If you can win a brother, with fewer words: should that be the rule? Or is speaking in many words, proof of the greater love of God? (choice?)

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Gottservant

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Hi there,

So I have been reading this and that, and discussing whether Churches are hot or cold, and I have come to the conclusion that words themselves can be hot or cold, because they can be few or great. Now how is few or great the same as hot or cold, I hear you ask? In the same sense that one degree is colder than many degrees is hot. It's not rocket surgery.

What I am wondering, is if there is an attitude that should go with the words we use. If we use less, is that better if we use less as a rule? Or if we use more, should those with us be enamored that God wants to speak to us so much? I find it very hard to read long passages, I understand that the authors want me to feel loved, but it is a much taller order for me to give cold love back to words upon words (I basically summarize what I can, and interject a little wisdom, if I have any). There are times when I am blown away by how much wisdom people have, but rarely do I find someone saying anything strong in ten quotes than one. Speech is based on a pattern, most of the time; if you can figure out where the author is trying to take the pattern of speech they are using, you basically have hope in understanding the point, without going into further detail at length (in principle anyway).

Now, I suppose what you may not have considered, is that this forum could be hot or cold! For that I am praying that it be cold - because I would love to be understood for fewer words, than more; I would love to be edified as I am at my cold Church, in my cold Nation. Moreover, surviving lawlessness is easier, because lawlessness leads to the love of many growing cold (gospels, from memory), but if you are cold already and have faith, you can see the coldness coming. Therefore, a cold Church is at least in principle a stronger Church. What I am wondering, is if we can gather around being cold, can we speak as being cold? What are the benefits of speaking in a cold way? With fewer words?

Obviously you can't refuse a brother, simply because he uses more words than you would like - but there is a kernel of truth there, that if he loves you, he should at least try in some way to accommodate your desire for fewer words. That specifically, is what I am praying! It may just be a little summary here or there, a little word of wisdom, I think, as a rule, would make all the difference to this forum. I'm not trying to spoil the fun, of tying countless verses together in a string of cohesion that blows the Devil's intentions out of the water. I'm just saying "have mercy!" a treatise on all the details of the word "the" in scripture would reveal something, but is that really why we are here, discussing what is heartfelt to us? Ask the Holy Spirit? Does He use many words or less?

Anyway, I am not shaming anyone (look! four paragraphs! he is contradicting himself!), I am just trying to be an encouragement - there are more cold believers than just me on this board!

God bless.
 
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Nancy

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Hi there,

So I have been reading this and that, and discussing whether Churches are hot or cold, and I have come to the conclusion that words themselves can be hot or cold, because they can be few or great. Now how is few or great the same as hot or cold, I hear you ask? In the same sense that one degree is colder than many degrees is hot. It's not rocket surgery.

What I am wondering, is if there is an attitude that should go with the words we use. If we use less, is that better if we use less as a rule? Or if we use more, should those with us be enamored that God wants to speak to us so much? I find it very hard to read long passages, I understand that the authors want me to feel loved, but it is a much taller order for me to give cold love back to words upon words (I basically summarize what I can, and interject a little wisdom, if I have any). There are times when I am blown away by how much wisdom people have, but rarely do I find someone saying anything strong in ten quotes than one. Speech is based on a pattern, most of the time; if you can figure out where the author is trying to take the pattern of speech they are using, you basically have hope in understanding the point, without going into further detail at length (in principle anyway).

Now, I suppose what you may not have considered, is that this forum could be hot or cold! For that I am praying that it be cold - because I would love to be understood for fewer words, than more; I would love to be edified as I am at my cold Church, in my cold Nation. Moreover, surviving lawlessness is easier, because lawlessness leads to the love of many growing cold (gospels, from memory), but if you are cold already and have faith, you can see the coldness coming. Therefore, a cold Church is at least in principle a stronger Church. What I am wondering, is if we can gather around being cold, can we speak as being cold? What are the benefits of speaking in a cold way? With fewer words?

Obviously you can't refuse a brother, simply because he uses more words than you would like - but there is a kernel of truth there, that if he loves you, he should at least try in some way to accommodate your desire for fewer words. That specifically, is what I am praying! It may just be a little summary here or there, a little word of wisdom, I think, as a rule, would make all the difference to this forum. I'm not trying to spoil the fun, of tying countless verses together in a string of cohesion that blows the Devil's intentions out of the water. I'm just saying "have mercy!" a treatise on all the details of the word "the" in scripture would reveal something, but is that really why we are here, discussing what is heartfelt to us? Ask the Holy Spirit? Does He use many words or less?

Anyway, I am not shaming anyone (look! four paragraphs! he is contradicting himself!), I am just trying to be an encouragement - there are more cold believers than just me on this board!

God bless.
Hello Gott!
Proverbs 10:19 say's: "When words are many, sin is unavoidable, but he who restrains his lips is wise."

Like yourself, looong posts which consist of mostly "opinions", gives me pause and I rarely will read one longer than a paragraph or two. :)
 
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Jay Ross

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Hello Gott!
Proverbs 10:19 say's: "When words are many, sin is unavoidable, but he who restrains his lips is wise."

Like yourself, looong posts which consist of mostly "opinions", gives me pause and I rarely will read one longer than a paragraph or two. :)

The many words spread over multiple posts one after the other also comes into this category.
 

Johann

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What I am wondering, is if there is an attitude that should go with the words we use. If we use less, is that better if we use less as a rule? Or if we use more, should those with us be enamored that God wants to speak to us so much? I find it very hard to read long passages, I understand that the authors want me to feel loved, but it is a much taller order for me to give cold love back to words upon words (I basically summarize what I can, and interject a little wisdom, if I have any).
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Act 17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few

More noble than those (eugenesteroi tōn). Comparative form of eugenēs, old and common adjective, but in N.T. only here and Luk_19:12; 1Co_1:26. Followed by ablative case tōn as often after the comparative.
With all readiness of mind (meta pāsēs prothumias).

Old word from prothumos (pro, thumos) and means eagerness, rushing forward. In the N.T. only here and 2Co_8:11-19; 2Co_9:2. In Thessalonica many of the Jews out of pride and prejudice refused to listen. Here the Jews joyfully welcomed the two Jewish visitors.

Examining the Scriptures daily (kath' hēmeran anakrinontes tas graphas).

Paul expounded the Scriptures daily as in Thessalonica, but the Beroeans, instead of resenting his new interpretation, examined (anakrinō means to sift up and down, make careful and exact research as in legal processes as in Act_4:9; Act_12:19, etc.) the Scriptures for themselves. In Scotland people have the Bible open on the preacher as he expounds the passage, a fine habit worth imitating.

Whether these things were so (ei echoi tauta houtōs). Literally, “if these things had it thus.” The present optative in the indirect question represents an original present indicative as in Luk_1:29 (Robertson, Grammar, pp. 1043f.). This use of ei with the optative may be looked at as the condition of the fourth class (undetermined with less likelihood of determination) as in Act_17:27; Act_20:16; Act_24:19; Act_27:12 (Robertson, Grammar, p. 1021). The Beroeans were eagerly interested in the new message of Paul and Silas but they wanted to see it for themselves. What a noble attitude. Paul’s preaching made Bible students of them. The duty of private interpretation is thus made plain (Hovey).RWP.

Amazing hey?
J.
 
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Bob Estey

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Hi there,

So I have been reading this and that, and discussing whether Churches are hot or cold, and I have come to the conclusion that words themselves can be hot or cold, because they can be few or great. Now how is few or great the same as hot or cold, I hear you ask? In the same sense that one degree is colder than many degrees is hot. It's not rocket surgery.

What I am wondering, is if there is an attitude that should go with the words we use. If we use less, is that better if we use less as a rule? Or if we use more, should those with us be enamored that God wants to speak to us so much? I find it very hard to read long passages, I understand that the authors want me to feel loved, but it is a much taller order for me to give cold love back to words upon words (I basically summarize what I can, and interject a little wisdom, if I have any). There are times when I am blown away by how much wisdom people have, but rarely do I find someone saying anything strong in ten quotes than one. Speech is based on a pattern, most of the time; if you can figure out where the author is trying to take the pattern of speech they are using, you basically have hope in understanding the point, without going into further detail at length (in principle anyway).

Now, I suppose what you may not have considered, is that this forum could be hot or cold! For that I am praying that it be cold - because I would love to be understood for fewer words, than more; I would love to be edified as I am at my cold Church, in my cold Nation. Moreover, surviving lawlessness is easier, because lawlessness leads to the love of many growing cold (gospels, from memory), but if you are cold already and have faith, you can see the coldness coming. Therefore, a cold Church is at least in principle a stronger Church. What I am wondering, is if we can gather around being cold, can we speak as being cold? What are the benefits of speaking in a cold way? With fewer words?

Obviously you can't refuse a brother, simply because he uses more words than you would like - but there is a kernel of truth there, that if he loves you, he should at least try in some way to accommodate your desire for fewer words. That specifically, is what I am praying! It may just be a little summary here or there, a little word of wisdom, I think, as a rule, would make all the difference to this forum. I'm not trying to spoil the fun, of tying countless verses together in a string of cohesion that blows the Devil's intentions out of the water. I'm just saying "have mercy!" a treatise on all the details of the word "the" in scripture would reveal something, but is that really why we are here, discussing what is heartfelt to us? Ask the Holy Spirit? Does He use many words or less?

Anyway, I am not shaming anyone (look! four paragraphs! he is contradicting himself!), I am just trying to be an encouragement - there are more cold believers than just me on this board!

God bless.
I keep my messages as short as possible. People have short attention spans. I have a short attention span.
 
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FrankB

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Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Act 17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few

More noble than those (eugenesteroi tōn). Comparative form of eugenēs, old and common adjective, but in N.T. only here and Luk_19:12; 1Co_1:26. Followed by ablative case tōn as often after the comparative.
With all readiness of mind (meta pāsēs prothumias).

Old word from prothumos (pro, thumos) and means eagerness, rushing forward. In the N.T. only here and 2Co_8:11-19; 2Co_9:2. In Thessalonica many of the Jews out of pride and prejudice refused to listen. Here the Jews joyfully welcomed the two Jewish visitors.

Examining the Scriptures daily (kath' hēmeran anakrinontes tas graphas).

Paul expounded the Scriptures daily as in Thessalonica, but the Beroeans, instead of resenting his new interpretation, examined (anakrinō means to sift up and down, make careful and exact research as in legal processes as in Act_4:9; Act_12:19, etc.) the Scriptures for themselves. In Scotland people have the Bible open on the preacher as he expounds the passage, a fine habit worth imitating.

Whether these things were so (ei echoi tauta houtōs). Literally, “if these things had it thus.” The present optative in the indirect question represents an original present indicative as in Luk_1:29 (Robertson, Grammar, pp. 1043f.). This use of ei with the optative may be looked at as the condition of the fourth class (undetermined with less likelihood of determination) as in Act_17:27; Act_20:16; Act_24:19; Act_27:12 (Robertson, Grammar, p. 1021). The Beroeans were eagerly interested in the new message of Paul and Silas but they wanted to see it for themselves. What a noble attitude. Paul’s preaching made Bible students of them. The duty of private interpretation is thus made plain (Hovey).RWP.

Amazing hey?
J.
What is the intent of my words? Am I speaking to elevate me or God?
 

Logikos

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Why does it need to be a choice?

The Apostle Paul spoke for hours on end and well into the night to the point that one man fell asleep and fell out of a third story window!
Jesus' sermon on the mount can be spoken aloud in just a few minutes.

Neither were any more or less appropriate than the other.

Speak the truth in as many words as it takes to do so. In some situations brevity is called for, in others, details are appropriate or even necessary. It depends on the context. Who is being spoken to, about what? Where is the speech happening and why? There are several factors that can have an effect on the length of time and the number of words used.