Another one by me.
And sadly this is what it will like in many homes in the next few days, and basically why I started this thread.
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Another one by me.
And sadly this is what it will like in many homes in the next few days, and basically why I started this thread.
What do you call pagan things? @amigo de christo
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It's sad that Christmas has turned into a commercial exploit. It reminds one of the state of the temple when Jesus overturned the money changers tables. Through the years, I have noticed something. There used to be an unwritten rule that Christmas wasn't mentioned until after Thanksgiving. It then started to be mentioned around mid november. This year, I actually saw some Christmas ads at the beginning of October....lol. Sad but true.
Wrangler
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It really is the worst time of year, despite the propaganda. Expectations rise beyond reality. People get stressed trying to achieve this dream. It is not a coincidence that more suicides are at this time of year.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Hey Nancy...it’s all in the translation.....having done original language word studies, this translation is in error.
The word rendered “worship” (pro·sky·neʹo) means ‘to kiss the hand and bow down as a mark of respect or reverence’.......it was a common practice in Bible times, but it wasn’t “worship”. It only means “worship” when this bowing is rendered to God, but never to a human. When it is done to a human it is correctly translated as “obeisance”.....Jesus was a human.
The angels didn’t “worship” him either, (Heb 1:6) as he was in human form, their respect for him was demonstrated, knowing that he was the “Son of God”.
You can see that the magi (from which we get the word “magic”, something forbidden in Israel) were pagan astrologers who had come to honor a new king, not to worship another god.
It was apparently their custom to offer gifts to royal children as a gesture of good will, and the fact that they unwittingly set in motion the murder of all those infants, shows that God would never have guided them to a wicked and jealous king.
If the star had been from God, it would have led them straight to Jesus. The account tells us that the star “came to a stop” right above the very house where he was. This was no ordinary star, nor was it sent from God. It was part of a plot to have Jesus killed before he could carry out the most important part of his human birth. That was what God told us to remember.....his sacrificial death...not his birth....and certainly not the way the world observes it.
Being grateful for the birth of God’s son, doesn’t mean that we need a party, as the world does, for everything. And we know how the world likes to party....and for all the wrong reasons and with often shameful conduct.
All the things that people love about Christmas can be observed at any time of the year....we can have family gatherings for no reason other than that we love them....we can give gifts too, but when we want to and can afford to in these difficult times. It’s not that JW’s cannot have gatherings to enjoy each other’s company, but we would never do so if the occasion included false worship, or activities that God condemns...like drunkenness and over indulgence of food....and especially not greed...which we see in children and adults at this time of year...often dictating what they “want” for Christmas.
Sadly domestic violence escalates at this time of year also because of how many fragmented families there are, and children are often caught in the crossfire. Alcohol too escalates the violence.
Is lying to children about “Santa” ever a good thing? Some children are crushed when they find out he’s not real. If Santa isn’t real, then maybe God isn’t either?
It doesn’t mean that we have to adopt pagan events and call them something else in order to justify ourselves to have a celebration.
All of Israel’s festivals were prescribed by God because they were not permitted to hold their own after what happened with the golden calf. What seems like a good idea to man may not be a good idea to God.
He told us not to fuse true religion with false religion (2 Cor 6:14-18)...and those who obey God are never sorry that they did.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
And that sums up what we see in Australia as well, only we are in the heat of summer.....it’s just a yearly excuse for a booze up. The “spirit” of Christmas for many, comes in a bottle...
The only ones who are really happy when it is over, are the merchants....calculating their profits.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I wanted to answer this question separately because I believe it is important to know how to keep things in perspective.
How do we, as a global body of united Christians, feel about the divisive issues that we see in the realm of Christendom....and especially about the birth of the Savior? We feel deep gratitude and marvel at the way God fulfilled all the prophesies that were embodied in the man we know as Jesus Christ.
He had to be born of a virgin, which made it difficult, because to be pregnant out of wedlock could have meant Mary being severely punished and ostracised in her community.....she had to be betrothed, so that marriage would legitimise the child she was carrying in the eyes of that community.
Joseph was shocked that Mary was pregnant before marriage, and assumed that she had been unfaithful, but out of respect for her, he was just going to “divorce her secretly”. Only when God told him that the child was holy, and to take Mary as his wife, did he feel secure in doing so. This shows the character of the man God chose to raise his son.
Seeing all the things that needed to come together in a most difficult way, for God’s Son to come into the world, shows the power of the Most High in accomplishing his will.
So in a nutshell, we appreciate the birth of Christ as a wonderful demonstration of how God accomplishes his will under otherwise impossible circumstances. That is what remains in our hearts day to day....it’s nothing we need a party for, to recall just one day a year, and in a way that dishonours the Son who sacrificed himself.....and the God who demands that our worship is to remain, uncontaminated.
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Santan clause or santa clause stuff
And ancient YULETIDE carols
and decking up those trees .
NOt to mention all the covetouness that has come out of this .
But namely that stuff .
You might wanna examine YULE . NOT GOOD sister .
Now to the trenches and strap all amour ON sister .
Let all the focus be ON CHRIST JESUS and not the materalistic nature of the beast.
Christmas is not about what one gets but rather about HONORING HE who saved us .
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Well said Amigo....and we don’t often agree...but on this, we do.
“separate yourselves and quit touching the unclean thing and I will take you in”.....(2 Cor 6:14-18)
That means if we do embrace those “unclean” things, we will not be acceptable to the God who demands pure, unadulterated worship.
Just a thought. There's the Jewish festival of Hannukah at this time of year so perhaps it became a time to remember the birth of Jesus as well. After all the first people to be born again were Jews.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Hannukah has nothing to do with the birth of Jesus.....according to one Jewish source...
“In the second century BCE, the Holy Land was ruled by the Seleucids (Syrian-Greeks), who tried to force the people of Israel to accept Greek culture and beliefs instead of mitzvah observance and belief in G‑d. Against all odds, a small band of faithful but poorly armed Jews, led by Judah the Maccabee, defeated one of the mightiest armies on earth, drove the Greeks from the land, reclaimed the Holy Temple in Jerusalem and rededicated it to the service of G‑d.
When they sought to light the Temple's Menorah (the seven-branched candelabrum), they found only a single cruse of olive oil that had escaped contamination by the Greeks. Miraculously, they lit the menorah and the one-day supply of oil lasted for eight days, until new oil could be prepared under conditions of ritual purity.
To commemorate and publicize these miracles, the sages instituted the festival of Chanukah.
Hannukah
As far as the Jewish Christians were concerned, all former festivals were done away with. They were not commanded to hold those Jewish festivals, nor were they told to observe the Sabbath.
Christianity operated under a new covenant and the former covenant was then replaced, but with only one mandated commemoration...the death of Jesus Christ.
Hi @Aunty Jane I didn't say it had. Just that it is festival that was celebrated by Jewish people long before Jesus was born and perhaps the Christians celebrated the Saviour's birth along side it, much as the death and resurrection of Jesus is celebrated at around the same time as Passover.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I know what you meant.....I was just sharing information.
There is a reason why the Passover was celebrated on the same day (the Jewish day began at sundown) that Jesus inaugurated the new covenant with his apostles at the Last Supper, and then after his arrest, and spending an awful night of interrogation, mocking and beatings, he was forced to carry his own instrument of torture to the place where he would breathe his last breath.
He was “the Passover Lamb”.....way back in Egypt, pictured by the blood on the door posts of every Israelite dwelling, so that “the angel of death” “passed over” that home, and the firstborn inside was saved by the lamb’s blood. John the Baptist called him “the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world”...
Since Jesus wasn’t born in the winter month of December, there is no correlation with Hannukah which was the anniversary of the dedication of the second Temple after a successful battle to reclaim their land and Temple. I’ve already mentioned the adoption of the pagan festival that became Christmas....and each must make up their own mind about that.
In Revelation 19:16 Jesus is given the full title “KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS” (Revelation 17:14 switches it: “Lord of lords and King of kings”). The title indicates someone who has the power to exercise absolute dominion over all His realm. In the case of the Lord Jesus, the realm is all of creation. In John’s vision, Jesus is returning to judge the world and establish His earthly kingdom, as He predicted in Mark 13:26.
So Jesus was not just a prophet. He is God incarnate.
So Jesus was not just a prophet. He is God incarnate.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Just adding another dimension here.....who in the Bible is spoken of as a “king” or a “lord”?
Do angels carry those titles in heaven, or are the angels subjects of their own God and King?
Since those titles carry an earthly connotation, who qualifies to hold them?
What “lords and kings” is Jesus superior to? The ones held up as such by the nations. He will defeat them all...and replace all that authority with the authority that he has been given to him by his God and Father,
So, the title Jesus holds as “King of kings and Lord of lords” means that all earthly authority has been given to the Son by his Father. This is confirmed by Jesus’ own words in Matt 28:19-20, his final instructions to his disciples before his departure.
Matt 28:18...
“And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.” (NKJV)
What an odd thing for God to say about himself....God is the one who “gave” ALL authority to Jesus Christ, which means that he didn’t have it before then. Doesn’t this prove that he wasn’t God incarnate?
I agree but I think we can add another layer to his Lordship. There are angelic hierarchies that he has also conquered:
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
We get a glimpse of a couple of them in Daniel as "Prince of Persia" and "Prince of Greece" So not only does he have Lordship over the earthly realm. He has also stripped Satan of the keys to hell and death.
There maybe other kings and other lords, but only Jesus is King of kings and Lord of Lords. And no prophet has ever been given those titles.
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
And what DID this GLORIOUS KING who has stripped satan ofe the keys of hell and of death
HAVE to say about those who BELEIVED NOT ON HIM .
And what did the apostles have to say .
DAMNATION awaits all who rejected JESUS THE CHRIST . TO deny HIM is a second death sentence .
And if one denies HIS WORDS , OH T HEY DO DENY HIM .
And HIS WORDS WILL BE THEIR JUDGE on the last day . Probably something this all inclusive ecumenical
in tefaith generation no longer beleives , BUT TRUE IT IS . JESUS pr eaching time is at an all time HIGH
to be be preached .
And you wont have to travel oveseas or to some remote island to preach JESUS and the gospel .
THE LOTT of even much of christendom Now needs to hear this and be taught and reminded about this gospel .
OH things have went from bad to worse and quickly too . BIBLE TIME is a must .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
And what DID this GLORIOUS KING who has stripped satan ofe the keys of hell and of death
HAVE to say about those who BELEIVED NOT ON HIM .
And what did the apostles have to say .
DAMNATION awaits all who rejected JESUS THE CHRIST . TO deny HIM is a second death sentence .
And if one denies HIS WORDS , OH T HEY DO DENY HIM .
And HIS WORDS WILL BE THEIR JUDGE on the last day . Probably something this all inclusive ecumenical
in tefaith generation no longer beleives , BUT TRUE IT IS . JESUS pr eaching time is at an all time HIGH
to be be preached .
And you wont have to travel oveseas or to some remote island to preach JESUS and the gospel .
THE LOTT of even much of christendom Now needs to hear this and be taught and reminded about this gospel .
OH things have went from bad to worse and quickly too . BIBLE TIME is a must .
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
No other prophet was the Son of God. Jesus was not just a prophet.
No other prophet was given the authority that God gave his Son. (Matt 28:18)
At Deut 18:18, God said to Moses....
“I will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him.”
When John wrote what Jesus said.....that ‘Moses wrote about him’, (John 5:46) what do you think he meant? How as Jesus a “prophet like Moses”?
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