Conjecture

[Episkopos]

To the one living in pride.
I’ve done nothing to be proud of.

And yet pride is the substance that the flesh wishes for...the evidence of achievements yet unseen. So then pride is the hope of the flesh.

 

[marks]

Your 'conjecture' is entirely consistent with the doctrine of purgatory.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

Peace!

Hi Philip James,

Quoting from your link . . .

All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

I don't believe any who die in God's grace and friendship can be imperfectly purified, as that comes in our new birth.

What is purifed by the fire is our works. What we've done, those things that are good remain, but those that are not are removed. But we ourselves are holy and righteous in Christ at rebirth.

Much love!

 

[Stranger]

Even the devil acknowledges that the bible is the written words from God. Or else he would not have used it in order to tempt Jesus.

But that very fact you are somehow seeking to escape. You are trying to make your own points and opinions to be superior to any other consideration. I explained the deeper truth...or tried to...of the bible and how it may be easily misused by we humans who tend to try understanding things without the help of God.

God is against our interpretations...and therefore entraps those who try doing so.

A honest person would admit he is trapped.

Indeed he does. Just as Jesus acknowledged the Bible as the Word of God.

No, I am disagreeing with your assumption that one must not be spiritual or of any spiritual maturity who sees the Bible as the written Word of God. Because I see the Bible as the written Word of God does not mean I don't recognize the importance of the Spirit of God in our understanding of the Bible, in our understanding of God and Christ.

Yes the Bible is misused all the time. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes not. Either way, it remains the written Word of God.

If a believer in Christ is seeking to study the Bible to learn about God and Christ, it is the Word of God. If an atheist is seeking to study it to try and trip up Christians or disprove the Bible, it is still the written Word of God.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Precedence shows that it happens. Discernment sees when it is so.

What 'precedence'? Whose 'discernment'?

Stranger

 

[marks]

This might be true for an unbeliever, but since Christ bore the wrath which was due to us, Christians do not face God as a consuming fire.

Hi Enoch,

To be clear, this is not wrath, it's simply a way I look at the coming day when Christ is fully formed in me, when the day dawns, and the morning star rises in my heart, when I awake in His likeness, when I become like Him, seeing Him, as He actually is.

Didn't mean to ignite a firestorm!

Much love!

Edited . . . I look back on these sometimes, and wonder, how can anyone decipher some of what I write??

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What 'precedence'? Whose 'discernment'?

Stranger

Precedence: the Pharisees, for one.
Whose discernment: indeed!

 

[Waiting on him]

Luke 12:49 KJV
[49] I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?


Tecarta BibleIt’s burning the wood, hay, and stubble is being consumed.

 

[Waiting on him]

Jesus baptizes in fire.

 

[amadeus]

I guess this hasn’t been fully burned away yet. I need more wood.

Hmmm!

 

[Nancy]

I guess this hasn’t been fully burned away yet. I need more wood.

 

[bbyrd009]

well, you seem more introverted? And to that i can say that a sublimated ego is not an overcome ego, this is a thing much more prevalent in women, seems like? And yet women are more likely to be content, too, or at least were. So imo if one's ego is sublimated, has been locked up in a closet, one might even say they are content, might even believe it, but they will exhibit health issues most likely?

If you are searching for something that will make you happy, but you arent happy searching, then you will not be happy finding either, imo. So when i am not content i ask myself what i lack, and i dont shy away from or prettyup the answer, i go for the ugliest answer possible even, i am lacking that feeling right after hitting a crack pipe, "happiness isnt good enough for me, i demand euphoria!" lol.

this is when i know i am overdue for 72 hours of nothing btw.

 

[marks]

...one of the gifts the Holy Spirit gives to some men is the ability to know whether a message is from God or is from another Spirit.

There is a gift of the discerning of spirits, there is a word of wisdom, these can guide us.

And in another place, he said he was headed for Some certain place and that he didn't exactly what would happen, but the Holy Spirit kept telling him there would be prison and beatings for him.

When Paul was returning to Jerusalem, God sent prophecies to him over and over warning him not to go. But interestingly, God did not apparently give to Paul a convincing internal witness, and when he did go to Jerusalem in spite of these warning, well, for the next two years, there is nothing written of any fruitfulness to him ministry, only when he left off trying to go to Jerusalem, and went on to Rome.

Other places, the Holy Spirit told them to send 2 men to work for God and either told men to go to a certain place , or, conversely, prevented them from going to a place.

This happened a lot. And this is how God continues to lead, at least in my experience. He gives clear personal instructions, sometimes.

But I guess my main point is that there is a gift given to some men by which they can tell if a message is from God or from another spirit.

So it is not good or right to fail to take notice of this and insist that no man can ever know if another man is speaking by the Spirit.

I don't insist that, myself, in fact, I'm comletely convinced that God intends both to communicate with us, and that we are to have complete confidence in His ability to make us certain we are hearing from Him.

The debate seems to begin on how it is we should know. If we have an internal witness of the Holy Spirit, then we know. But what do we do when we seem to Amen! inside, but there is something different written in the Bible? Which do we follow? Or do we find a way to understand the words of Scripture in a way more agreeable to our understanding?

Many will seek after teachers who will support their views, and Christianity stratifies according to doctrinal distinctions. This should not be.

But someone who doesn't have the gift to know can search scripture to see if a man who preaches fear of God and humility is speaking unscriptural nonsense. Now some men give Epi a very hard time because they do not like to hear that anyone who puts their hand to the plow and turns back is not fit for the kingdom of heaven. They do not like to hear that God has, and can, change His mind. They do not like to Hear that they should fear they could be cut off or disqualified. They don't even like to hear that they are in a race and must run so as to win. And because they don't want to hear these scriptural things, they say he is dangerous and should not be listened to.

I think the first thing to do is to know the Scripture so we can know the true and the untrue. Even beyond searching the Scriptures to see, but to know the Scriptures so we can keep from being deceived.

"Hand to the plow and turns back", "Cut off" and "disqualified", "race to win", each of these begin new discussions, but it seems to me there is a lot greater distinction to episkopos' doctrine than that he's not OSAS. Even that term can't mean the same to him as it does to maybe most of the others on this forum. I don't say that to disparage, only to inform.

Again, subject to his correction to me if what he thinks is actually different.

It seems to me that where I see a family of God, he sees a range of castes and distances near to and far from God, so that even the saved are gnashing their teeth in outer darkness.

Mostly what I like to do is to engage with people to become more fully informed on the distinctives of their views, while comparing with Scripture. To me, agreement with Scripture is above my experience.

Scripture will show if this message is true that the safest path is to fear God, who can cut off and graft in, and to walk humbly.

Yes it will.

Peter tells us to spend the days of our sojourning in fear. We walk in humility because we live in reality, God's reality. But we also know God's love as our Father, the care of our Faithful Creator, knowing that nothing - nothing - not any created thing - can separate us from the Love of God in Christ Jesus.

While he appears to see us near and far, I see us all intimate with God. In varying degrees now, due to the nature of our own flesh, but then, fully.

Much love!

 

[marks]

And in fact, it is good news that a man doesn't have to claim things for himself and that all He has to do is fear God and walk humbly and leave all other decisions to God. Its great peace and relief.

Do you think epi's message is for a man who does that, or is his message for men who don't do that? He speaks warnings. Who are his warnings for?

This whole "claiming things for himself", what does that mean? Only whatever the speaker wants, who likewise makes claims, right?

We don't have to claim things for ourselves? No, none of us need to do that.

His claim is that he's been "looked over" by God, and is now certified to "look over" us, to give us Visitation. OK. Should he be claiming these things for himself? What is his answer? He doesn't give them to me. But I don't blame him.

So . . . what is the claim we are to avoid making? That our works are approved? That will be revealed on that day. That we are the children of God? This God testifies to us who are His children. And our love for others is the outward demonstration.

Of course we walk in humility and fear, we are children of our Heavenly Father, Who is faithful, and committed to the surety of our inheritance, to our appearing with Him in glory, to our sanctification.

Do you fear His rejection? I do not. He has promised me, He will never leave me, nor forsake me. And I receive that promise from my Heavenly Father. And He doesn't ever leave me. Not for a moment.

Yes, it is complete peace and relief in letting God be in charge of everything. Life becomes more like just moving from one moment to another, finding goodness, finding opportunity to share love with others, to receive love from others, to share and receive love with God my Creator.

But it seems this isn't enough, as you've seen how @Episkopos has written to me. And I don't even need mention more than his repeated assertions that my understandings are "carnal". So are his warnings for me? There's a question! But what he teaches I find so different from what I read in the Bible. So we're back to, normally I'd like to discuss these things, but in this case the fellow doesn't want to.

But even more than that, his warnings are towards that which I do not see in Scripture, children of God cast into outer darkness? Let's talk about that. Rhetorical, actually.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Are his warnings for men who always seek to take the lowest seat as the woman who said, even the dogs get scraps from the masters table? Or are his warnings for men who insist on taking the highest seat and claiming everything good is theirs despite this?

What does it mean to you to "take the lowest seat"?

I know it speaks of not seeking to honor yourself over others. Is there more than that to you?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hate to do it but I will have to place you on ignore, marks. No fruitfulness will come from further discussion at this time.

 

[marks]

So look carefully into this. If epi teaches fear of God and always taking the lowest seat and being humble and leaving judgement to God, even the judgement of himself as to how well he has used what he has been entrusted with, And men argue with him over this, who is being proud and resisting the Holy Spirit? Is it epi? Or is it those who argue with his message?

There's more to it than that.

 

[marks]

Are you looking for epi's approval now? You have resisted everything he has said, across multiple threads. What agreement do you want?

For approval, no, not man's approval, no. We've had precious little actual discussion, most of what he's actually written to me is just pejorative, but without meaningful content.

I compare his posts with Scripture, and give my response.

Overall, I desire unity in both faith and knowledge among all who call upon the Name of Jesus.

Much love!

 

[marks]

As such our judgment would be more favourable.

Hi Episkopos,

What does this judgment mean exactly to you? In simple terms?

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

So yeah...are you are asking for overseerer of flesh, as in office over men because in Spirit there is already one?

I'm not sure exactly what your point is (since your post is not directly connected to what you quoted) but the Bible is very clear that the elders were also overseers, hence the term episkopos or bishop.

Which means that you should not be dismissing human overseers even though Christ is indeed the Shepherd and Bishop of our souls (1 Peter2:25). And there is no need to talk about "overseer of the flesh", since it is essentially meaningless. If you mean "human" say "human".

At the same time the poster who has the user name *episkopos* is far from being any kind of overseer, since he has invented his own theology. It is called *Conjectural Theology*.

 

[Enoch111]

You have resisted everything he has said, across multiple threads.

And you have bought his false theology hook, line, and sinker. So who is better off?