Creationism in science class rooms

[snr5557]

Dig deep into evolutionary theory and the foundation amounts to .... the whole universe , including earth and all life on earth , began with nothing , and then became everything by random chance over billions of years.

Anyone here believe that ?

I do. I find chemical and biological evolution really interesting. I remember in my intro to biology class being dissapointed that we didn't get to learn more about it. It's on my list to research further. Oh, and I think that part of what you're forgetting to mention with your statement is the Big Bang. But that I'm pretty sure has more to do with physics.

 

[DaDad]

many people believe that evolution is part of the history of Earth so it makes sense that we teach it.

I really don't care what people believe. I only accept that which is reasonably proven.

You cannot scientifically test miracles or God, so they are not in a science classroom. Schools are not saying you can't believe in these things, they only wish to teach what has been tested repeatedly and shown to be the most accurate.

Can you scientifically test evolution? If so, then please upgrade it from a "Theory" to a "Law".


Students, for your Final grade, please mate two tadpoles and arrive at a new species.



With Best Regards,
DaDad

 

[snr5557]

I really don't care what people believe. I only accept that which is reasonably proven.




Can you scientifically test evolution? If so, then please upgrade it from a "Theory" to a "Law".


Students, for your Final grade, please mate two tadpoles and arrive at a new species.



With Best Regards,
DaDad

But we can observe what it has done. I should have included that as well. Sorry, a little distracted today, it has been pretty great :)

But, people have been able to observe evolution. It's really cool! Here's an article about how fast bacteria can evolve. This is one thing that I love about going on this site, in my effort to show other people how amazing science is and that God and science can coexist, I end up learning even more about science.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/03/070305-evolution-germs.html

Students, for your Final grade, please mate two tadpoles and arrive at a new species.


Just so you know, evolution doesn't happen that fast, it takes generations upon generations to do so.

 

[River Jordan]

Dig deep into evolutionary theory and the foundation amounts to .... the whole universe , including earth and all life on earth , began with nothing , and then became everything by random chance over billions of years.

No it doesn't. The only way you could say that would be to say that since evolution is about the behavior of living things, then it must be about the origin of those living things, and therefore it must also be about the origin of the material for what made up those first living things, and therefore it must also be about the origin of the universe in which that material came to be.

But by the same argument, chemistry is "the whole universe , including earth and all life on earth , began with nothing , and then became everything by random chance over billions of years", yet I don't see creationists arguing against chemistry on the same grounds.

Evolution describes how populations of living organisms change over time. That's it. If you're unable to address it on those terms, maybe you should examine your own position first.

Can you scientifically test evolution? If so, then please upgrade it from a "Theory" to a "Law".

Of course you can test it. But you seem to be confused as to what "theory" means in science. Theories don't become laws. Theories are well-established explanatory frameworks that have withstood testing. No amount of successful testing will make a theory into law.

Students, for your Final grade, please mate two tadpoles and arrive at a new species.

The evolution of new species is a repeatedly observed fact.

 

[aspen]

DaDad - your mischaracterization of the role of theories in science reveals your ignorance of basic scientific principles. I also doubt your assertion that you only believe what is 'reasonably proven' - whatever that means.....I think you believe what you have been told about Christianity and reject everything that does not feel to you like Christianity.

I am not a scientist either, but I recognize that I would have to know more about physical science than a scientist in order to critique the foundational principles of science.

Just because I cannot explain why a negative integer multiplied by a negative integer results in a positive integer doesn't mean I declare multiplication to be stupid and mathematicians to be brainwashed or evil.

Sorry, but I think it is the height of arrogance to dismiss professions and professionals based on our uneducated opinions of what makes them relevant. Especially, when the uneducated person uses the professions willingness to leave room for further discovery against it.....'that doctor is an idiot - he gave my mom 12 months to live and she live 5 years!' Lord, have mercy.....

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

The evolution of new species is a repeatedly observed fact.

Show me one please ... just one.

 

[DaDad]

Just so you know, evolution doesn't happen that fast, it takes generations upon generations to do so.

I disagree. Clearly it can happen in a SINGLE GENERATION. -- That's why abortionists insist that the unborn is not a child. It could be any myriad of organic substance, but certainly NOT a child. :wacko:

I think it is the height of arrogance to dismiss professions and professionals based on our uneducated opinions of what makes them relevant. ...

You're right. How stupid of me to think that it DIDN'T take 50M years of erosion to create the Grand Canyon.


But I will say this, -- it cuts all-directions. I don't believe any liar, whether on evolution; the Grand Canyon; the Kennedy Assassination; or even some VERY POPULAR Scriptural myths, typical of how the walls of Jericho fell because of a "miracle". (Please note that miracles DO occur, but this was a military accomplishment.)




With Best Regards,
DaDad

 

[River Jordan]

Show me one please ... just one.

Sure.

http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/abstract/91/7/1022

In this example, when two species of goatsbeard overlapped, they produced a hybrid that is unable to breed with either of its parents, but is fully capable of breeding on its own. Plus, the newly evolved species is more robust than either parent species.

If you'd like, I have a lot of other examples from lots of different taxa (insects, birds, reptiles, fish....)

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Sure.

http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/abstract/91/7/1022

In this example, when two species of goatsbeard overlapped, they produced a hybrid that is unable to breed with either of its parents, but is fully capable of breeding on its own. Plus, the newly evolved species is more robust than either parent species.

If you'd like, I have a lot of other examples from lots of different taxa (insects, birds, reptiles, fish....)

There are over a hundred variations of the goatsbeard plant and now there is one more new one ..... so what ?? ... it is still within the goatsbeard family ..... just like all the varieties of wheat .... we can cross breed , select and even genetically modify any of them .... but they are still wheat plants.

Come back when the goatsbeard plant becomes a wheat plant in your lab .... then you have something

It cannot be done and you know it .... and if you try to imply that the magic waiting period of millions of years is required .... you have just lost your claim of being able to demonstrating it .

 

[snr5557]

There are over a hundred variations of the goatsbeard plant and now there is one more new one ..... so what ?? ... it is still within the goatsbeard family ..... just like all the varieties of wheat .... we can cross breed , select and even genetically modify any of them .... but they are still wheat plants.

Come back when the goatsbeard plant becomes a wheat plant in your lab .... then you have something

It cannot be done and you know it .... and if you try to imply that the magic waiting period of millions of years is required .... you have just lost your claim of being able to demonstrating it .

We don't actually use magic in science, since it doesn't exist.

 

[Quantrill]

It's always seemed pretty simple to me....

Creationism isn't taught in science classes because it's not science, and the vast majority of the scientific community agrees.

Evolution is taught in science classes because it is science, and the vast majority of the scientific community agrees that it is valid.

Therefore, it seems intuitive what we do and don't teach in science classes. If creationists want to change that, then they need to convince the scientific community that creationism is scientifically valid and evolution isn't. If they can't do that, then there's no reason to change.

Creationism isn't taught because it goes against all evolutionary theories of science.

Evloution is taught because Godless scientists and a Godless country want to have an answer for the origins of earth and man and the universe outside of God. So they think they have it in 'evolution'.

Creationists views are based on truth, and absolute knowledge. Not the theories and incomplete, and ever changing knowledge science and scientists offer.

Quantrill

 

[snr5557]

Creationism isn't taught because it goes against all evolutionary theories of science.

That's not entirely true. If Creationists could provide credible scientific proof that can be tested and retested by others, scientists would include Creationism into science classrooms because it would be science. But since Creationists haven't, science classrooms cannot allow it.


Evloution is taught because Godless scientists and a Godless country want to have an answer for the origins of earth and man and the universe outside of God. So they think they have it in 'evolution'.

That's not true either. In fact, Charles Darwin himself was a Christian, and he certainly had not sought out to disprove God. He actually didn't publish his book until years later because he feared what would happen once it was published.


Creationists views are based on truth, and absolute knowledge. Not the theories and incomplete, and ever changing knowledge science and scientists offer.

I have noticed that on this site that people don't like how science changes. I personally love how fluid science is, so can you explain why you dislike it so much?


Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Creationism isn't taught because it goes against all evolutionary theories of science.

That's not entirely true. If Creationists could provide credible scientific proof that can be tested and retested by others, scientists would include Creationism into science classrooms because it would be science. But since Creationists haven't, science classrooms cannot allow it.


Evloution is taught because Godless scientists and a Godless country want to have an answer for the origins of earth and man and the universe outside of God. So they think they have it in 'evolution'.

That's not true either. In fact, Charles Darwin himself was a Christian, and he certainly had not sought out to disprove God. He actually didn't publish his book until years later because he feared what would happen once it was published.


Creationists views are based on truth, and absolute knowledge. Not the theories and incomplete, and ever changing knowledge science and scientists offer.

I have noticed that on this site that people don't like how science changes. I personally love how fluid science is, so can you explain why you dislike it so much?


Quantrill

Science class rooms allow the lie of evolution to be taught. They conjur up theories, wave their arms, and presto, something emerges which they identify as life from which all living things came from. And they expect others to believe this Hocus Pocus.

Prove Charles Darwin was a Christian.

Of course you love how science is always wrong. Because science is always wrong. You have to eat crow one way or another. May as well pretend to like it.

Quantrill

 

[snr5557]

Science class rooms allow the lie of evolution to be taught. They conjur up theories, wave their arms, and presto, something emerges which they identify as life from which all living things came from. And they expect others to believe this Hocus Pocus.

Actually, scientists don't believe in magic, just fyi.
And they don't just dream things like this up overnight, evolutionists spend a lot of their time dedicating their life to the study of evolution.


Prove Charles Darwin was a Christian.

He originally was becoming a priest, and back in his time priests had to study nature. They believed that studying the world around them was a way of understanding the beauty of what God had bestowed on us. When he went to the Galapagos Island and observed what he originally thought were very different birds, turned out to all be finches. And, well you know the story :) It's a favorite of mine.


Of course you love how science is always wrong. Because science is always wrong. You have to eat crow one way or another. May as well pretend to like it.

How did I say why I love science is wrong? if you're saying how I'm aware that things do change as we become more advanced in our thinking and technology than yes. But I severely disagree in how science is always wrong. Was the polio vaccine wrong? Is how a car works wrong? Is gravity wrong? Are you saying that the Sun revolves around the Earth? I don't think you realized what you just said.


Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Science class rooms allow the lie of evolution to be taught. They conjur up theories, wave their arms, and presto, something emerges which they identify as life from which all living things came from. And they expect others to believe this Hocus Pocus.

Actually, scientists don't believe in magic, just fyi.
And they don't just dream things like this up overnight, evolutionists spend a lot of their time dedicating their life to the study of evolution.


Prove Charles Darwin was a Christian.

He originally was becoming a priest, and back in his time priests had to study nature. They believed that studying the world around them was a way of understanding the beauty of what God had bestowed on us. When he went to the Galapagos Island and observed what he originally thought were very different birds, turned out to all be finches. And, well you know the story :) It's a favorite of mine.


Of course you love how science is always wrong. Because science is always wrong. You have to eat crow one way or another. May as well pretend to like it.

How did I say why I love science is wrong? if you're saying how I'm aware that things do change as we become more advanced in our thinking and technology than yes. But I severely disagree in how science is always wrong. Was the polio vaccine wrong? Is how a car works wrong? Is gravity wrong? Are you saying that the Sun revolves around the Earth? I don't think you realized what you just said.


Quantrill

Evolution may as well be magic. Just because they spend a lot of time at it doesn't mean it isn't a lie. It is.

Well, I said prove Darwin was a Christian. Not some want a be priest. Oh the finches ruined his faith. How silly. A faith that never existed.

Change equals wrong. Science has to change its mind becaue it doesn't know everything. Sorry your faith is founded on that. But go ahead and enjoy it. You don't have much choice.

Quantrill

 

[snr5557]

Evolution may as well be magic. Just because they spend a lot of time at it doesn't mean it isn't a lie. It is.

I know that it can be upsetting to hear something that goes into contrast in what you want to hear, but that doesn't make it false.


Well, I said prove Darwin was a Christian. Not some want a be priest. Oh the finches ruined his faith. How silly. A faith that never existed.

That's not true at all, and that's incredibly judgmental to say someone you have never met or know much about to say that they didn't have any faith.


Change equals wrong. Science has to change its mind becaue it doesn't know everything. Sorry your faith is founded on that. But go ahead and enjoy it. You don't have much choice.

Change does not equal wrong. Change is part of life and nature. That's like saying that slavery in America is right and it's wrong that we changed it. That's like saying winter is wrong because it changed from Fall.

Science changes it's mind because as time goes on, we get better technology to test what we know. Take for example the model of the atom. Our idea of how it's formed has changed dramatically over time, but you wouldn't say that atoms don't exist.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Evolution may as well be magic. Just because they spend a lot of time at it doesn't mean it isn't a lie. It is.

I know that it can be upsetting to hear something that goes into contrast in what you want to hear, but that doesn't make it false.


Well, I said prove Darwin was a Christian. Not some want a be priest. Oh the finches ruined his faith. How silly. A faith that never existed.

That's not true at all, and that's incredibly judgmental to say someone you have never met or know much about to say that they didn't have any faith.


Change equals wrong. Science has to change its mind becaue it doesn't know everything. Sorry your faith is founded on that. But go ahead and enjoy it. You don't have much choice.

Change does not equal wrong. Change is part of life and nature. That's like saying that slavery in America is right and it's wrong that we changed it. That's like saying winter is wrong because it changed from Fall.

Science changes it's mind because as time goes on, we get better technology to test what we know. Take for example the model of the atom. Our idea of how it's formed has changed dramatically over time, but you wouldn't say that atoms don't exist.

Quantrill

Of course it makes it false. It goes against the Bible.

Again, prove to me Darwin was a Christian. You have not.

Change does equal wrong. My, my, my. that crow tastes terrible. Science is going to be wrong because they are always learning. Thus they have to admit they are wrong and change to what they now know. Which will change again as they learn more.

Science can add to its knowledge all it wants. But don't try and say it isn't wrong what it claimed before when it changes.

Quantrill

 

[snr5557]

Of course it makes it false. It goes against the Bible.

But if the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally, would it be against the Bible?


Again, prove to me Darwin was a Christian. You have not.

I told you, he was in the process of becoming a priest, who teaches Christianity. I remember a quote saying how his faith was as strong as a bishop, but I'm not entirely sure where it's from.


Change does equal wrong. My, my, my. that crow tastes terrible. Science is going to be wrong because they are always learning. Thus they have to admit they are wrong and change to what they now know. Which will change again as they learn more.

I still don't think you realize what you're saying. For example, scientists have found a vaccine for polio, a horrible disease that will cripple people. Are you saying that vaccine is wrong, since it came from science? Yes, science is fluid not rigid, but to discount everything it has done is not right. The more we know, the more we realize there is so much we don't know, so of course we try to understand that was well. It's a lovely and maddening cycle that I absolutely love :)

If you really do think science is wrong, why are you on a computer using the internet? Because science created what you're using right now.

 

[Quantrill]

Of course it makes it false. It goes against the Bible.

But if the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally, would it be against the Bible?


Again, prove to me Darwin was a Christian. You have not.

I told you, he was in the process of becoming a priest, who teaches Christianity. I remember a quote saying how his faith was as strong as a bishop, but I'm not entirely sure where it's from.


Change does equal wrong. My, my, my. that crow tastes terrible. Science is going to be wrong because they are always learning. Thus they have to admit they are wrong and change to what they now know. Which will change again as they learn more.

I still don't think you realize what you're saying. For example, scientists have found a vaccine for polio, a horrible disease that will cripple people. Are you saying that vaccine is wrong, since it came from science? Yes, science is fluid not rigid, but to discount everything it has done is not right. The more we know, the more we realize there is so much we don't know, so of course we try to understand that was well. It's a lovely and maddening cycle that I absolutely love :)

If you really do think science is wrong, why are you on a computer using the internet? Because science created what you're using right now.

The Bible is to be interpreted literally. Else we are left to 'your' intepretation. And we have seen where that goes.

You said Darwin was a Christian. Prove it. If you can't, say so.

God created the molecules that make up computer and all its implements. Why doesn't science acknowledge God?

I neve said science isn't learning. I said, science must get things wrong and change because they don't know everything. But, my faith is in God, and not science. Because God does know everything. So, you love believing something today which may be wrong tomorrow? Crow; get to like it.

Quantrill

 

[snr5557]

The Bible is to be interpreted literally. Else we are left to 'your' intepretation. And we have seen where that goes.

Where does it lead to?


You said Darwin was a Christian. Prove it. If you can't, say so.

I find that the fact that he was about to dedicate his entire life to his faith in enough, but if that's not enough for you I can't say much else. I wasn't alive at the time that he was, so I can't say I know him personally either.


God created the molecules that make up computer and all its implements. Why doesn't science acknowledge God?

Science itself cannot acknowledge anything that cannot be tested. Science isn't a person. However, many scientists acknowledge that there is a God, and many others do not. What you're saying is why do scientists not acknowledge God, and that will vary from person to person.


I neve said science isn't learning. I said, science must get things wrong and change because they don't know everything. But, my faith is in God, and not science. Because God does know everything. So, you love believing something today which may be wrong tomorrow? Crow; get to like it.

That's true, science is a quest for knowledge, a quest that can never be fulfilled because the universe holds so much :)
I guess if a person doesn't like change, constant change can seem horrible, but it's not. because we learn new things and find that can benefit humanity. It's because we learned from the past what will make a vaccine successful. It's because we learned from mistakes from the past that we understand a motor works. As the technology to test out theories become more advanced, our data gets more precise, which means our interpretations get more precise, which means our answers change. It's a beautiful and messy process. Kind of like life itself :)


Quantrill