Creationism in science class rooms

[Quantrill]

The Bible is to be interpreted literally. Else we are left to 'your' intepretation. And we have seen where that goes.

Where does it lead to?


You said Darwin was a Christian. Prove it. If you can't, say so.

I find that the fact that he was about to dedicate his entire life to his faith in enough, but if that's not enough for you I can't say much else. I wasn't alive at the time that he was, so I can't say I know him personally either.


God created the molecules that make up computer and all its implements. Why doesn't science acknowledge God?

Science itself cannot acknowledge anything that cannot be tested. Science isn't a person. However, many scientists acknowledge that there is a God, and many others do not. What you're saying is why do scientists not acknowledge God, and that will vary from person to person.


I neve said science isn't learning. I said, science must get things wrong and change because they don't know everything. But, my faith is in God, and not science. Because God does know everything. So, you love believing something today which may be wrong tomorrow? Crow; get to like it.

That's true, science is a quest for knowledge, a quest that can never be fulfilled because the universe holds so much :)
I guess if a person doesn't like change, constant change can seem horrible, but it's not. because we learn new things and find that can benefit humanity. It's because we learned from the past what will make a vaccine successful. It's because we learned from mistakes from the past that we understand a motor works. As the technology to test out theories become more advanced, our data gets more precise, which means our interpretations get more precise, which means our answers change. It's a beautiful and messy process. Kind of like life itself :)


Quantrill

You doubting that the Bible is the Word of God. You believing that parts of the Bible were added, or forgeries. Yes, we see where your beliefs lead.

Then you shouldn't say things like Darwin was a Christian when he wasn't. No wonder he founded 'evolution'. He was no Christian but yet wanted that title.

You asked why Im on the computer if I thought science was wrong. You credit science. I credit God. Science is learning. God knows all.

Yes, science is on a quest, where they will make many mistakes and be wrong. All the more reason to trust God.

With science its messy. Not so with God. He does exactly as He pleases. He knows all.

Quantrill

 

[snr5557]

You doubting that the Bible is the Word of God. You believing that parts of the Bible were added, or forgeries. Yes, we see where your beliefs lead.

I doubting the people who wrote, added, or forged parts of it. I believe in God yes, but humanity has more than a few faults on our side.


Then you shouldn't say things like Darwin was a Christian when he wasn't. No wonder he founded 'evolution'. He was no Christian but yet wanted that title.

I gave you evidence to show that he was, you just didn't believe it. That's not my fault.


You asked why Im on the computer if I thought science was wrong. You credit science. I credit God. Science is learning. God knows all.

Yes, God helps us discover things through science to make our world better. I remember telling you before that I see Him as the ultimate scientist. I never said He didn't.


Yes, science is on a quest, where they will make many mistakes and be wrong. All the more reason to trust God.

People do make mistakes, and they will sometimes be wrong, but that doesn't mean you should throw all of it away. And of course you should have faith in God, I never said not to.


With science its messy. Not so with God. He does exactly as He pleases. He knows all.


Again, I never said He didn't know.

 

[Quantrill]

You doubting that the Bible is the Word of God. You believing that parts of the Bible were added, or forgeries. Yes, we see where your beliefs lead.

I doubting the people who wrote, added, or forged parts of it. I believe in God yes, but humanity has more than a few faults on our side.


Then you shouldn't say things like Darwin was a Christian when he wasn't. No wonder he founded 'evolution'. He was no Christian but yet wanted that title.

I gave you evidence to show that he was, you just didn't believe it. That's not my fault.


You asked why Im on the computer if I thought science was wrong. You credit science. I credit God. Science is learning. God knows all.

Yes, God helps us discover things through science to make our world better. I remember telling you before that I see Him as the ultimate scientist. I never said He didn't.


Yes, science is on a quest, where they will make many mistakes and be wrong. All the more reason to trust God.

People do make mistakes, and they will sometimes be wrong, but that doesn't mean you should throw all of it away. And of course you should have faith in God, I never said not to.


With science its messy. Not so with God. He does exactly as He pleases. He knows all.


Again, I never said He didn't know.

But no one forged any parts of the Bible.

You gave nothing to prove Darwin was a Christian. There are lots of religious people who are not Christian. Churches are full of em. Show me where Darwin was a born-again Christian. Not just some want to be religious priest?

I didn't say you have to throw away all science. But I throw away all science which contridicts the Word of God. I reject all scientists interpretations of findings that they say contridict the Bible.

But I am saying God knows and gave us to know in the Bible. You believe a god knows, but you don't know. You can't. By your own method of knowing.

Quantrill

 

[snr5557]

But no one forged any parts of the Bible.

How do you know?

You gave nothing to prove Darwin was a Christian. There are lots of religious people who are not Christian. Churches are full of em. Show me where Darwin was a born-again Christian. Not just some want to be religious priest?

And you gave nothing that can disprove it. I guess we're at an impass since neither of us actually knew him at the time when he was alive. I can't make you believe in the evidence I have shown, and you can't make be disbelieve in it.


I didn't say you have to throw away all science. But I throw away all science which contridicts the Word of God. I reject all scientists interpretations of findings that they say contridict the Bible.

You would be throwing out medicine, since it relies a lot on evolution. I would hope that you wouldn't be against life saving medicine and vaccines, since those are God's gifts to those who have gotten sick or to prevent people from getting sick.


But I am saying God knows and gave us to know in the Bible. You believe a god knows, but you don't know. You can't. By your own method of knowing.

When did I ever say that God did not know? And what is it I don't know? Just to be clear, I never claimed to know everything.

 

[River Jordan]

There are over a hundred variations of the goatsbeard plant and now there is one more new one ..... so what ?? ... it is still within the goatsbeard family ..... just like all the varieties of wheat .... we can cross breed , select and even genetically modify any of them .... but they are still wheat plants.

Come back when the goatsbeard plant becomes a wheat plant in your lab .... then you have something

It cannot be done and you know it .... and if you try to imply that the magic waiting period of millions of years is required .... you have just lost your claim of being able to demonstrating it .

Yeah, this is what creationists usually do.

"Show me an example of a new species evolving"

--shows example--

"That doesn't count because it's not a new family!!"


You do realize that "family" is not the same as "species", don't you? I mean, if two populations that are completely unable to interbreed with each other, but are fully capable of breeding on their own are not two distinct species, then what exactly do you call species?

Creationism isn't taught because it goes against all evolutionary theories of science.

Evloution is taught because Godless scientists and a Godless country want to have an answer for the origins of earth and man and the universe outside of God. So they think they have it in 'evolution'.

Creationists views are based on truth, and absolute knowledge. Not the theories and incomplete, and ever changing knowledge science and scientists offer.

Quantrill

So you believe all of the natural sciences (biology, genetics, paleontology, geology, physics, cosmology, etc.) have been engaged in a massive conspiracy for the last 150 years?

 

[Quantrill]

But no one forged any parts of the Bible.

How do you know?

You gave nothing to prove Darwin was a Christian. There are lots of religious people who are not Christian. Churches are full of em. Show me where Darwin was a born-again Christian. Not just some want to be religious priest?

And you gave nothing that can disprove it. I guess we're at an impass since neither of us actually knew him at the time when he was alive. I can't make you believe in the evidence I have shown, and you can't make be disbelieve in it.


I didn't say you have to throw away all science. But I throw away all science which contridicts the Word of God. I reject all scientists interpretations of findings that they say contridict the Bible.

You would be throwing out medicine, since it relies a lot on evolution. I would hope that you wouldn't be against life saving medicine and vaccines, since those are God's gifts to those who have gotten sick or to prevent people from getting sick.


But I am saying God knows and gave us to know in the Bible. You believe a god knows, but you don't know. You can't. By your own method of knowing.

When did I ever say that God did not know? And what is it I don't know? Just to be clear, I never claimed to know everything.

Because God oversees His written Word.

You didn't give me any evidence that Darwin was a Christian. I asked you for it, since you wanted to claim he was. Now, you say I can't prove he wasn't. I haven't tried. Im waiting for your evidence that Darwin was a Christian. Surely you have something?

Medicines don't rely on evolution. Evolution is a faith and myth, and theory, etc.

I am saying God knows, and has given us to know in the Bible. Yet you do not believe His Word. Indeed, you don't. But you can't know about God by your method of knowing.

Quantrill

 

[River Jordan]

Medicines don't rely on evolution. Evolution is a faith and myth, and theory, etc.

Actually, it does. That's why a new influenza vaccine is needed every year. The virus has evolved and the vaccine needs to accommodate that evolution.

 

[Quantrill]

Yeah, this is what creationists usually do.

"Show me an example of a new species evolving"

--shows example--

"That doesn't count because it's not a new family!!"


You do realize that "family" is not the same as "species", don't you? I mean, if two populations that are completely unable to interbreed with each other, but are fully capable of breeding on their own are not two distinct species, then what exactly do you call species?


So you believe all of the natural sciences (biology, genetics, paleontology, geology, physics, cosmology, etc.) have been engaged in a massive conspiracy for the last 150 years?

I said nothing of a 'conspiracy'. Read what I said. Godless scientists and this countries Godlessness, have provided the platform for evolution. Science itself is not agaisnt God because God is the Creator. And all science will eventually agree exactly with God and the Bible. But we have a Godless group at work in the field of science today.

Quantrill

 

[snr5557]

Because God oversees His written Word.

Doesn't God oversee us? And yet we still make mistakes. So I don't think that argument is valid.


You didn't give me any evidence that Darwin was a Christian. I asked you for it, since you wanted to claim he was. Now, you say I can't prove he wasn't. I haven't tried. Im waiting for your evidence that Darwin was a Christian. Surely you have something?

I gave you evidence, which you decided didn't count. I can't help it if you decide to disbelieve what I've told you.


Medicines don't rely on evolution. Evolution is a faith and myth, and theory, etc.

It does actually. But, since you believe evolution is a myth, then you also believe that medicine doesn't exist.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/medicine_01


I am saying God knows, and has given us to know in the Bible. Yet you do not believe His Word. Indeed, you don't. But you can't know about God by your method of knowing.

I simply wish to know the truth, which you for some reason want to deny. How can we know what God truly intended if there are forgeries, things added in and/or taken out?

 

[Quantrill]

Actually, it does. That's why a new influenza vaccine is needed every year. The virus has evolved and the vaccine needs to accommodate that evolution.

How silly. Describe you term 'evolution' and what a 'virus' is that 'evolved'. Is this the best scientists can do to find something of proof for evolution. How lame that is.

Quantrill

 

[snr5557]

How silly. Describe you term 'evolution' and what a 'virus' is that 'evolved'. Is this the best scientists can do to find something of proof for evolution. How lame that is.

Quantrill

How are vaccines silly? They save people's lives, unless that does not matter to you. That, I think, is very lame.

 

[Quantrill]

Because God oversees His written Word.

Doesn't God oversee us? And yet we still make mistakes. So I don't think that argument is valid.


You didn't give me any evidence that Darwin was a Christian. I asked you for it, since you wanted to claim he was. Now, you say I can't prove he wasn't. I haven't tried. Im waiting for your evidence that Darwin was a Christian. Surely you have something?

I gave you evidence, which you decided didn't count. I can't help it if you decide to disbelieve what I've told you.


Medicines don't rely on evolution. Evolution is a faith and myth, and theory, etc.

It does actually. But, since you believe evolution is a myth, then you also believe that medicine doesn't exist.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/medicine_01


I am saying God knows, and has given us to know in the Bible. Yet you do not believe His Word. Indeed, you don't. But you can't know about God by your method of knowing.

I simply wish to know the truth, which you for some reason want to deny. How can we know what God truly intended if there are forgeries, things added in and/or taken out?

It doesn't matter what you think. It is what is written. God inspired the men to write. And what they wrote was without error because God inspired it. I don't expect you to believe it. Because as I said, you don't believe the Word of God.

No, you gave your statement that Darwin was a Christian. Give me a quote of someone somewhere that describes Darwins Christianity. Give me something other than your statement.

I have no problem with medicine. I have problem with scientists attributing evolution to it.

The only way to know the truth is to accept Jesus Christ by faith, as your Lord and Saviour. Start there. If you don't start there, then you cant know the Truth. Jesus is the Truth.

Quantrill

How are vaccines silly? They save people's lives, unless that does not matter to you. That, I think, is very lame.

Scientists are silly who want to attribute evolution to medicines. I have no problem with vaccines.

Quantrill

 

[River Jordan]

I said nothing of a 'conspiracy'. Read what I said. Godless scientists and this countries Godlessness, have provided the platform for evolution. Science itself is not agaisnt God because God is the Creator. And all science will eventually agree exactly with God and the Bible. But we have a Godless group at work in the field of science today.

Well it has to be a massive conspiracy, if what you say is true. If evolution never happens and the theory of evolution is 100% a lie, then surely the world's earth and life scientists have noticed. I mean, if you look through the scientific journals, there's all sorts of papers about observed evolutionary changes. But according to you, they're flat out lying, right? But given the 150 year history of all this and the worldwide nature of the scientific disciplines involved, this deliberate deceit has be happening on a global scale.

IOW, it has to be the biggest, longest running conspiracy and cover up in the history of humanity.

How silly. Describe you term 'evolution' and what a 'virus' is that 'evolved'. Is this the best scientists can do to find something of proof for evolution. How lame that is.

You claimed that medicine has nothing to do with evolution. I showed your claim to be wrong. If you want more details, CLICK HERE.

But the fact remains, the influenza virus evolves every year, which is why medical science has to develop a new vaccine each year. Those are the facts.
Quantrill,

Who wrote this?

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one"

 

[Quantrill]

Well it has to be a massive conspiracy, if what you say is true. If evolution never happens and the theory of evolution is 100% a lie, then surely the world's earth and life scientists have noticed. I mean, if you look through the scientific journals, there's all sorts of papers about observed evolutionary changes. But according to you, they're flat out lying, right? But given the 150 year history of all this and the worldwide nature of the scientific disciplines involved, this deliberate deceit has be happening on a global scale.

IOW, it has to be the biggest, longest running conspiracy and cover up in the history of humanity.


You claimed that medicine has nothing to do with evolution. I showed your claim to be wrong. If you want more details, CLICK HERE.

But the fact remains, the influenza virus evolves every year, which is why medical science has to develop a new vaccine each year. Those are the facts.

Quantrill,

Who wrote this?

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one"

Oh yeah, evolution is everywhere that a scientist can see it. On the pages of another scientists writings. Or under some microscope of umteenth power to behold. Or some 50 million years in the past. Yeah, its everywhere. That is why its a faith. Because there is no proof of evolution.

I don't need a link to evolutionary web sites. Just like I don't give you a link to Creationist web sites. Give me your view, and support it in some way. But don't just give me a link.

Yes, you call it a fact that the virsus evolves. Again, what are you calling 'evolution'. ?

I don't know who wrote it. Should I be impressed?

Quantrill

 

[snr5557]

Oh yeah, evolution is everywhere that a scientist can see it. On the pages of another scientists writings. Or under some microscope of umteenth power to behold. Or some 50 million years in the past. Yeah, its everywhere. That is why its a faith. Because there is no proof of evolution.

I don't need a link to evolutionary web sites. Just like I don't give you a link to Creationist web sites. Give me your view, and support it in some way. But don't just give me a link.

Yes, you call it a fact that the virsus evolves. Again, what are you calling 'evolution'. ?

I don't know who wrote it. Should I be impressed?

Quantrill

He's giving you a website because that is what scientists in the field are showing how they came to their conclusion. He is only supporting what he is saying, which is how a person gives credibility to their argument. That's part of how science works. You have to provide evidence for your claim.

 

[River Jordan]

Oh yeah, evolution is everywhere that a scientist can see it. On the pages of another scientists writings. Or under some microscope of umteenth power to behold. Or some 50 million years in the past. Yeah, its everywhere. That is why its a faith. Because there is no proof of evolution.

Yes, they do see it. As I described elsewhere, it's a very common and easily done lab experiment in a lot of undergraduate biology programs. If you doubt it all, then you should do it yourself and see the results. It's really easy to do.

I don't need a link to evolutionary web sites. Just like I don't give you a link to Creationist web sites. Give me your view, and support it in some way. But don't just give me a link.

I said you could go there if you were interested. Obviously you aren't interested.

I'm curious....do you think it's possible that you're wrong on this issue?

Yes, you call it a fact that the virsus evolves. Again, what are you calling 'evolution'. ?

Of course the virus evolves. Something evolving is evolution...what else would it be? :wacko:

I don't know who wrote it. Should I be impressed?

Charles Darwin wrote that.


snr...I'm a woman.

 

[Quantrill]

He's giving you a website because that is what scientists in the field are showing how they came to their conclusion. He is only supporting what he is saying, which is how a person gives credibility to their argument. That's part of how science works. You have to provide evidence for your claim.

I can always buy a book and do the same. This is a forum, which means there is a need to condense your knowledge down and express it and provide your proofs without me having to read the book. I will just find some Creationist books and tell you to read them. Then get back with me and show me where they are wrong.

Quantrill

 

[snr5557]

snr...I'm a woman.

I am so sorry, I really should know better than this. People assume I'm a guy too all the time. I read the name Rick and instantly thought a man, that's my bad. Won't happen again ^_^

I can always buy a book and do the same.

I hope you do.

This is a forum, which means there is a need to condense your knowledge down and express it and provide your proofs without me having to read the book.

She had been, but you weren't listening, so she was taking you straight to a source that backed up her opinion.

I will just find some Creationist books and tell you to read them. Then get back with me and show me where they are wrong.

That would be fun actually, to disect a Creationist book bit by bit and to show you some of the fallacies...challenge accepted! :)

 

[Quantrill]

Yes, they do see it. As I described elsewhere, it's a very common and easily done lab experiment in a lot of undergraduate biology programs. If you doubt it all, then you should do it yourself and see the results. It's really easy to do.

I said you could go there if you were interested. Obviously you aren't interested.

I'm curious....do you think it's possible that you're wrong on this issue?


Of course the virus evolves. Something evolving is evolution...what else would it be? :wacko:



Charles Darwin wrote that.


snr...I'm a woman.

They believe it, and so develop theories to support their belief.

No, because the Bible is the Word of God, and evolution and the Bible are contridictory to one another.

It's not evolving because science says so.

Just because one believes in a creator doesn't mean he believes in God. If one doesn't believe in the God of the Bible, then he doesn't believe in God.



Quantrill

 

[River Jordan]

They believe it, and so develop theories to support their belief.

Um....they "believe it" because they see it. I've seen it. What would you have me do, deny what I see with my own eyes? What do you think, that it's all an illusion or something?

Seriously, tell me what your explanation for the fact that the world's scientific community agrees that evolution happens and that we can see it. Are they lying? Are they just really bad at their jobs? Are they under some sort of satanic spell? What?

No, because the Bible is the Word of God, and evolution and the Bible are contridictory to one another.

Can you show me the scripture that says "populations never evolve"?

It's not evolving because science says so.

Boy, you're really struggling with this. Let me ask you this....after the fall, how did all those nasty bacteria, viruses, parasites, biting, and stinging things acquire the traits and abilities that they use to infect, kill, and injure us? If evolution never happens, where then did these things come from? Did God intentionally create the ebola virus to kill us?

Just because one believes in a creator doesn't mean he believes in God. If one doesn't believe in the God of the Bible, then he doesn't believe in God.

LOL. You'll never admit when you're wrong, will you?