Claim: Life begins at the first breath

[Daniel Veler]

Are you going to go through myriad verses to find out if they are prophetic (not allegorcal)? But the fact the bible speaks more of this should answer your own question.

I sent you a message. David was referring to Christ on both. It is explained in Acts. Just as Jeremiah was writing concerning Christ also.

 

[Rita]

I had to write an essay for a course on ethics, I remember considering this question of when life begins. So I decided to consider when we consider a life to be over, when the heart stops beating……..so, for me, life begins when the heart starts beating x

 

[kcnalp]

Liberals are in the baby murdering business. They don't care if it's a real person or not. They get filthy rich murdering babies.

 

[Gregory]

You need to show how you get we are angels before we became people.

and to answer that question. Michael has not fought Lucifer yet as found in REv.

Just because God foreknkows us, does not mean we pre-existed- that is jumping to conclusions.

First of all, the war in heaven has been fought.
Read:
Revelation 12:7-12 King James Version
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

verse 7: Michael and his angels fought (not will fight) against the dragon/lucifer/satan and his angels (who were these angels)
So this verse tells us that the war was fought.

Verse 8: the dragon/lucifer/satan did not prevail, and their place in heaven was not found anymore.
Verse 9: There place in heaven was not found because they were cast out. Where were they cast out? To the earth. Satan and his angels were cast to the earth. The earth that was just finished and was about to receive Adam and Eve. This is why satan was at the garden of Eden on the earth. Because he lost the war and was cast out of heaven to the earth.

Verse 10 There was rejoicing in heaven, for Jesus had won the war over satan and his accuser was cast out of heaven.
Verse 11 Michael and his angels overcame satan by the blood of Jesus, which would be in the future, and by their testimonies of this event. and they loved not their lives unto the death. This was not a little skirmish, it was unto death.
Verse 12 The heavens rejoiced, but woe unto the inhabitants of the earth because satan lost the war and will be looking to pour out his wrath on them. Again past tense, lost war and will pour out his wrath on the inhabitants of the earth.

Bottom line. War was fought, Jesus through Michael won, satan lost and was thrown out of heaven to the earth.

So who were these angels of Michaels, and the dragons? Who were these good angels that fought with Michael.
Verse 4 The dragan/lucifer/satan draws 1/3 of the stars of heaven with him and they were cast out with him. (Who were these bad angels)
There is a lot going on in heaven. Who are the sons of God shouting for joy in Job before the earth was finished? Who were the stars of heaven noted in the same verse Job 38:7.

I believe they were our spirits that were created by God and eventually those that fought with Michael kept there first estates and came to earth to further prove our devotion to God and his Christ. The war in heaven is raging again here on earth for the souls of man.

 

[Gregory]

Daniel,

What do you mean, what do I see. I see that the Lord Jesus is telling Jeremiah that he knew him before he was in his mothers womb. Remember, Jeremiah was having a conversation with the Lord Jesus Christ, the God of the OT.

 

[Gregory]

Ronald,

Was my post 24 too much to read?

I really am interested in your thoughts about this war in heaven that John says has been fought, and Isaiah talks about lucifer already fallen in his time, and Jesus Christ even said he saw satan fall from heaven like lightning in his time.

So what evidence do you have that the war in heaven has not been fought yet?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I sent you a message. David was referring to Christ on both. It is explained in Acts. Just as Jeremiah was writing concerning Christ also.

No, but you can believe what you wish. I will take the word as written.

Remember David wrote in the psalms. they are a different class of writing than the prophets. Many are clearly delineated as prophetic by their language, and others by simply looking at what was said and see if it applied to teh wiorter.

With Jeremiah it did so that should end the matter.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

First of all, the war in heaven has been fought.
Read:
Revelation 12:7-12 King James Version
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

verse 7: Michael and his angels fought (not will fight) against the dragon/lucifer/satan and his angels (who were these angels)
So this verse tells us that the war was fought.

Verse 8: the dragon/lucifer/satan did not prevail, and their place in heaven was not found anymore.
Verse 9: There place in heaven was not found because they were cast out. Where were they cast out? To the earth. Satan and his angels were cast to the earth. The earth that was just finished and was about to receive Adam and Eve. This is why satan was at the garden of Eden on the earth. Because he lost the war and was cast out of heaven to the earth.

Verse 10 There was rejoicing in heaven, for Jesus had won the war over satan and his accuser was cast out of heaven.
Verse 11 Michael and his angels overcame satan by the blood of Jesus, which would be in the future, and by their testimonies of this event. and they loved not their lives unto the death. This was not a little skirmish, it was unto death.
Verse 12 The heavens rejoiced, but woe unto the inhabitants of the earth because satan lost the war and will be looking to pour out his wrath on them. Again past tense, lost war and will pour out his wrath on the inhabitants of the earth.

Bottom line. War was fought, Jesus through Michael won, satan lost and was thrown out of heaven to the earth.

So who were these angels of Michaels, and the dragons? Who were these good angels that fought with Michael.
Verse 4 The dragan/lucifer/satan draws 1/3 of the stars of heaven with him and they were cast out with him. (Who were these bad angels)
There is a lot going on in heaven. Who are the sons of God shouting for joy in Job before the earth was finished? Who were the stars of heaven noted in the same verse Job 38:7.

I believe they were our spirits that were created by God and eventually those that fought with Michael kept there first estates and came to earth to further prove our devotion to God and his Christ. The war in heaven is raging again here on earth for the souls of man.

Well you can believe what you want about the stars and sons of God, I will stay with Scripture .

As for the war in heaven, you do realize that John is seeing a vision don't you? So do you conclude that every verse in revelation that has a past tense verb is something that already happened or do you pick and choose based on your arbitrary way of picking?

 

[Gregory]

Well you can believe what you want about the stars and sons of God, I will stay with Scripture .

As for the war in heaven, you do realize that John is seeing a vision don't you? So do you conclude that every verse in revelation that has a past tense verb is something that already happened or do you pick and choose based on your arbitrary way of picking?

The stars in heaven and the sons of God are scripture. That is why I believe in them and ask question about them. Are you not interested in a group of angels, called the sons of God that existed before the world was finished? You cannot say no, because they are not in scripture, because they are in scripture.

So who were the sons of God in Job 38:7 scripture?

Tell me when you think the war in heaven is going to happen?

You did not answer about Isaiah who tells us of the fall of satan from heaven, in scripture?

You did not comment on Jesus seeing satan fall from heaven like lightning (Luke 10:18) in the scriptures.

John says there was war in heaven and AFTER satan lost the war, he and his angels were cast out to earth. There 1 prophet of God (Isaiah) that confirms the fall, AFTER the war, And there is 1 Son of God that confirms the fall (Jesus) that confirms John is telling the truth. And its all in the scriptures. So if you are going to stay with the scriptures, so am I.
.

 

[DPMartin]

bump

 

[Enoch111]

What do you think of this claim?

Pure baloney.

 

[Enoch111]

Just because God foreknows us, does not mean we pre-existed- that is jumping to conclusions.

Following Mormon and/or other weird theology leads to some very bizarre ideas.