Co- Redemptrix

[bbyrd009]

The question was not do they, but how?

ah, hence the link

 

[michaelvpardo]

ah, hence the link

I followed your link, but I have a pretty good grip on the concept of God's Sovereignty and providence. These concepts are the only way to understand Romans 8:28-30, but free will isn't really a consideration until Christ sets us free.

 

[bbyrd009]

I followed your link, but I have a pretty good grip on the concept of God's Sovereignty and providence. These concepts are the only way to understand Romans 8:28-30, but free will isn't really a consideration until Christ sets us free.

ha well part a is, i guess i'm still not a great listener yet lol, and ya i was just wondering about part b myself the other day, the free will part. As for the bolded, 34Who then is the one who condemns? seems to be the right reply there, at the risk of compounding my error :)

 

[michaelvpardo]

ha well part a is, i guess i'm still not a great listener yet lol, and ya i was just wondering about part b myself the other day, the free will part. As for the bolded, 34Who then is the one who condemns? seems to be the right reply there, at the risk of compounding my error :)

I suppose the point is that it isn't us. Scripture warns to make no judgment before the time (the time for judgment.) We don't know people's hearts, we can only make judgments about their actions. More significantly, it is God who changes our hearts and we have no way of knowing when He does so or if He chooses to do so. We can speculate, but scripture also warns us that we are unable to rightly judge those with the Spirit of God, consequently judgment (in that regard) is righteously suspended. Unfortunately many within and without the church confuse the concepts of judgment with discernment, and discernment has been required by God (that we learn to choose good over evil.)

 

[bbyrd009]

I suppose the point is that it isn't us.

um...well, isn't supposed to be anyway, ya. Check out how the Book makes "isn't" into "is?" Obviously "no one" is some one, right
someone is no one

Scripture warns to make no judgment before the time (the time for judgment.)

as if, right

More significantly, it is God who changes our hearts

ya, God hardened Pharaoh's heart, huh

we have no way of knowing when He does so or if He chooses to do so.

plain as the nose on your face imo, and i'm pretty sure He chooses to do so, isn't it God's will that all come to...ya

We can speculate

ha can't we now, we are all speculators i guess lol

scripture also warns us that we are unable to rightly judge those with the Spirit of God, consequently judgment (in that regard) is righteously suspended.

back to as if now huh
i mean Word :)

Unfortunately many within and without the church confuse the concepts of judgment with discernment, and discernment has been required by God (that we learn to choose good over evil.)

so much for that def of church huh. or i mean Word again, nice post

 

[michaelvpardo]

um...well, isn't supposed to be anyway, ya. Check out how the Book makes "isn't" into "is?" Obviously "no one" is some one, right
someone is no one

as if, right

ya, God hardened Pharaoh's heart, huh
plain as the nose on your face imo, and i'm pretty sure He chooses to do so, isn't it God's will that all come to...ya

ha can't we now, we are all speculators i guess lol
back to as if now huh
i mean Word :)so much for that def of church huh. or i mean Word again, nice post

church really just means congregation. If you're speaking about Christ's body, now that's something entirely different.

 

[bbyrd009]

church really just means congregation.

ya, i been doing that for years too, that artificial separation of Church and everyone else, guess i better stop now

If you're speaking about Christ's body, now that's something entirely different.

don't see how

 

[BreadOfLife]

church really just means congregation. If you're speaking about Christ's body, now that's something entirely different.

WRONG.
The Bible defines the Church as the Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:12-31).

- Jesus established ONE Church (Matt. 16:16-19). He prayed fervently that this Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23). There is NO other.
- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).
- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).
- Jesus gave the Church supreme Authority on earth and whatever it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).

Christ and the Church are indivisible because it is His BODY. - of which He is the HEAD (Col. 1:18).

 

[GodsGrace]

No - God doesn't want people like YOU to continue to spew lies about His Church.
THAT'S disgraceful.

I said it before and I'll say it again: Don't lie about the Catholic Church or its teachings like you normally do - and you won't hear fro me.

It's really that simple . . .

I already asked you another time to tell me where you live or the name of your bishop so I could write to him.

First of all, I don't care to be called a liar in an open thread.
Second of all, I don't lie.
Everything I post about Catholicism is CORRECT.

You turn people away from Catholicism with your diatribes.
It's disgraceful.

 

[GodsGrace]

I really do wish I could disagree. Praying especially for BOL!

I have no idea what you mean by this.
BoL is a disgrace to his church. (small c)
It's nice if someone explains Catholicism.
Certainly NOT him.
He spews as much hatred as he claims Protestants have for the Cath ch.
(small c)

Another thing... he just can't accept what's going on in the church.
He's a traditional Catholic and any change upsets him.

I wonder if he knows that they're thinking of eliminating Original Sin?
And why? Because God cannot impute to US the sin of another.

That's all I have to say.
Except...
HAPPY NEW YEAR!

 

[bbyrd009]

You turn people away from Catholicism with your diatribes.
It's disgraceful.

haven't you turned away from Catholicism? imo what he is doing then is wonderful

 

[amadeus]

I have no idea what you mean by this.

Of course I was agreeing with you with regard to the way he is handling himself on behalf of his church. He is a well versed person who knows a lot of good things and really seems to know what the official Catholic stance is. If he learned to have more charity and mercy on those with whom he disagrees, he would likely win some people to Catholicism.

BoL is a disgrace to his church. (small c)

But then lots of people who label themselves Christian [be they formal Catholic or not] are really a disgrace to God. His intent is I believe good, but he does remind me of the Apostle Paul before he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Maybe BOL will have his road to Damascus encounter one day.

It's nice if someone explains Catholicism.
Certainly NOT him.
He spews as much hatred as he claims Protestants have for the Cath ch.
(small c)[

Ah well, I must admit that I have seen too much the same thing going in the other direction. This is not a good reason, for for someone in the flesh it makes it more understandable why he would proceed as he does. Like Saul [to become Paul] he saw the damage without really recognizing the benefit.

Another thing... he just can't accept what's going on in the church.
He's a traditional Catholic and any change upsets him.

I wonder if he knows that they're thinking of eliminating Original Sin?
And why? Because God cannot impute to US the sin of another.

That's all I have to say.
Except...
HAPPY NEW YEAR!

His stand against change would be more admirable if it he understood better what should be changed and what should not. He is unwilling to listen to most folk. Maybe that meeting on the road is overdue.

Happy new Year!

 

[michaelvpardo]

WRONG.
The Bible defines the Church as the Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:12-31).

- Jesus established ONE Church (Matt. 16:16-19). He prayed fervently that this Church remain ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23). There is NO other.
- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).
- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).
- Jesus gave the Church supreme Authority on earth and whatever it ordains on earth is also ordained in heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).

Christ and the Church are indivisible because it is His BODY. - of which He is the HEAD (Col. 1:18).

again you demonstrate your immaturity and penchant for telling lies. Is the church of Mormon part of the body of christ? Maybe you should find a good elementary school to attend.

 

[michaelvpardo]

ya, i been doing that for years too, that artificial separation of Church and everyone else, guess i better stop now

don't see how

Christ's body are those who have His indwelling Spirit. How else could they be His body? Being a church member, getting dunked or sprinkled, whatever, means nothing unless you've received Him by faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

Christ's body are those who have His indwelling Spirit. How else could they be His body? Being a church member, getting dunked or sprinkled, whatever, means nothing unless you've received Him by faith.

You're right of course, Michaelvpardo.
There is only one Church. (capital C)
It is the Body of Christ.
Jesus is the head and we are the body.

 

[GodsGrace]

Of course I was agreeing with you with regard to the way he is handling himself on behalf of his church. He is a well versed person who knows a lot of good things and really seems to know what the official Catholic stance is. If he learned to have more charity and mercy on those with whom he disagrees, he would likely win some people to Catholicism.


But then lots of people who label themselves Christian [be they formal Catholic or not] are really a disgrace to God. His intent is I believe good, but he does remind me of the Apostle Paul before he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Maybe BOL will have his road to Damascus encounter one day.


Ah well, I must admit that I have seen too much the same thing going in the other direction. This is not a good reason, for for someone in the flesh it makes it more understandable why he would proceed as he does. Like Saul [to become Paul] he saw the damage without really recognizing the benefit.


His stand against change would be more admirable if it he understood better what should be changed and what should not. He is unwilling to listen to most folk. Maybe that meeting on the road is overdue.

Happy new Year!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hey, is this a Mary thread?
Or are we talking about something else?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Well since you put it this way, I can give an analogy about our place in the order of things. In an airplane, you have the captain, the first officer, and the flight attendants. Lets say the Father is the captain, and Jesus Christ is the first officer, or second in command. As a flight attendant, or an assistant, as you call it, are you equal with the captain and first officer, or does the captain and F.O have full authority over the crew? If its the former, then yes, we are co-redeemers, but if it is the latter, then we sure as hell are not, and are in fact Gods assistants in the mission of "making disciples of many nations". Think hard on this, because to call yourself "co-redeemer" makes you equal with the captain and F.O, or with Jesus Christ and the Father. Are you equal with Jesus Christ? How about the Holy Spirit, are you equal with it?



These are all cases of resurrections, which is not surprising being that God has the power over life and death. But what about other feats such as the exercising of a demon? In this scripture for instance, why did Jesus Christ even bother asking the sons father if he believed before he exercised the demon if no faith was required on his or the sons part? Are all things possible with faith or without faith? Jesus Christ clearly states the former to be the case.



As for Jairus, he clearly believed seeing he begged Jesus to heal his daughter, which would be sufficient enough in of itself to Jesus Christ as was also clearly the case here with the boys father.

The Holy Spirit is an "it"?
Now I've heard it all.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I already asked you another time to tell me where you live or the name of your bishop so I could write to him.

First of all, I don't care to be called a liar in an open thread.
Second of all, I don't lie.
Everything I post about Catholicism is CORRECT.

You turn people away from Catholicism with your diatribes.
It's disgraceful.

First of all - you just lied again. I have never called you a "liar".

Secondly - you DO lie about what the Church teaches and I have exposed you many times on this forum for it. You make a claim and I prove you wrong straight from the Catechism. That's when you usually tell me that you have an "inside track" because you live in Italy, which is preposterous.

Like I said - exposing lies is NOT what is disgraceful. It's people like YOU who continue to lie with impunity.
Now, that's disgraceful . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

again you demonstrate your immaturity and penchant for telling lies. Is the church of Mormon part of the body of christ? Maybe you should find a good elementary school to attend.

No, the Mormonism is NOT part of the Body of Christ, but a man made cult.

Now, which part of my post (#228) was a "lie"??
CAN you explain?