Co- Redemptrix

[epostle1]

Where does scripture say that Mary was spared from sin? Centuries of prayer and reflection are not validation for a doctrine. God's word is truth and what we see in the gospels is Jesus pointedly referring to His mother as a "woman" to clarify that she was no different from any other since Eve was formed from Adam's side. Mary was highly favored because she was chosen to bear the child Jesus. In that

Scripture says Mary was without sin in Luke 1:28, it requires hermenuetics to unpack. Scripture also forshadows Mary's sinlessness as the Ark of the New Covenant, but you don't have development of doctrine so these terms are foreign to you. Until you let go of your prejudice, you'll never get it.

 

[Triumph1300]

I think we can all agree it is a MORTAL SIN to conduct sexual assault with an individual, and that one should repent his sins. It doesn't matter if it's Catholic or Protestant.

The problem is that the Catholic Church does not deal with it and keeps covering it up on authority by the pope.
And it keeps happening and the perverts get away with it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The problem is that the Catholic Church does not deal with it and keeps covering it up on authority by the pope.
And it keeps happening and the perverts get away with it.

Evidence please.

Don't have any??
That's what I thought . . .

 

[michaelvpardo]

The Bible tells us that we are created at CONCEPTION - not birth (Jer. 1:5).
YOU have the mindset of most abortionists . . .

You have the mindset of a six year old, but I'm sure you'll grow up sooner than later.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Which, requires one to read that into the text. It can not be seen in the pshat reading.

Further, does an "inheritor" return the "inheritance"?

1Co 15:24b when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father




Yet, it remains, that some of the Spirit that was upon Moses, was "taken" in order to "put" it upon the seventy. So it was not just "burden" that was "taken".




Yet that does not entirely hold up. For there are many of whom are accounted to have the Holy Spirit upon them beforehand.

Further, the outpouring did not come until after the ascension, that is, until Pentecost. As an aside: of all the offerings, the offering of the first-fruits of the wheat harvest, was two loaves baked with leaven.

If it was solely as you put forth above, it could have come anytime after John 20:19. For in John 20:17, he was not to be touched. However the outpouring did not occur until some 43 days later.

Firstborn in scripture is always referring to inheritance, no reason for God to use a different meaning in one verse. God is not the author of confusion.
The Apostle Paul identifies us with Christ as co-inheritors of creation, and Jesus Himself spoke of those who would inherit the kingdom prepared beforehand by the Father. The verse that you keep quoting (1 Corinthians 15:24) speaks to the hierarchy of the Godhead, Jesus submitting to the Father, and the Holy Spirit taking of what is Christ's and giving it to us. God is not the author of confusion, but a God of order.
With regard to Moses and the seventy elders, the scripture doesn't say that God took some of the Spirit off of Moses, but that He took of the same Spirit (the Holy Spirit) that was upon Moses (not indwelling him either) and would put it upon the 70 elders. The Spirit of God is not given by measure and God is not the author of confusion.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Does it not say that John saw the Holy spirit descending like a dove and rested on Him, then the Father spoke and immediately The Spirit drove Him ( Jesus ) into the wilderness ( so still with Him )....We later find out that the Holy spirit is why Jesus can have such direct contact with the Father and all things spiritual, whereas as only human beings, we have no real access to that....Jesus then being the firstborn of The New Creation, the one in which man ( despite his sin ) can now contain The Holy Spirit of God INSIDE the human spirit ( once cleansed by Christ ), and go on to do the same things Jesus did ( according to Jesus Himself ) and also have a direct relationship with Him, through His Spirit and Jesus....It is far too much to even begin to cover here, but each of us ought to be finding out who we have become in Christ, and perhaps not concern ourselves so much with how others did it, and what they did with it....when we stand before God, we cannot excuse ourselves with :" But God, Paul said, or John said", or whomever we put there:.....His answer will always be the same :" But why didn't you come to me?"

It also says of John that the one whom he would see the Spirit fall upon would be the one greater than him that he was waiting for (a sign for John's and our understanding). The same passage has God speaking and identifying Jesus as His beloved Son to demonstrate to us all three persons of the "trinity" . This doesn't mean that Jesus wasn't already possessor of the Holy Spirit; there is nothing in scripture that tells us one way or the other. We have only the passage about Jesus's childhood visit to the temple to suggest that He did (He already possessed the evidence of the Spirit of wisdom which most theologians would equate with the Holy Spirit. BTW everyone who believes Christ has access to the Holy Spirit according to God's word, which includes you if you've believed. See Luke 11:13.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Scripture says Mary was without sin in Luke 1:28, it requires hermenuetics to unpack. Scripture also forshadows Mary's sinlessness as the Ark of the New Covenant, but you don't have development of doctrine so these terms are foreign to you. Until you let go of your prejudice, you'll never get it.

Nope, says no such thing. It requires a wild imagination, not hermeneutics to get sinless out of favored.

 

[bbyrd009]

i mean pls mushrooms would be more beneficial lol
and i am not being facetious

 

[BreadOfLife]

You have the mindset of a six year old, but I'm sure you'll grow up sooner than later.

Translation:
"I can't refute the Scriptural evidence you presented, so I'll just hurl stupid insults instead."

 

[Jun2u]

And you can't understand that this is speaking metaphorically??
How many newborn babies "speak lies"?? How many "speak" anything for that matter??

To whom are you pointing at? Psalm 58 is a parable! A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly/spiritual meaning. And, parables are also short stories used to convey a moral message, whereas, metaphors are figures of speech meant to relate two things through comparison.

Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:10-12, “Art thou a master of Israel and knowest not these things? 12 “If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Is God a bird??
Several verses talk about Him having "wings" (Psalm 91:4, Deut. 32:11, Psalm 17:8, Psalm 36:7).

Again a parable! Let me help you. You forgot about Jesus who is the very essence of God, yet Scripture teaches He is a Lamb. Is Jesus an animal?

Since you mentioned it, I challenge you to give a meaning that God has “wings” as of a bird!

Does God have a nose??
The Bible says that he parted the sea with a "blast of His nostrils" (Exod. 15:8).

What an absurdity and stupid question to ask. Every true believer knows God is a spirit. Again a parable.

Stop quoting Scripture until you understand what it means . . .

Please don’t speak for yourself that way, it’s demeaning.

The Bible doesn't say that.
First of all - God didn't tell those men to write everytibng down in a "Book."

REALLY? I’ve always known you are very boisterous and lacking knowledge in the things of God. How many times do I have to prove this? I suppose you’re glutton for punishment.

“And it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that this word came unto Jeremiah from the Lord, saying, Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day I spoke unto thee, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day.”

Likewise, Moses wrote the first five books called the Pentateuch! He could not have known the events that took place then unless God gave him the information. Moses did not live but many thousands of years after these occurrences took place.

Paul wrote letters which were inspired - and they later were added to a collection of Books which were declared to be Scripture - by the Catholic Church in the 4th century.

Furthermore, Paul said, “If any man thinks himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” Better translated, “commands of the Lord.”

You claim your church compiled the books that became Scripture at the end of the 4th Century. Was not there a gathering together of the leaders of the churches from all the world to the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325? And, later to the First Council of Constantinople in A.D. 381?

Did not the earliest church members were already taking guidance from the writings of Peter, Paul, Matthew, John, and so on? Was not the later councils and debates were largely useful in weeding out additional books that claimed the same authority, yet did not harmonize with rest of Scripture?

Secondly - the word "Bible" is found NOWHERE in ALL of Scripture.

WOW! This is the first time we’ve come to an agreement. BUT… (there is always a but) the word “Trinity” is also found nowhere in all Scripture, yet it is widely taught in the Bible and in Christian circles that there are three distinct persons in the Godhead...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!

Thirdly, there was no "Bible" to speak of until the Holy Spirit led the Catholic Church to compile and declare the Canon of Scripture at the end of the 4th century.

REALLY? I could say wrong (with bold letters and with emphasis) as you do with others, but I shall not for I have a better upbringing than that.

When Jesus walked the earth back there in Jerusalem, and each time He said, “It is written” or “God said” and so on, He was actually referring to Moses and the Prophets, at that time which was the Old Testament Books...the Bible. But never did He quote the Apocrypha books.

You really need to study your history . . .

We know who really need to study Scripture and history, don’t we?

To God Be The Glory

 

[epostle1]

To whom are you pointing at? Psalm 58 is a parable! A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly/spiritual meaning. And, parables are also short stories used to convey a moral message, whereas, metaphors are figures of speech meant to relate two things through comparison.

Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:10-12, “Art thou a master of Israel and knowest not these things? 12 “If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Again a parable! Let me help you. You forgot about Jesus who is the very essence of God, yet Scripture teaches He is a Lamb. Is Jesus an animal?

Since you mentioned it, I challenge you to give a meaning that God has “wings” as of a bird!

What an absurdity and stupid question to ask. Every true believer knows God is a spirit. Again a parable.

Please don’t speak for yourself that way, it’s demeaning.

Anthropomorphic are human like adjectives used to describe certain attributes of God because human language cannot adequately describe God. It's a problem for hyper-literalists who can't read scripture. "bird", "nostrils", "wings" and many others are not parables, they are a literary device called anthropomorphicisms and not intended to be taken literally.

REALLY? I’ve always known you are very boisterous and lacking knowledge in the things of God. How many times do I have to prove this? I suppose you’re glutton for punishment.

“And it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that this word came unto Jeremiah from the Lord, saying, Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day I spoke unto thee, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day.”

That's the words God spoke against Israel. Is that your rule of faith?

Likewise, Moses wrote the first five books called the Pentateuch! He could not have known the events that took place then unless God gave him the information. Moses did not live but many thousands of years after these occurrences took place.

Furthermore, Paul said, “If any man thinks himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” Better translated, “commands of the Lord.”

You claim your church compiled the books that became Scripture at the end of the 4th Century. Was not there a gathering together of the leaders of the churches from all the world to the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325? And, later to the First Council of Constantinople in A.D. 381?

Yes. Do you ignore the authoritive verdicts of these councils?

Did not the earliest church members were already taking guidance from the writings of Peter, Paul, Matthew, John, and so on? Was not the later councils and debates were largely useful in weeding out additional books that claimed the same authority, yet did not harmonize with rest of Scripture?

Yes, and we know why certain books were tossed. We have the names of early church members who followed the Apostles. Do you?

WOW! This is the first time we’ve come to an agreement. BUT… (there is always a but) the word “Trinity” is also found nowhere in all Scripture, yet it is widely taught in the Bible and in Christian circles that there are three distinct persons in the Godhead...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!

You accept the authoritive verdicts on the Trinity from the councils of Nicae, Ephesus, and Constantinople but reject everything else?

When Jesus walked the earth back there in Jerusalem, and each time He said, “It is written” or “God said” and so on, He was actually referring to Moses and the Prophets, at that time which was the Old Testament Books...the Bible. But never did He quote the Apocrypha books.

That's because your definition of "Apocrypha" is a Protestant invention. Deuterocanon is more accurate. It excludes the false books included in the so called Apocrypha.
Each time Jesus said "it is written" or "God said", He was TEACHING it to correct their errors, He was not using scripture to support an opinion. The "it is written" argument fails.

 

[mjrhealth]

i mean pls mushrooms would be more beneficial lol
and i am not being facetious

Waht those funny ones??

 

[LoverofChrist]

I'm not well-versed in theology(I'm still a newb to be honest), but I don't know why there are so many accusations against the Church. Without the Church, there wouldn't be a full Bible. A lot of the concepts that Protestants get like original sin come from the Holy St. Augustine. I will let my fellow brethren continue to defend the One True Church of God, but I hope Triump1300, you can one day get along with Catholics, or the Catholic Church, or the Pope for that matter.

Also, FYI, many of us don't like Pope Francis, but we still respect him since the is the successor of Peter.

 

[bbyrd009]

why there are so many accusations against the Church.

A lot of the concepts that Protestants get like original sin come from the Holy St. Augustine.

this is why, right here, wadr. Augustine was holy now? What should a Christian even say to this?

 

[BreadOfLife]

To whom are you pointing at? Psalm 58 is a parable! A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly/spiritual meaning. And, parables are also short stories used to convey a moral message, whereas, metaphors are figures of speech meant to relate two things through comparison.

Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:10-12, “Art thou a master of Israel and knowest not these things? 12 “If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Psalm 58:3
Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.
"Wicked, lying infants" is a metaphor for sinful people

Again a parable! Let me help you. You forgot about Jesus who is the very essence of God, yet Scripture teaches He is a Lamb. Is Jesus an animal?

Since you mentioned it, I challenge you to give a meaning that God has “wings” as of a bird!

These aren’t “parables” – they are PRAYERS. They are hymns and prayers of praise that use metaphorical language.

What an absurdity and stupid question to ask. Every true believer knows God is a spirit. Again a parable.

The parting of the sea was a parable??

No – it was a reality. The reference to God’s “nostrils” was symbolic language, my confused little friend . . .

REALLY? I’ve always known you are very boisterous and lacking knowledge in the things of God. How many times do I have to prove this? I suppose you’re glutton for punishment.

“And it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that this word came unto Jeremiah from the Lord, saying, Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day I spoke unto thee, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day.”

Likewise, Moses wrote the first five books called the Pentateuch! He could not have known the events that took place then unless God gave him the information. Moses did not live but many thousands of years after these occurrences took place.

Ummmm, YOU stated that God instructed the men who wrote the Bible to write it down into a “Book”.

This is patently false. You gave me ONE example from Jeremiah.
Where was Isaiah and Joshua and Micah and Matthew, Mark, Luke and John or Paul or Peter or Jude told who write everything down in a “Book”.
This is utter nonsense.

As I schooled you earlier – MOST of them wrote letters that BECAME Scripture.

Furthermore, Paul said, “If any man thinks himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” Better translated, “commands of the Lord.”

You claim your church compiled the books that became Scripture at the end of the 4th Century. Was not there a gathering together of the leaders of the churches from all the world to the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325? And, later to the First Council of Constantinople in A.D. 381?

Did not the earliest church members were already taking guidance from the writings of Peter, Paul, Matthew, John, and so on? Was not the later councils and debates were largely useful in weeding out additional books that claimed the same authority, yet did not harmonize with rest of Scripture?

WRONG, my historically-bankrupt friend.

Prior to the Catholic Church’s declaration of the Canon of Scripture in the 4th century – there were MANY Books that were considered to be “Scripture” and were read aloud from pulpits for 300 years. Some of these Books included the Shepherd of Hermas, the Protoevangelium of James, the Epistles of Barnabas and the Letter of Clement.

It was the Catholic Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit that declared the Canon of Scripture.
As for the “churches from all the world” at the Councils – they were all CATHOLIC.

Do your HOMEWORK.

WOW! This is the first time we’ve come to an agreement. BUT… (there is always a but) the word “Trinity” is also found nowhere in all Scripture, yet it is widely taught in the Bible and in Christian circles that there are three distinct persons in the Godhead...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!

Yup – and it was the Catholic Church that came up with BOTH of these names . . .

REALLY? I could say wrong (with bold letters and with emphasis) as you do with others, but I shall not for I have a better upbringing than that.

When Jesus walked the earth back there in Jerusalem, and each time He said, “It is written” or “God said” and so on, He was actually referring to Moses and the Prophets, at that time which was the Old Testament Books...the Bible. But never did He quote the Apocrypha books.

Are you really this ignorant – or is this just an act??

First of all – the Bible, as we Christians know it has the Old and New Testaments. There was no fully compiled Bible until the Catholic Church declared the Canon in the 4th century at the Councils of Rome, Carthage and Hippo.

As for The 7 Deuterocanonical Books - what YOU ignorantly refer to as "Apocrypha" - there are over 150 quotes, references and allusions to these Books in the New Testament.

I can’t stress this enough: Do your HOMEWORK.

We know who really need to study Scripture and history, don’t we?

Yes – and as I’ve illustrated here - it’s YOU . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nope, says no such thing. It requires a wild imagination, not hermeneutics to get sinless out of favored.

You can sit there and stubbornly insist that an apple is NOT an apple but an orange - but it never will be.
You can deny the implications of Mary's status as "Kecharitomene" all day long - but at the end of the day, you'll STILL be wrong . . .

 

[michaelvpardo]

Translation:
"I can't refute the Scriptural evidence you presented, so I'll just hurl stupid insults instead."

Translation: Wah, wah, wah. Nobody believes a thing I say.

 

[michaelvpardo]

You can sit there and stubbornly insist that an apple is NOT an apple but an orange - but it never will be.
You can deny the implications of Mary's status as "Kecharitomene" all day long - but at the end of the day, you'll STILL be wrong . . .

You wouldn't know a sound hermeneutic if it bit you in the butt. In the end you're still a boob.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You wouldn't know a sound hermeneutic if it bit you in the butt. In the end you're still a boob.

Translation:
"I can't refute the Scriptural evidence you presented, so I'll just hurl moronic insults instead."

 

[epostle1]

michaelvpardo, post: 369127, member: 3644"]You wouldn't know a sound hermeneutic if it bit you in the butt. In the end you're still a boob.

I'm curious to see what your private interpretation of "Kecharitomene" is, so I can see how it lines up with it's development over several centuries, including the beliefs of Luther, Calvin and Zwingl.

The Bible, Luther, & Calvin on Calling Mary “Blessed”

John Calvin Believed in the Perpetual Virginity of Mary [6-17-10]

John Calvin: Sermon 22 on Matthew 1:22-25 (Mary’s Perpetual Virginity) [10-14-14]

Mariology of “Reformers” Zwingli & Bullinger [4-28-16]

Mary Mother of God: Protestant Founders Agree (Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, Bullinger, and Lutheranism) [10-10-08]

Zwingli’s Belief in Mary’s Sinlessness [9-30-10]
Mary: The Blessed Virgin (Index Page)
You are cutting off the branch you are sitting on, unless you are in a fundie cult that defies all matter of authority (except yours).