Crusades Began with Reconquista

[Matthias]

Don’t feed the troll.

I’m feeding you the words of one of your favorite Christian authors.

“The god of this world is skilled in making men love sin.” - C.H. Spurgeon

”You aren’t following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

That’s an example of the skill of the god of this world. You love it.

 

[Anchorite]

When a person keeps quoting “buy a sword”, to imply that Jesus is advocating using lethal weapons to kill your enemies, but that same person claims that Jesus lied, he unknowingly sabotages his own argument.

We know that no believers in the book of Acts ever used a sword for self-defense. When Peter used a sword to defend Jesus, Peter was scolded and told to put away his sword.

Believers died as martyrs. They did not kill as Crusaders.

 

[Matthias]

But you called Jesus a liar …

He did and he’s proud of it. That’s the skill of the god of this world on display.

@rockytopva does that not at least raise a yellow flag in your mind when you hear what he says about me? About other Christians?

 

[Wrangler]

When a person keeps quoting “buy a sword”, to imply that Jesus is advocating using lethal weapons to kill your enemies, but that same person claims that Jesus lied, he unknowingly sabotages his own argument.

Two things can be true at the same time. Go away troll.

 

[Matthias]

Two things can be true at the same time.

Even three things, or four.

You’re sincere in teaching others that Jesus approves of his followers killing one another in the wars of the nations. You believe that he commands it. You believe the followers of Jesus have always taught it, and have always done it.

Right?

 

[Anchorite]

 

[Matthias]

I am afraid Spurgeon is not in my bag baby!

Consider this from the pen of Spurgeon -

“He that cannot be safely imitated ought not to be tolerated in a pulpit.”

Now consider this from the pen of @Wrangler -

“Jesus obviously lied … We must admit deception is an important tool in war and there is a spiritual war.”

and this

”You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

He is at war with me and he constantly lies about me. He’s deceiving his readers.

I’m obviously not imitating him - I’m fairly confident that even he would agree with that - and, as a retired pastor, I’m bound in conscience to warn others against imitating him.

 

[Anchorite]

Consider this from the pen of Spurgeon -

“He that cannot be safely imitated ought not to be tolerated in a pulpit.”

Now consider this from the pen of @Wrangler -

“Jesus obviously lied … We must admit deception is an important tool in war and there is a spiritual war.”

and this

”You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

He is at war with me and he constantly lies about me. He’s deceiving his readers.

I’m obviously not imitating him - I’m fairly confident that even he would agree with that - and, as a retired pastor, I’m bound in conscience to warn others against imitating him.

Seems like Wangler subscribes to Islamic sharia law. Perhaps he is a secret Muslim?

According to sharia, in certain situations, deception – also known as ‘taqiyya’, based on Quranic terminology, – is not only permitted but sometimes obligatory. For instance, contrary to early Christian history, Muslims who must choose between either recanting Islam or being put to death are not only permitted to lie by pretending to have apostatised, but many jurists have decreed that, according to Quran 4:29, Muslims are obligated to lie in such instances.

 

[Matthias]

Seems like Wangler subscribes to Islamic sharia law. Perhaps he is a secret Muslim?

According to sharia, in certain situations, deception – also known as ‘taqiyya’, based on Quranic terminology, – is not only permitted but sometimes obligatory. For instance, contrary to early Christian history, Muslims who must choose between either recanting Islam or being put to death are not only permitted to lie by pretending to have apostatised, but many jurists have decreed that, according to Quran 4:29, Muslims are obligated to lie in such instances.

I don’t think he’s a Muslim but he does share that ethic with them.

I do love irony and it would really be something if it actually turns out that he is a Muslim.

What he does to me (and others) isn’t Christian, and I use that to my advantage.

 

[Matthias]

There are times when Christians (Protestant, Catholic, whatever) get carried away...

It’s called sin, and it can - must - be repented of.

Would you agree that lying is a sin? Would you agree that the Bible condemns it? Would you agree that the Lord hates it? Would you agree that all liars are destined for destruction if they remain on that pathway?

@Wrangler is enamored with deception. It‘s a tactic which he frequently touts as a Christian ethic in processing spiritual warfare, pointing to Jesus of Nazareth as the example par excellence to follow. Does that not alarm you?

”Jesus obviously lied” - don’t rush past it.

God wants us to believe that Jesus lied? I don’t believe that for a second. Do you?

The devil, the father of lies, wants us to believe that Jesus lied? I have no difficulty believing that. Do you?

Now listen again to what the devil - Wrangler is just a conduit - is saying about me, and about other Christians.

I asked you yesterday (please see post #62) if you really believe what he says about me. Don’t you think I deserve an answer?

 

[Matthias]

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.

I believe that. I teach that. I preach that. I live that. I’ve staked my life on that.

If it’s not true that he is then I’ve wasted my life.

@rockytopva I believe that you too believe that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.

Now you hear someone, anyone, even me (which no one has ever heard me say, nor ever will) say “Jesus obviously lied” - the man who is the embodiment of God’s truth - “obviously lied“?

That grieves my spirit. Does it not grieve yours?

Think what you want, think what you will, keep your thoughts about me to yourself if you please - but please don’t let the opportunity pass to do what you can to persuade those who believe “Jesus obviously lied” that their perception of Jesus of Nazareth is wrong. There’s too much at stake for that person, and for those persuaded by him or her, not to try.

 

[Matthias]

Reconquista.The devil wants to reconquer that which he has lost. Follower of Jesus, that’s you. The devil wants to reconquer you, to enslave you again, to kill you.

Teaching people that Jesus approves of his followers killing one another - we can get to what Jesus approves of his followers doing to those who don’t follow him later - is the devil, your adversary, on the prowl, seeking someone to devour (1 Peter 5:8).

 

[Armour of God]

 

[Armour of God]

 

[Armour of God]

In medieval Iberia, the Christian man had three options for himself and his family.

1- Convert to Islam

2 - Allow himself and his sons to be tortured and killed and allow his wife and daughters to be raped and enslaved

3 - Defend his homeland against Muslim invasion

Luckily, the brave men of Iberia Defended against Muslim invasion and were victorious. I am forever greatful to them

VIVA A RECONQUISTA

 

[Armour of God]

 

[Ziggy]

that’s the role of the government, not the church.

So if our government is made up of we the people,
does that mean none of the people are the church?

 

[Wrangler]

So if our government is made up of we the people,
does that mean none of the people are the church?

He fails to grasp Venn diagrams and Odoro Amoris. We have multiple responsibilities - not just fealty to one thing. When Christ said to "love your enemies," he was talking about at the personal level. Christ was NOT commanding we act treasonously to the civil authorities.

Therefore, "we" are the church and "we" are the government and "we" are the family and "we" are the neighbor, and "we" are the son and "we" are the father" and "we" are the brother, etc. There is more than one relational role we are obligated to perform.

 

[Ziggy]

He fails to grasp Venn diagrams and Odoro Amoris. We have multiple responsibilities - not just fealty to one thing. When Christ said to "love your enemies," he was talking about at the personal level. Christ was NOT commanding we act treasonously to the civil authorities.

Therefore, "we" are the church and "we" are the government and "we" are the family and "we" are the neighbor, and "we" are the son and "we" are the father" and "we" are the brother, etc. There is more than one relational role we are obligated to perform.

well, governments are created by the people to defend the people.
right?

 

[Wrangler]

well, governments are created by the people to defend the people.
right?

It's really that simple. @Debp has started many threads sadly showing this is not the case in the UK.