Hey Jiggyfly. I have thoughts that provoke people to!!!!! My statements were just a valid.........!!!!! Something like that!!!! <_<
Fivesense:
Obedience does not require a knowledge of good and evil, but trust. If I feel it is forced compliance, by threat of consequence, then ...............................
I sure did not expect something as THOUGHT PROVOKING as that..................................Certainly a very valid point.
I do not enjoy bringing this to your attention, and I pray you have understanding, but substituting "calamity" for evil does not change the sense of the morality issue resultant in eating the forbidden fruit. It did not give them a knowledge of calamity, it gave them an awareness of evil.
Well, that is what the Hebrew does say. Your right, they did not know what starving was, or being sick was.
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou
eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
So, what your saying is that even though the bible says Adam was not deceived, and God did tell Adam that he would die, there was no "REAL" concept of consequences. It was just out of obedience. Much like you tell a child not to touch the stove, but yet each generation must find out on their own "Burn included" that the stove is actually harmful.
OK....................................... My Pastor just taught us about judging. When we judge someone we do so without consideration of what light God has revealed to them from his Word. In effect, we judge ourselves in a sense because we also bring condemnation on ourselves for those things we allow and do that we don't have light on yet.
For example I know a girl that has committed fornication with several guys. Just go and sleep with them. She knew adultery was not a good thing, but when I talked to her she said God revealed that her issue was with her relationship with her father as a child, and somehow he was always saying that she was going to fail, which in turn latter caused her to somehow end up in bed with other men.
I was thinking that was pretty lame, because fornication is just what it is. Why did God "Supposedly/ or he could have really" need to reveal all that to her to say that sleeping around is not a good thing? I knew better than to press the issue and just kept quit.
Adam did not have full truth and light in what he did???????????????????????????
Famine and starvation? It was unknown. Disease and sickness? They were totally healthy. Their was no adoration, no praise, no thankfulness and no reciprocated love in return to the Unloved God Who place them in the flawless environment they were in.
I don't think that Garden was in a flawless environment. I fully believe that Adam knew that their were issues, and knew how to do his job in the Garden. He did have things to do, and I am not sure how long he spent with God and getting instructions. It would appear that Adam had a good relationship with God.
Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Hebrew:
To keep means to guard, protect, a doorman, keep watch. It was more than just pick fruit and enjoy yourself. It was to guard it against something. Not all was well around the Garden, but Adam was given charge to protect that Garden. In my understanding, I fully believe that Adam knew with full understanding what he was up against, and knew there was adversity outside that Garden. Another Hebrew word would have been used if that was not the case.
To Keep:
BDB:
1a1) to keep, have charge of
1a2) to keep, guard, keep watch and ward, protect, save life
1a2a) watch, watchman (participle)
1a3) to watch for, wait for
1a4) to watch, observe
1a5) to keep, retain, treasure up (in memory)
1a6) to keep (within bounds), restrain
Strongs:
A primitive root; properly to hedge about (as with thorns), that is, guard; generally to protect, attend to, etc.: - beware, be circumspect, take heed (to self), keep (-er, self), mark, look narrowly, observe, preserve, regard, reserve, save (self), sure, (that lay) wait (for), watch (-man).
I won't argue about Adam knowing after eating the fruit that he found himself naked, and hid himself. I still believe though that Adam knew what he was doing, and that what he was doing was wrong. We don't have to experience Evil to know something is Evil. I also believe he knew who Satan was, as he had to know what he was gaurding against in the Garden. Adam also understood the consequences of eating that fruit.
I have not robbed any banks or steal, because i know that robbing a bank will bring consequences. I don't fully understand what may happen to me, but I know it won't be good.
In Law, we prove someone fit to stand trial by their actions. Did they attempt to cover evidence? If they did then they knew what they did was wrong, though they may be somewhat nuts. Adam did hide after his disobedience, I believe that fruit did do something to Adam, but I also believe he hid because he already knew what God told him about protecting that Garden, and eating that fruit. (
He hid not because of what the fruit imparted to him, He hid because he knew what God said before he ate the fruit. Remember the bible said that Adam was not confused.)
Just like robbing a bank, and not knowing exactly what would happen in the amount of prison time, or exact proceedings against you, just like Adam, he knew that no good would come from his disobedience, and did not fully comprehend what the outcome may be. He, like someone that sleeps with someone underage find that out after the crime is committed, but still knew not to commit that crime.
Pretty interesting
Fivesense!!!! you make a good case. This is a little more deeper though than just looking at Genesis. Our belief system here is based on who we think God is, and what our understanding of God's character and nature is. Our understanding of the Garden is rooted in who we believe God is. To sort that out, it would take many more pages of thread.
Thank you!!! and be blessed.
Jesus Is Lord.