Crusades Began with Reconquista

[Matthias]

Muslims believe the Bible instructs Christian to kill our enemies. I don’t. The Christian woman in this video responding (poorly, but rightly) to a Muslim evangelist doesn’t. The Christian theologians in the video don’t. I don’t.

Given the violent history of Christianity from the 4th century to the present - but particularly the time frame of the Crusades - who can blame the Muslim evangelist?

The Muslim must be pointed to the peaceful period of Christianity - the 1st century through the 3rd century. The Christians were peaceful, even while under extreme persecution from their enemies.

Christianity is the religion of peace.

Muslims challenge and reject that idea, frequently pointing to the Crusades. The objection is easily dealt with, but not by those who go along with “You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

When Christianity strays from the teaching and practice of Jesus and the apostles, it isn’t the religion of peace. When Christianity remains faithful to the teaching and practice of Jesus and the apostles, it is the religion of peace.

 

[Matthias]

And there was a time Peter got carried away .

10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it? - John 18

He didn’t understand why Jesus told them to get swords. He did after Jesus rebuked him. How do we know this is true? Simple. We read what Peter says about how to treat our enemies.

Where in the New Testament are Jesus and the apostles found killing their enemies? Nowhere. That would be failure to practice what they taught and preached.

Muslims / Islam is not a greater enemy of Jesus and the apostles than the Romans / paganism (and even Judaism) was.

 

[Armour of God]

There is no point in talking to Islamic sympathizers and Christian haters about this.
They just expect you to give up your life to the evil invaders while admitting that they would defend their family. Their nothing but hypocrites

 

[Matthias]

“The way to beat Caesar is to beat him at his own game.”

That’s the way of unbelieving Jews and pagans. That’s not the way of Jesus and the apostles.

“The way to beat Muhammad is to beat him at his own game.”

No it isn’t. Only a change of heart beats Muhammad, and that’s what teaching, preaching and modeling the gospel is all about.

 

[Matthias]

What would it take for you not to follow the way of Jesus and the apostles? If someone threatens to kill you if you don’t, would that do the trick?

”You are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

Test the spirit.

That’s not the spirit of Jesus. That’s the spirit of the devil.

We followers of Jesus do not use the weapons of the world. We use the full armor of God.

That’s how we put up a fight. That’s how we take on Muhammad / Islam.

 

[Matthias]

There is no point in talking to Islamic sympathizers and Christian haters about this.

A significant part of my ministry is speaking with “Islamic sympathizers and Christian haters” about the Messiah’s gospel of peace. That’s evangelism, and the point of it is to make disciples for him from the ranks of his enemies.

 

[Matthias]

“I am for peace; but when I speak, they are for war.”

(Psalm 120:7)

The worst they can do is persecute, torture and kill me. The least and best I can do is remain faithful to the teaching and example of Jesus and the apostles; no matter what others think about me, say about me, or do to me. I’m a follower of Jesus, and my life is surrendered to him.

 

[rockytopva]

I tried to find the feeling of Christ motive in the video...

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you. - Galatians 419

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. - John 12:32

In which in the case of RW Schambach...

He fought in WW2... In which was the correct thing to do.
He served peacefully as an evangelist... In which was the correct thing to do.

Trying to find the correct spiritual motive. In which is hard to do. I attended a Bible study in which some of the motives of the men were just terrible.

 

[Matthias]

Crusades began with returning violence for violence; with treating the enemy not as you would have the enemy treat you, but rather, treating the enemy the way that the enemy treats you. The teaching of Jesus abandoned when evil brushes the teaching aside.

The followers of Jesus must not become like their enemies. For to do so is to repudiate the teaching of Jesus.

Leave to the government the God-given role and responsibility of the government, as Paul layed out in Romans 13.

 

[Wrangler]

There are times when Christians (Protestant, Catholic, whatever) get carried away.

Getting carried away is not inherent among Christians; it is inherent in the dogs of war being unleashed. Regrettable, yes. Unavoidable, also yes. The Crusaders bear no special guilt in this regard - especially as they were REACTING to centuries of provocation by Islamic Jihadi's. That is, they were not the aggressor.

The mindset that the defender is to blame reminds me of a civil law suit from a decade or 2 ago. I think it was in California or some other damned Leftist province. A burglar climbed a 12-foot fence in an attempt to break into a home, fell, broke his ankle and successfully sued the home owners for putting up such a tall fence!

This is in the category of stuff you can't make up - as is all the rationalizations @Matthias invents in his fanatical pacifism and Islamic apologizing.

 

[Matthias]

What the Jewish Rabbi would do for the torah of Moses in the movie, the follower of Jesus must be prepared to do in real life - if it comes to it - for the torah of Messiah. The apostles did. The earliest followers of Jesus did. With God’s help, I will do.

Note that what the chief called “brave,“ the teacher of “You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill” calls “cowardice”.

 

[Matthias]

Getting carried away is not inherent among Christians; it is inherent in the dogs of war being unleashed. Regrettable, yes. Unavoidable, also yes. The Crusaders bear no special guilt in this regard - especially as they were REACTING to centuries of provocation by Islamic Jihadi's. That is, they were not the aggressor.

The mindset that the defender is to blame reminds me of a civil law suit from a decade or 2 ago. I think it was in California or some other damned Leftist province. A burglar climbed a 12-foot fence in an attempt to break into a home, fell, broke his ankle and successfully sued the home owners for putting up such a tall fence!

This is in the category of stuff you can't make up - as is all the rationalizations @Matthias invents in his fanatical pacifism and Islamic apologizing.

The writings of the Ante Nicene Church Fathers. They serve as a powerful witness against you.

They weren’t Islamic apologists. Neither am I.

 

[Matthias]

Matthias -> “rabbi with no knife,“ armed only with the full armor of God.

 

[Matthias]

Christianity is the religion of peace.

If we don’t believe that it is true, if we don’t teach that it is true, if we don’t preach that it is true, if we don’t model it is true, then we aren’t evangelizing Muslims.

This thread is about the Crusades, not about the religion of peace.

Evil comes for the religion of peace. Followers of Jesus, don’t be overcome by evil. Overcome evil by obeying the gospel of peace.

Muslims challenge and reject that idea, frequently pointing to the Crusades. The objection is easily dealt with, but not by those who go along with “You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

When Christianity strays from the teaching and practice of Jesus and the apostles, it isn’t the religion of peace. When Christianity remains faithful to the teaching and practice of Jesus and the apostles, it is the religion of peace.

 

[Matthias]

Compare and contrast that fruit with the fruit of our enemies.

Believe and remember this: The enemies of the gospel are the mission field. Treat them that way.

 

[rockytopva]

Matthias -> “rabbi with no knife,“ armed only with the full armor of God.

Do you fault Israel for attacking Lebanon?

Iran says Strait of Hormuz is closed over ceasefire violations after continued Israeli strikes in Lebanon

Iran and the U.S. have both shown frustration with Israel for continuing to strike Lebanon despite the deal signed this week, which committed to end fighting on all fronts.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Matthias]

Do you fault Israel for attacking Lebanon?

Iran says Strait of Hormuz is closed over ceasefire violations after continued Israeli strikes in Lebanon

Iran and the U.S. have both shown frustration with Israel for continuing to strike Lebanon despite the deal signed this week, which committed to end fighting on all fronts.

www.nbcnews.com

No.

Have you read C.H. Spurgeon?

 

[rockytopva]

No.

Have you read C.H. Spurgeon?

The news in Israel looks like Crusades beginning with the Reconquista of Israel. In which... I do not fault them for. And I do not fault Christians for the Reconquista of their own lands either.

 

[Matthias]

The news in Israel looks like Crusades beginning with the Reconquista of Israel. In which... I do not fault them for. And I do not fault Christians for the Reconquista of their own lands either.

Have you read Spurgeon?

 

[rockytopva]

Have you read Spurgeon?

Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old. - Matthew 13:52

I am afraid Spurgeon is not in my bag baby! Compliments, though, on being a well studied guy!