Church

[BreadOfLife]

we're talking about the Advocacy of God. I hope you stay on topic.

Fiirst I'm not a "ONENESS" as you think, or whatever....... LOL. no, I'm "Diversified Oneness". which you have no clue.

I have reproved you, and corrected you over, and over. if you can disprove what I have said, not personal opinion needed, only scripture, then we can move on. but if you just want to have conversation, instead of discussion that's what facebook and tweeter are for.

you can call me a Sabellianism or Modalist, or whatever, but answer my question, like the Revelation 1:4 & 5 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood". now for the last time, is this one person, two person, or three person. please answer the question. now if you don't answer you forfeit your position.

Back in post #297 - I overwhelmed you with Scripture regarding the reality of the Holy Trinity.
So far - you haven't been able to disprove or rationalize away ONE single verse - although you keep impotently claiming victory.

"Oneness", "Diversified Oneness", or "Super-Duper Onenes" - it ALL boils down to the heresy of Modalism.
It's a man-made invention that was never taught by Scripture OR in the Early Church.

 

[amadeus]

These are basic tenets of Christianity and Judaism.
Don't forget - these 2 commands from Jesus encompass the 10 Commandments.

And a bit more than that according to the next verse:

"On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matt 22:40

As for the Trinity - without the revelation of the nature of the Godhead, we cannot have Christianity.
The entire basis if Christianity begins with the Trinity.

If it really did, do you not think that scripture would be more specific about it? Of course it probably depends upon exactly what Christianity is, doesn't it? Christianity is another one of those words that is not found in scripture. Jesus never mentioned it anywhere that I recall.

The word Christian is there and doesn't it mean simply a "follower of Christ", Christ being the Messiah, which is simply the anointed of consecrated one?

Personally what I have wanted for more than 65 years is to be a follower of Christ. If I am that, does that make me a part of Christianity without regard to your focal point here? It would seem that perhaps you have started in the wrong place.

 

[101G]

Back in post #297 - I overwhelmed you with Scripture regarding the reality of the Holy Trinity.
So far - you haven't been able to disprove or rationalize away ONE single verse - although you keep impotently claiming victory.

"Oneness", "Diversified Oneness", or "Super-Duper Onenes" - it ALL boils down to the heresy of Modalism.
It's a man-made invention that was never taught by Scripture OR in the Early Church.

talk, talk, talk, no scripture, couldn't answer the Revelation 1:4 & 5 so you loose. and that fake line all of us are advocates... LOL. case closed on no trinity.

 

[amadeus]

Stop quoting Scripture until you understand what it means . . .

Since you included those words in one of your posts, I presume that you are claiming some understanding of scripture. Perhaps you could help us all understand what these verses mean with regard to your understanding of the trinity:

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" John 17:20-22

 

[DPMartin]

No need to rethink, but Let me kill this false thinking quickly. U said, "the Word of God is of God". ERROR, listen, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". NOT "of" God, but GOD, same person.
let's kill two birds with one stone here. U said this also, "the Word of God is fulfilled because it's of and has the Power of God". ERROR again on your part, the Lord Jesus is the POWER. and you quoted, "Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit". listen, 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty". and for the Spirit part, listen, John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth".

no rethinking, just having Godly KNOWLEDGE.

PS if you want to discuss the Lord Jesus being the Holy Spirit, I'm game... (smile).

nope the Word of God goes out and returns to God (the Father in this case) fulfilled according to the will of God. even in the case of Jesus He told Mary not to touch Him because He didn't ascended to the Father yet.


Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.



there is other scripture that says the Word goes out and returns to God I'm not going to look it up.


also if Jesus is the Power, as you say, then why did He have to go and be seated at the right hand of Power, its stupid to go to power if you are power, isn't it.

even your reasoning is false, let alone not scriptural. you are, or the theology you've adopted, is making up what God is. rather that see God as He is, and shows He is. via scripture of course.

no I'm not interested in a continuous pointless argument with those who insist things mean what they want them to mean.

 

[101G]

nope the Word of God goes out and returns to God (the Father in this case) fulfilled according to the will of God. even in the case of Jesus He told Mary not to touch Him because He didn't ascended to the Father yet.


Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.



there is other scripture that says the Word goes out and returns to God I'm not going to look it up.


also if Jesus is the Power, as you say, then why did He have to go and be seated at the right hand of Power, its stupid to go to power if you are power, isn't it.

even your reasoning is false, let alone not scriptural. you are, or the theology you've adopted, is making up what God is. rather that see God as He is, and shows He is. via scripture of course.

no I'm not interested in a continuous pointless argument with those who insist things mean what they want them to mean.

Nope. Lol. Jesus is the power. See 1 Cor 1:24 case closed

 

[BreadOfLife]

Since you included those words in one of your posts, I presume that you are claiming some understanding of scripture. Perhaps you could help us all understand what these verses mean with regard to your understanding of the trinity:

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" John 17:20-22

This passage illustrates the Unity of the Trinity.
The Trinity is not 3 separate entities. God is revealed in 3 distinct Persons - in ONE Triune Godhead.

Here, in John 17, Jesus is praying for the unity of His Church, so that they will remain ONE as He and the Father are ONE. This doesn't exclude the Holy Spirit.

Are you "One" with the Body of Christ? Are you also "One" with your spouse"? Saying that you are "One" with your spouse doesn't negate the fact that you are also "One" with the Body of Christ - and vice versa.

 

[BreadOfLife]

talk, talk, talk, no scripture, couldn't answer the Revelation 1:4 & 5 so you loose. and that fake line all of us are advocates... LOL. case closed on no trinity.

And this is just another asinine example of denial.

When we are commanded in Scripture to pray for one another (James 5:16, 1 John 5:16) - we become Advocates (helpers). YOUR problem is that you don't own a dictionary.

Your other problem is that you are dishonest. You said that I didn't provide any Scripture for my claims, yet in post #297 - I gave you no less than THIRTY-FIVE verses that prove the Trinity.

I suggest you take some time off, study those verses, and pray really hard for understanding . . .

 

[101G]

The Trinity is not 3 separate entities. God is revealed in 3 distinct Persons - in ONE Triune Godhead.

Oh they are not separate now........ LOL. but God is revealed in 3 distinct Persons. do not your trinity doctrine states, the Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Holy Spirit. this mean you're in polytheism. because if he one God and three distinct person, the Lord Jesus says he Change not. well lets expose this false notion quickly, Distinct means, recognizably different in nature from something else of a similar type" well that just killed you assumption of distinctions. that's polytheism. can't wait to hear your response.

 

[BreadOfLife]

If it really did, do you not think that scripture would be more specific about it? Of course it probably depends upon exactly what Christianity is, doesn't it? Christianity is another one of those words that is not found in scripture. Jesus never mentioned it anywhere that I recall.

The word Christian is there and doesn't it mean simply a "follower of Christ", Christ being the Messiah, which is simply the anointed of consecrated one?

Personally what I have wanted for more than 65 years is to be a follower of Christ. If I am that, does that make me a part of Christianity without regard to your focal point here? It would seem that perhaps you have started in the wrong place.

First of all - if you can't come to a knowledge of the very nature of God - then you can't be a follower of Christ.
Virtually EVERY heresy begins with a misconception of the nature of God. the Trinity is indeed THE most basic tenet of Christianity - or whatever name YOU want to give it.

God created man.
Man fell, so Father sent His Son to redeem him.
The Son was sacrificed for the propitiation of man's sin, rose from the dead and ascended back to the Father.
The Holy Spirit was sent to guide the penitent to salvation.

If you reject this, then you are something - but you aren't a Christian.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh they are not separate now........ LOL. but God is revealed in 3 distinct Persons. do not your trinity doctrine states, the Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Holy Spirit. this mean you're in polytheism. because if he one God and three distinct person, the Lord Jesus says he Change not. well lets expose this false notion quickly, Distinct means, recognizably different in nature from something else of a similar type" well that just killed you assumption of distinctions. that's polytheism. can't wait to hear your response.

The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Holy Spirit.
However, they are ONE in the Godhead.

I am not my wife and my wife is not me.
HOWEVER, we became ONE in Holy Matrimony.

How old are you anyway??

 

[101G]

The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Holy Spirit.
However, they are ONE in the Godhead.

I am not my wife and my wife is not me.
HOWEVER, we became ONE in Holy Matrimony.

How old are you anyway??

I'm glad that you're not your wife.... (smile). well let's put your theory to the test. these 3 distinct persons. In the letters to the 7 churches, who is ADDRESSING the churches. Listen,

#1. Revelation 2:1 "Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks”. this is the Lord Jesus Right.

#2. Revelation 2:8 "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive”. this is the Lord Jesus Right.

#3. Revelation 2:12 "And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edge”. this is the Lord Jesus Right.

#4. Revelation 2:18 "And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass”. this is the Lord Jesus Right.

#5. Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead”. this is the Lord Jesus Right.

#6. Revelation 3:7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth”. this is the Lord Jesus Right.

#7. Revelation 3:14 "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God”. this is the Lord Jesus ALSO, Right.

Notice, all the letters are address by the Lord Jesus, but did you notice how every Letter ended? listen, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches”. The Spirit? Yes listen, John 4:24a "God is a Spirit”. it’s the Spirit that is speaking to the 7 churches. God is “a” Spirit, and there is only ONE Holy Spirit. Now, which Spirit is the Lord Jesus, who is speaking to the 7 churches. your answer please, can't wait to hear this one either.....

 

[101G]

@bol, there is only one Spirit right. many used these scripture to support their Godhead view. scripture, Acts 5:1-4 "But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God". so clearly the Holy Spirit is God. ok, but if one would have kept on reading and finish the story, then one would have a clear revelation of who the Son is. scripture, Acts 5:7-9 "And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out". the Spirit of the Lord? notice Spirit is capitalized indicating the Holy Spirit. but this is the "Lord". not the "LORD" all caps. Lord here is indicating the "Lord" Jesus. there is only one Spirit. Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling". now who is this ONE SPIRIT? let's continue, Ephesians 4:5 & 6 "One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all". One God and Father? Malachi 2:10a "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? "

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'm glad that you're not your wife.... (smile). well let's put your theory to the test. these 3 distinct persons. In the letters to the 7 churches, who is ADDRESSING the churches. Listen,

#1. Revelation 2:1 "Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks”. this is the Lord Jesus Right.

#2. Revelation 2:8 "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive”. this is the Lord Jesus Right.

#3. Revelation 2:12 "And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edge”. this is the Lord Jesus Right.

#4. Revelation 2:18 "And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass”. this is the Lord Jesus Right.

#5. Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead”. this is the Lord Jesus Right.

#6. Revelation 3:7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth”. this is the Lord Jesus Right.

#7. Revelation 3:14 "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God”. this is the Lord Jesus ALSO, Right.

Notice, all the letters are address by the Lord Jesus, but did you notice how every Letter ended? listen, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches”. The Spirit? Yes listen, John 4:24a "God is a Spirit”. it’s the Spirit that is speaking to the 7 churches. God is “a” Spirit, and there is only ONE Holy Spirit. Now, which Spirit is the Lord Jesus, who is speaking to the 7 churches. your answer please, can't wait to hear this one either.....

And again, you fail to understand the ROLES of the Trinity.
Jesus is the Word - but the Word is emblazened in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

 

[101G]

And again, you fail to understand the ROLES of the Trinity.
Jesus is the Word - but the Word is emblazened in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

ROLES, that's Modalism.... LOL.

Got busted again,
#1. you didn’t know that the Lord Jesus is the Advocate, who is the Comforter, the SAME PERSON.

#2. you didn’t know that the Lord Jesus is the Spirit speaking to the 7 churches, who is the Holy Spirit.

That’s two strikes, please don’t let it be a third.

 

[BreadOfLife]

@bol, there is only one Spirit right. many used these scripture to support their Godhead view. scripture, Acts 5:1-4 "But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God". so clearly the Holy Spirit is God. ok, but if one would have kept on reading and finish the story, then one would have a clear revelation of who the Son is. scripture, Acts 5:7-9 "And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out". the Spirit of the Lord? notice Spirit is capitalized indicating the Holy Spirit. but this is the "Lord". not the "LORD" all caps. Lord here is indicating the "Lord" Jesus. there is only one Spirit. Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling". now who is this ONE SPIRIT? let's continue, Ephesians 4:5 & 6 "One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all". One God and Father? Malachi 2:10a "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? "

THANK YOU for publicly illustrating your complete ignorance of Scripture.

Did you actually think that the NT was originally written in English??
It was written in Koine Greek. The capitalization of "LORD" is an ENGLISH dynamic.

Πνευμα (pnyoo'-mah) is translated as BOTH "Spirit of the Lord" and "Holy Spirit" in Acts 5.
Τηεοσ (theh'-os) is translated as "God".

The Holy Spirit is being called "God" in these verses.
Do your homework . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

ROLES, that's Modalism.... LOL.

Got busted again,
#1. you didn’t know that the Lord Jesus is the Advocate, who is the Comforter, the SAME PERSON.

#2. you didn’t know that the Lord Jesus is the Spirit speaking to the 7 churches, who is the Holy Spirit.

That’s two strikes, please don’t let it be a third.

Roles are "Modalism"??
Your ignorance is astonishing.

The heresy of Modalism that YOU adhere to posits that God changes into modes depending on the situation.
Orthodox Christianity understands that God reveals Himself in 3 eternally distinct Persons.

As for being "Busted" - YOU thought that the NT was originally written in English . . .

 

[101G]

THANK YOU for publicly illustrating your complete ignorance of Scripture.

Did you actually think that the NT was originally written in English??
It was written in Koine Greek. The capitalization of "LORD" is an ENGLISH dynamic.

Πνευμα (pnyoo'-mah) is translated as BOTH "Spirit of the Lord" and "Holy Spirit" in Acts 5.
Τηεοσ (theh'-os) is translated as "God".

The Holy Spirit is being called "God" in these verses.
Do your homework . . .

Roles are "Modalism"??
Your ignorance is astonishing.

The heresy of Modalism that YOU adhere to posits that God changes into modes depending on the situation.
Orthodox Christianity understands that God reveals Himself in 3 eternally distinct Persons.

As for being "Busted" - YOU thought that the NT was originally written in English . . .

Let's put all you said to test. Modalism: the doctrine that the persons of the Trinity represent only three modes or aspects of the divine revelation, not distinct and coexisting persons in the divine nature.

Role: an actor's part in a play, movie, etc.

So if they are playing roles but distinct, as U say, that bring you right back to three separate persons.

but let's put an END to your madness, and ERROR...

do this bol, just tell us who chose the apostle Paul on the Road to Damascus who then name was Saul.
was it A. the one whom you call Father. or B. the one whom you call the Son. now if they are distinct as you say, then their "ROLES" should be "distinct" also. so who chose the apostle Paul on the road to Damascus, the Father or the Son.

read the accounts first before you answer. and remember, don't strike out........

 

[101G]

THANK YOU for publicly illustrating your complete ignorance of Scripture.

Did you actually think that the NT was originally written in English??
It was written in Koine Greek. The capitalization of "LORD" is an ENGLISH dynamic.

Πνευμα (pnyoo'-mah) is translated as BOTH "Spirit of the Lord" and "Holy Spirit" in Acts 5.
Τηεοσ (theh'-os) is translated as "God".

The Holy Spirit is being called "God" in these verses.
Do your homework . . .

I did, I suggest you go to http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/act5.pdf and check the Greek here.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Let's put all you said to test. Modalism: the doctrine that the persons of the Trinity represent only three modes or aspects of the divine revelation, not distinct and coexisting persons in the divine nature.

Role: an actor's part in a play, movie, etc.

So if they are playing roles but distinct, as U say, that bring you right back to three separate persons.

but let's put an END to your madness, and ERROR...

do this bol, just tell us who chose the apostle Paul on the Road to Damascus who then name was Saul.
was it A. the one whom you call Father. or B. the one whom you call the Son. now if they are distinct as you say, then their "ROLES" should be "distinct" also. so who chose the apostle Paul on the road to Damascus, the Father or the Son.

read the accounts first before you answer. and remember, don't strike out........

Your analogy of an actor taking on different roles is classic Modalism, the heresy that YOU adhere to.
He is ONE Person taking on THREE roles.

The Trinity is THREE distinct Persons - each with a distinct role.

Jesus, the Son appeared to Saul on the Road to Damascus:
Acts 9:3-5
On his journey, as he was nearing Damascus, a light from the sky suddenly flashed around him.
He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?”
He said, “Who are you, sir?” The reply came, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.