comfort in predestination

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zoe2011

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Jun 14, 2011
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Hi,

I'm new here, but there is a topic I would really like to here from you on. Does anyone here find comfort in the statements in the bible concerning God predestining us? I really do. I don't want a big Calvinist versus Arminian debate, but rather people who've taken comfort in the fact that he or she has been predestined by God to be with him forever.
 

martinlawrencescott

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Sometimes thinking about it gets me caught in this thought vortex of how free will and God's will can work together, but when they do line up there is nothing like it. Before, I couldn't take credit for any good work I thought I was doing and my disobedience was counted against me. Now Christ takes credit for both the good (glory to God) and bad (covered by grace by his work on the cross) that I do. Not that I strive to do bad knowing it will be covered, but I can live in a rested joy knowing I'd rather be in no other place than the center of His will.
 

martinlawrencescott

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I agree with what Toby is saying; sometimes we feel "shut in" by God when we think about being predestined for eternity, and it is a mystery how we can both choose what God wants us to do as well as being foreknown by God about our decision. I believe that God, in the end, will transform our hearts through sanctifying us so there is no more of our nature opposed to God's perfect will. Then my free-will will be the same as God's perfect will, and there will be unity in love, thought, and vision. It is a lot to look forward to.
 

aspen

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We were all predestined to be with God forever, but stuff happens, like the Fall.

My wife and I were predestined to be married and live together until death do us part, but there is no guarantee we will fulfill our destiny.
 

rockytopva

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In my view of the church ages...

http://www.christian...-per-gods-word/

The churches have their own unique 'things'

Ephesus - Apostolic - The Apostles struggled to preserve the true faith... 2 Timothy 1:15
Smyrna - Martyr - The persecution kept the faith pure as Myrrh... Which is a costly perfume in the Greek.
Pergomos - Is towers in the Greek. The Orthodox church dwelt in towers in this time
Thyatira - 'Blow Smoke' in the Greek. The spirit of Jezebel is to dominate and control, in which the Catholics in their time were ruthless
Sardis - A Gem... The protestants in their time were a decent people in appearance... Very hard on the doctrine.
Philadelphia - Love... The great awakening.
Laodicea - The material church... Plenty of issues here!

A unique doctrine of the Philadelphian church was the rapture and an unique doctrine in the Sardisian church is predestination.

As this is a multi-denomination board you can expect about 1 in 7 to agree with John Calvin. In which it looks that was for the doctrine of the rapture... Not everyone believes in it.

In which I hope we can all recognize and live with our individual unique doctrine and not expect everyone to believe everything exactly the same way we do.
 

WhiteKnuckle

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Hey Toby,

Find another board to run your mouth! None of that is appreciated or called for. There's not a person on this board that has done anything to you.
 

Angelina

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Hi Zoe!
I'm new here, but there is a topic I would really like to here from you on. Does anyone here find comfort in the statements in the bible concerning God predestining us? I really do. I don't want a big Calvinist versus Arminian debate, but rather people who've taken comfort in the fact that he or she has been predestined by God to be with him forever.

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:4-6
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

Ephesians 1:7-14
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.



1 Corinthians 15:20-24
[sup]20[/sup] But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. [sup]21[/sup] For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. [sup]22[/sup] For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. [sup]23[/sup] But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. [sup]24[/sup] Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.



Thoughts to ponder on...


John 17:1-26

Jesus Prays for Himself
[sup]1[/sup] Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, [sup]2[/sup] as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. [sup]3[/sup] And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. [sup]4[/sup] I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. [sup]5[/sup] And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. [sup]14[/sup] I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. [sup]15[/sup] I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. [sup]16[/sup] They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. [sup]17[/sup] Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. [sup]18[/sup] As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. [sup]19[/sup] And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Jesus Prays for All Believers

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”



Blessings and Amen!!!
 

zoe2011

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Jun 14, 2011
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Thank you Angelina! Wonderful!!! Blessings :)

Hi Zoe!


Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:4-6
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

Ephesians 1:7-14
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.



1 Corinthians 15:20-24
[sup]20[/sup] But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. [sup]21[/sup] For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. [sup]22[/sup] For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. [sup]23[/sup] But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. [sup]24[/sup] Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.



Thoughts to ponder on...


John 17:1-26

Jesus Prays for Himself
[sup]1[/sup] Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, [sup]2[/sup] as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. [sup]3[/sup] And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. [sup]4[/sup] I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. [sup]5[/sup] And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. [sup]14[/sup] I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. [sup]15[/sup] I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. [sup]16[/sup] They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. [sup]17[/sup] Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. [sup]18[/sup] As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. [sup]19[/sup] And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Jesus Prays for All Believers

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”



Blessings and Amen!!!
 

Cobbler

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Jan 24, 2011
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Good post.

Answering your question, I have found massive comfort since God opened my eyes to the fact he predestines us for Salvation - and also the fact that when God saves someone, they cannot be lost - Therefore I also have assurance of my salvation.
 

Rach1370

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Apr 17, 2010
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Hi,

I'm new here, but there is a topic I would really like to here from you on. Does anyone here find comfort in the statements in the bible concerning God predestining us? I really do. I don't want a big Calvinist versus Arminian debate, but rather people who've taken comfort in the fact that he or she has been predestined by God to be with him forever.

Hi zoe2011, welcome! Yes, I find wonderful comfort in it. It makes me feel special that He chose me...not because I deserve it, but because He loves me!
I do wonder at those who jump into the 'calvin' debate. If a person is not a Christian, they really don't care either way...so it's mostly Christians who complain about predestination. Which I don't get! If we're saved, and it was due to the fact that God 'foreknew' us, why would we even want to complain!!! Doesn't being a Christian usually mean one is happy being where they are, salvation wise?? Anyway, I'm happy right where I am!! If free will could mean that I don't end up belonging to Jesus, I wouldn't want it!
 

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Hi zoe2011, welcome! Yes, I find wonderful comfort in it. It makes me feel special that He chose me...not because I deserve it, but because He loves me!
I do wonder at those who jump into the 'calvin' debate. If a person is not a Christian, they really don't care either way...so it's mostly Christians who complain about predestination. Which I don't get! If we're saved, and it was due to the fact that God 'foreknew' us, why would we even want to complain!!! Doesn't being a Christian usually mean one is happy being where they are, salvation wise?? Anyway, I'm happy right where I am!! If free will could mean that I don't end up belonging to Jesus, I wouldn't want it!

Christians are pretty much comfortable with predestination or freedom of the will, either way. Those that are convinced of God's love and salvation are usually only mildly concerned about how they got into the heavenly good graces. We're just real glad we're there. We spend much time and energy struggling over how we can best serve God's will in our lives or how we can find it. The idea of contradicting God's will is alien to us, except when trying to present the gospel to a sinner.

On the other hand, we've got legions of detractors who cry foul at any suggestion that God makes any choices at all - or even that there IS a God.

"Esau I hated," He says, "and Jacob I loved."

Such snippets of scripture are used to deny the justice of God altogether, except that the context of the story is conveniently forgotten. Both men in the aforementioned story did well in life. Jacob received God's divine blessings for his future lineage. Esau did ok by himself too. Both men were wealthy by the standards of their time. Ours too, I guess. Jacob may have received 100% of God's revelations and promises for the future, but in the end both were reunited and lived peacefully together. Can such be said of every Christian family today?

Bottom line here is that it appears in the Bible story that God's hate of Esau is far more pleasant than the love of the world (which constantly seeks to con you out of what is yours).