61:1; Luke 4:18. How securely the antediluvians were held in the prison
house of sin is evident from Gen. 6:5–13 and from the fact that only eight persons
escaped from it (1 Peter 3:20). None but Christ can set men free from the evil habits and
desires with which Satan shackles them.
Um, thanks
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Aw yeah He does, soon as lifting our hands to Heaven with praises on our lips, Satan flees! our own spirits lift, things become clearer, it is awesome powerful.Psalm 22:3 KJV: But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
Can you believe God inhabits our praises? You can't make this stuff up!
@stunnedbygrace, I should have answered that picking up our crosses while we're here on this earth is part of growing up into our identities as Daughters and Sons of God. For us to keep growing, Father has given His children a continuous challenge. This is an art we pursue, not a goal we expect to accomplish.
—————————————————————
A cross is an instrument built for killing a man, Lambano. He doesn’t pick it up to grow up. He picks it up to go to his death.
—————————————————————
A cross is an instrument built for killing a man, Lambano. He doesn’t pick it up to grow up. He picks it up to go to his death.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
After I gave up trying to kill my flesh and started waiting for His promises, a verse I clung to really hard was: In his kindness God called you to share in his eternal glory by means of Christ Jesus. So after you have suffered a little while, he will restore, support, and strengthen you, and he will place you on a firm foundation.
And the more men said we will just always be stuck with our flesh and it will not die (but has already died
I must ask Stunned,
When you stopped trying to kill the flesh, what did you do? Just continue to murder until you just decided to stop? How did things change for you?
"In his kindness God called you to share in his eternal glory by means of Christ Jesus. So after you have suffered a little while, he will restore, support, and strengthen you, and he will place you on a firm foundation."
Perfect verse. "a little while" can mean a really long time to us, lol...but then, kind of think He will not move in us until we submit ALL to Him so, we actually stay His hand with our own ATTITUDES. (with mine, anyhow) Pat answer yet true "Let go and let God"!
Nancy
Well-Known Member
I see them as your personal opportunities to trust Him, and to do as He did..."Father forgive them..." open their spiritual eyes, bless them...
When I ask for opportunities to grow my faith, takes a bit to recognize certain trials AS opportunities! Fail in some and victorious is others. I'm not going to ask Him this for awhile
You heard Him! You overcame through Christ!
Lambano
Well-Known Member
I have testified that I had a complete spiritual breakdown in 2002-2003. When I broke, I broke. One of the reasons was a lack of power over a besetting sin. When I broke, I most certainly did not believe that I was loved by God. That's me, the bastard child.
Earlier in this thread, we had a visit from another member who believes all the theological system, but because he has no power over some besetting sin, he cannot cling to Jesus in faith. Did you see him?
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You really answered your own question here. Our mind has to be put in agreement with Him by trusting everything He’s said as being TRUE. Our flesh has to die (our own opinions, ego, right to defense of ourselves, argumentative ness with what He’s said, the thought that we are any better than anyone else in our heart, arrogance, pride in ourselves, to name a few.)
The world and other men do a lot to hinder us by what they assert is true (that’s been going on since the garden) and then our own disagreement hinders us, lack of trust.
Mind, will, emotions/passions. The cost is everything you are and have. A life for a life.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
There is a young man in the Prayer threads asking for prayer to keep him from falling once again into some grievous sin. I can relate. I promised to pray for him (and kept that promise). How does he access this power to overcome temptation? What shall I tell him?
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Truth. Old habits die hard...and the longer we lived in them, the longer (IMHO) it will take to break through. I understand the concept here and it is a goal to be reached for certain, emptying ourselves completely. When my "issue" comes up daily, yes have tossed a few fits and crying like a baby but, lately it has been easier to stop and AGAIN repent. The question comes to my mind now, each time I feel it all bubbling to the surface is: "What are you so angry at"?? Then it stops me dead in my tracks as, there is no answer to that question!
Love watching Him work, even when we are not being "good kids".
TANX!
Ah…no, I guess I missed a post in here. I didn’t see a member talking about that.
As for some outward sin one cannot stop, no religious person will agree with my counsel, but here it is.
Don’t focus on the outside of the cup. It’s not where the problem stems from. It’s what comes from inside of you that defiles you. For instance, fussing over if smoking cigarettes is or isn’t sin or if not going to a church on sundays is a sin is a bit strange when anger in my heart is murder. And surely stopping murdering is more important and where the focus should be.
Jesus said it’s quite possible for the outside of your cup to be clean while the inside is filthy. But if the inside is clean, the outside just will be as well. But there you go, no one can clean the inside, so you have to trust God for it.
So my counsel is to not focus on the outside of your cup and to understand that it is what is inside you proceeding to the outside that is the true problem. And there is no way to get at that except by trusting God for it.
Im sure someone will come in here screaming about what I’ve said and say that Jesus healed people and said now stop sinning. But whatever is not trusting Him is sin. So if someone tries to lead you back to the outside, don’t let them. It’s what is inside you that defiles you, whether it proceeds to the outside or stays hidden inside where no one else can see it.
It’s the child God plans and brings who receives the promise. The child of our own work and design does not receive the promise and must be sent away.
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
Sounds kinda lonely. Yet I still see something uniquely "Jen" there. I've grown rather fond of her (contentious woman though she may be), and I'd hate to lose her. I reckon that Jesus is rather fond of her too.
It’s not lonely. It’s just very weird and different! But I’m certainly not wishing that contentious woman to come back and harass and rule over me again. Good riddance. I do not miss her. I hated her. I still am amazed that I hated my own life and He helped me to kill her.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
You would have to know this other person. He's been transparent regarding his struggles in other threads, and he and I have been PMing. I found it curious that he appeared when he did. Coincidence? God knows.
You're not the only impatient child. Sometimes the Great Physician heals right away. Sometimes He tarries. What happens when the healing never comes?
Don't say that it doesn't happen. The witness of many faithful believers is that this is so.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Yet I still see something uniquely "you".
What are you saying, Lambano? That God withholds the medicine from a child who trusts Him?
10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.
You have not resisted in your struggle with sin to the shedding of blood.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Don't mix up your prescriptions.
In the one case, the child will die without the medicine. In the case we are talking about, the child must suffer "for a little while" until the Great Physician determines the time is right, and trust that He will ultimately deliver on His promises. I don't know why this is so, but the witness of the scriptures and the great crowd of faithful believers is that this is indeed so.
13 All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen and welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. (Hebrews 11:13)
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