Concerning Doctrines

[MonoBiblical]

Points: Close-handed Issues
1. We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)

Ye believe in 3 modes not 3 persons.

2. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a completely sinless human life and offered himself freely on the cross as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all, according to God’s plan revealed from the beginning. After three days, Jesus arose from the dead to demonstrate his power over death. He ascended to heaven to await his future return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. (Genesis 3:15, Isaiah 9:6-7, Matthew 1:22-25, John 1:1-5, John 14:10-30, Acts 1:9-11, Romans 1:3-4, I Corinthians 15:3-4, I Timothy 6:14-15, Titus 2:3, Hebrews 4:14-15)

Power over death? Are you saying suffering is divine?

3. We believe that the Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and Son (Jesus). He is present in this world as an intercessor to make men and women aware of their need for Jesus the Christ. The Holy Spirit resides in every believer from the moment of salvation. He empowers the Christian with strength for living, understanding the truth, witnessing to others, and in doing what is right. (John 14:16-17, John 16:7-13, Acts 1:8, I Corinthians 2:12, I Corinthians 3:16, II Corinthians 3:17, Galatians 5:16-25, Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 5:18-21)

Is it the power of the Holy Spirit the Father or something else? This is a very tricky question.

4. We believe that man and woman are made in the image of God (Imago Dei). Man and woman were originally designed by God to have fellowship with God, but man and woman became alienated because of disobedience. All human beings are born with a sinful nature and make the choice to sin against God. Humans are incapable of a right relationship with God through their own ability. (Genesis 1:26-27, Psalm 8:3-6, Isaiah 53:6, Isaiah 59:2, Romans 3:23, Colossians 1:21)

Perfect except for the belief where free choice is the sinful attribute. Augustine thought that a mankind's genital was the fallen nature or rather attribute. Do you agree?

5. We believe the Bible consists of God breathed scriptures, and these are necessarily truthful. They must be understood spiritually, so interpretations may vary. This gives rise to discussions such as those on this forum. The biblical canon is considered to be the following books of scripture. (composed of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, 1 Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, I Corinthians, II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I Thessalonians, II Thessalonians, I Timothy, II Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, I Peter, II Peter, I John, II John, III John, Jude and Revelation) is the inspired and infallible Word of God to all men and women. It was composed by human authors under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the primary source for Christian practices and doctrine. It is the authoritative standard against which all our knowledge of God and his purposes are to be tested. (Psalm 12:6, Psalm 119:105, Psalm 119:160, Proverbs 30:5, II Timothy 1:13, II Timothy 3:16-17, II Peter 1:20-21)

But men aren't truthful; and they have introduced errors. The DS scroll don't agree with the current Hebrew translation of the Tenak. And The Textus Recepti are full of typos.

6. We believe that salvation is a gift from God to humanity. Men and women can never make up for their own sin by self-improvement or good works. Men and women may only be saved from their sin and its penalty by trusting in Jesus Christ as God’s offer of forgiveness. Christians are justified by grace from God through Jesus alone. So that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have Eternal life. Eternal life begins the moment in which one believes and confesses Jesus Christ into his or her life by faith. (John 1:12, John 3:16, John 14:6, Romans 5:1, Romans 6:23, Galatians 3:26, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5)

Only, you get that kind of salvation when God wakes you from the dead. What kind of gift is it really.

7. We believe that men and women were created to exist forever. He either will become eternally separated from God by sin, or in union with God through forgiveness and salvation. We recognize that these realities are named as heaven and hell. Eternal separation from God occurs in hell. Eternal union with God occurs in heaven. (John 3:16, Romans 6:23, I John 2:25 I John 5:11-13, Revelation 20:15)

The only creature such evil enough to deserve an everlasting will be Satan and his fellow angels. Satan does not have free choice, nor do his evil fellows.

 

[ScottA]

Points: Close-handed Issues
1. We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)

Ye believe in 3 modes not 3 persons.

2. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a completely sinless human life and offered himself freely on the cross as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all, according to God’s plan revealed from the beginning. After three days, Jesus arose from the dead to demonstrate his power over death. He ascended to heaven to await his future return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. (Genesis 3:15, Isaiah 9:6-7, Matthew 1:22-25, John 1:1-5, John 14:10-30, Acts 1:9-11, Romans 1:3-4, I Corinthians 15:3-4, I Timothy 6:14-15, Titus 2:3, Hebrews 4:14-15)

Power over death? Are you saying suffering is divine?

3. We believe that the Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and Son (Jesus). He is present in this world as an intercessor to make men and women aware of their need for Jesus the Christ. The Holy Spirit resides in every believer from the moment of salvation. He empowers the Christian with strength for living, understanding the truth, witnessing to others, and in doing what is right. (John 14:16-17, John 16:7-13, Acts 1:8, I Corinthians 2:12, I Corinthians 3:16, II Corinthians 3:17, Galatians 5:16-25, Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 5:18-21)

Is it the power of the Holy Spirit the Father or something else? This is a very tricky question.

4. We believe that man and woman are made in the image of God (Imago Dei). Man and woman were originally designed by God to have fellowship with God, but man and woman became alienated because of disobedience. All human beings are born with a sinful nature and make the choice to sin against God. Humans are incapable of a right relationship with God through their own ability. (Genesis 1:26-27, Psalm 8:3-6, Isaiah 53:6, Isaiah 59:2, Romans 3:23, Colossians 1:21)

Perfect except for the belief where free choice is the sinful attribute. Augustine thought that a mankind's genital was the fallen nature or rather attribute. Do you agree?

5. We believe the Bible consists of God breathed scriptures, and these are necessarily truthful. They must be understood spiritually, so interpretations may vary. This gives rise to discussions such as those on this forum. The biblical canon is considered to be the following books of scripture. (composed of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, 1 Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, I Corinthians, II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I Thessalonians, II Thessalonians, I Timothy, II Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, I Peter, II Peter, I John, II John, III John, Jude and Revelation) is the inspired and infallible Word of God to all men and women. It was composed by human authors under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the primary source for Christian practices and doctrine. It is the authoritative standard against which all our knowledge of God and his purposes are to be tested. (Psalm 12:6, Psalm 119:105, Psalm 119:160, Proverbs 30:5, II Timothy 1:13, II Timothy 3:16-17, II Peter 1:20-21)

But men aren't truthful; and they have introduced errors. The DS scroll don't agree with the current Hebrew translation of the Tenak. And The Textus Recepti are full of typos.

6. We believe that salvation is a gift from God to humanity. Men and women can never make up for their own sin by self-improvement or good works. Men and women may only be saved from their sin and its penalty by trusting in Jesus Christ as God’s offer of forgiveness. Christians are justified by grace from God through Jesus alone. So that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have Eternal life. Eternal life begins the moment in which one believes and confesses Jesus Christ into his or her life by faith. (John 1:12, John 3:16, John 14:6, Romans 5:1, Romans 6:23, Galatians 3:26, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5)

Only, you get that kind of salvation when God wakes you from the dead. What kind of gift is it really.

7. We believe that men and women were created to exist forever. He either will become eternally separated from God by sin, or in union with God through forgiveness and salvation. We recognize that these realities are named as heaven and hell. Eternal separation from God occurs in hell. Eternal union with God occurs in heaven. (John 3:16, Romans 6:23, I John 2:25 I John 5:11-13, Revelation 20:15)

The only creature such evil enough to deserve an everlasting will be Satan and his fellow angels. Satan does not have free choice, nor do his evil fellows.

Whose list is that ("we")?

Are those your observations and questions in italics?

 

[MonoBiblical]

Whose list is that ("we")?

It belongs to the discussion forum.

Are those your observations and questions in italics?

Yes, and both.

 

[ScottA]

It belongs to the discussion forum.

You mean it's Christianity Board's list?

 

[MonoBiblical]

You mean it's Christianity Board's list?

They don't think the doctrine of the trinity can be scholarly debated and rebutted. You may feel the same way. Where should I or we start?

 

[ScottA]

They don't think the doctrine of the trinity can be scholarly debated and rebutted. You may feel the same way. Where should I or we start?

I don't know according to forum rules, perhaps one of the mods would like to answer that. But since even non-Christian topics can be debated, I should think we could discuss almost anything.

I don't want to start picking apart Forum Rules, and I don't have a problem with the Trinity doctrine any more than I do referring to myself as Me, Myself, and I. But just so you know, I don't agree with everything on that list either. Namely, "He ascended to heaven to await his future return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords" (#2). God is timeless and therefore doesn't "await" anything. But that is just a poor choice of words. It certainly could leave one to wrongly believe in the truth about God, but I don't feel lead to take on Christianity Board. On the contrary, I applaud Christianity Board for much of what they do and allow for. But even they have been effected by the foretold false teachings...as victims. Therefore, I see them as fellows in Christ, perhaps not perfect, but similar to many who are still being conformed to His likeness.

Meanwhile, I speak the truth here all the time regarding when Christ began to "soon" return since Pentecost, as He said, and it is written, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me." Of which many here, and perhaps even all of the Mods, will attest that Christ first went to the Father, and since then is even now, "in me." which can only biblically be defined as His "return" "in the glory of the Father."

 

[MonoBiblical]

You mean it's Christianity Board's list?

ee yah!

 

[MonoBiblical]

"He ascended to heaven to await his future return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords" (#2)

The Highest Lord and Highest King is YHWH. Not much to debate there.

 

[ScottA]

The Highest Lord and Highest King is YHWH. Not much to debate there.

My point was that a timeless, eternal God doesn't "await" anything. It's not "future" to or with God, but the same yesterday, today, and forever.

 

[lforrest]

I don't know according to forum rules, perhaps one of the mods would like to answer that. But since even non-Christian topics can be debated, I should think we could discuss almost anything.

I don't want to start picking apart Forum Rules, and I don't have a problem with the Trinity doctrine any more than I do referring to myself as Me, Myself, and I. But just so you know, I don't agree with everything on that list either. Namely, "He ascended to heaven to await his future return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords" (#2). God is timeless and therefore doesn't "await" anything. But that is just a poor choice of words. It certainly could leave one to wrongly believe in the truth about God, but I don't feel lead to take on Christianity Board. On the contrary, I applaud Christianity Board for much of what they do and allow for. But even they have been effected by the foretold false teachings...as victims. Therefore, I see them as fellows in Christ, perhaps not perfect, but similar to many who are still being conformed to His likeness.

Meanwhile, I speak the truth here all the time regarding when Christ began to "soon" return since Pentecost, as He said, and it is written, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me." Of which many here, and perhaps even all of the Mods, will attest that Christ first went to the Father, and since then is even now, "in me." which can only biblically be defined as His "return" "in the glory of the Father."

It's not that the Trinity doctrine is closed for discussion. We have standards now for those professing to be Christian on this forum. And we put those in the statement of faith. So the details can be discussed, but not from a position of denial.

 

[lforrest]

I don't want to start picking apart Forum Rules, and I don't have a problem with the Trinity doctrine any more than I do referring to myself as Me, Myself, and I. But just so you know, I don't agree with everything on that list either. Namely, "He ascended to heaven to await his future return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords" (#2). God is timeless and therefore doesn't "await" anything. But that is just a poor choice of words. It certainly could leave one to wrongly believe in the truth about God, but I don't feel lead to take on Christianity Board.

Perhaps it would be more precise to state that we await his return. As that is made evident in the scriptures, we and the whole world await that day.

It may not be entirely wrong to state that God can await something, even if we disregard Jesus' perspective from the incarnation. But it would require muddying the assumed use of"waiting" to refer to conditions rather than time.

Like how the Spirit could not come until the Lord died.

Or how until the fullness of the gentiles have come in.

But granted these are all things that concerned the happenings on earth.

 

[ScottA]

Perhaps it would be more precise to state that we await his return. As that is made evident in the scriptures, we and the whole world await that day.

It may not be entirely wrong to state that God can await something, even if we disregard Jesus' perspective from the incarnation. But it would require muddying the assumed use of"waiting" to refer to conditions rather than time.

Like how the Spirit could not come until the Lord died.

Or how until the fullness of the gentiles have come in.

But granted these are all things that concerned the happenings on earth.

I have presented this subject of God/Jesus "awaiting" or us "waiting" upon Jesus, on the forum differently than most believe, a lot. But most, if not all, seem to be stuck in the most common doctrine...even against what is written. I'll be brief:

• By definition, Jesus "coming in the glory of His Father" (Matthew 16:27, Mark 8:38, Luke 9:26) means, coming in the Spirit.
• Which Jesus described, saying "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him..." (Revelation 3:20), being by definition, also in the Spirit.
• And since Jesus first said, "I leave the world and go to the Father" (John 16:28) and then went to the Father--anyone who confesses, saying I have "Christ in me"--either does not have Christ in them, or is denying that anyone has ever actually been "born again" having Christ in them, or that Jesus never went to the Father--and denies His returning to them personally; or in light of the above passages does not believe a gospel based on "every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:4).
• All of which defines the "waiting" to only include those whom Christ has not yet "come in to", and are not born again of the Spirit.

 

[newnature]

They don't think the doctrine of the trinity can be scholarly debated and rebutted. You may feel the same way. Where should I or we start?

Start with this.

 

[lforrest]

And since Jesus first said, "I leave the world and go to the Father" (John 16:28) and then went to the Father--anyone who confesses, saying I have "Christ in me"--either does not have Christ in them, or is denying that anyone has ever actually been "born again" having Christ in them, or that Jesus never went to the Father--and denies His returning to them personally; or in light of the above passages does not believe a gospel based on "every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:4).

I believe Christ is present within the deepest part of our soul. The soul being multiple layers, like the temple or tabernacle. Within what is functionally the Holy of Holies is an intimate connection with the Father and his Son Jesus through the Holy Spirit. And due to God's supremacy over all things, everything under Christ, they are likewise spiritually accessible. So contrary to common sense where things nested within other things are relegated to a decreasing order of importance and complexity, God himself being inside inverts that expectation.

I also believe Christ will return in the same way he left, visibly and with a spiritual body. The Holy Spirit that lives within us is a different kind of manifestation of Christ. And there may even be a third kind with personal appearances of Christ.

 

[ScottA]

I believe Christ is present within the deepest part of our soul. The soul being multiple layers, like the temple or tabernacle. Within what is functionally the Holy of Holies is an intimate connection with the Father and his Son Jesus through the Holy Spirit. And due to God's supremacy over all things, everything under Christ, they are likewise spiritually accessible. So contrary to common sense where things nested within other things are relegated to a decreasing order of importance and complexity, God himself being inside inverts that expectation.

I also believe Christ will return in the same way he left, visibly and with a spiritual body. The Holy Spirit that lives within us is a different kind of manifestation of Christ. And there may even be a third kind with personal appearances of Christ.

Yes, that is all according to the popular and most common doctrine...and we don't need to debate it. But that goes against what the Bibles says about the new creation being just that--new, and what is born again being a different body, as in, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

And you, like so many, simply assume the "like manner" of Jesus returning in the same way, refers to the flesh rather than the Spirit. While, God and anyone having "the renewing of your mind" to think and see things from God's perspective, and our perspective if and when we are One with Him in Christ...would not default to think in terms of the flesh and this world, but understand that an angel of the Lord would have been speaking from God's perspective, as that is the best description of entering the kingdom and being One with God...who is spirit. Which is a leap--but that's why we have the word rapture--because that is the nature of the experience. Which does not mean the born again go all warp speed when Jesus comes in to them, because, yes, we're still in this world. But Jesus crossed the void of rapture in going to the Father--and we with Him...just as we were also crucified with Him...even before the foundation of the world. But that warp speed rapture will come, but only when we too ascend...which is not His return in "like manner."

In other words, the popular and common doctrine is just a way of rationalizing not visibly seeing Jesus, against what Jesus said about "everyone born of the spirit" and Him being "firstfruits if the Spirit", as not being visible; and also against the kingdom of God coming, "not by observation."