Cults

[Nancy]

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The problem is that most folks believe anyone who doesn't believe as they believe are cultists.

Anyone can point to any kind of leadership in a denomination or even a congregation and holler "CULT!"

Which, unfortunately, makes a thread like this a virtual sandbox.
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More like a petri dish

 

[Wayne222]

This thread is totally about why people join cults not all the other stuff. It’s important to know the why they go into cults like Jim Jones and the branch Davidians and the moonies there are so many that people fall prey to. I know why I fell for Herbert w Armstrong cult. I was lacking in biblical knowledge and he could twist scripture really well. But there are other reasons like Jim jones offered security to poorer people and a place to fit in for the disenfranchised. And that led to 1000 persons and children dyiny under his hand. True Christianity does not have a leader demanding blind obedience. Watch out for that.

 

[Behold]

What is the main reason people go to cults ? I almost did when I was a teenager. I know Gods Holy Spirit lead me away from that and kept me free.

People need love, acceptance, hope, and security.

God provides this as a Father, through Christ, to "all who will come to the Cross and Give God their Faith in Christ".

The Devil provides this as a false representation, a false hope... using the World system and Deception.
The world system is built on deception and lust and "feelings" and "opinions"., vs Truth.

Cults are a part of it, and they manifest what seems like love and security and hope and acceptance., but it's really just a mental net, a mind trap, a cunning deception.

The naked truth about all this, is that people are sheep, needing to be led., and cults take advantage of this, regarding their victims.

Also, every person has some self righteousness issues, and cults that pretend to be "christian" enflame this in you, and get you chasing your own salvation, by self effort.
That's how they deceive you out of faith in Christ and have you hanging on the nails of your own self righteousness.

 

[BarneyFife]

Big Boy Johnson said:

SDAs pick and choose which scriptures they believe based on their preconceived ideas about only going to church on Saturday is accepted by the Lord and those that attend on Sunday will go to hell.

They claim nobody gets tortured in hell for eternity except for those that go to church on Sunday

Those that have twisted scripture to claim one can only be saved if they go to church in Saturday... are the ones that have been deceived. It's really sad, but it is what it is. Too bad for the Saturday only peoples.

In fact, I learned years ago to not read commentaries as this is being indoctrinated by the author which is how the SDA peoples got deceived on their false doctrines by following the writings of Ellen G White rather than accepting the whole counsel of God

Their position is that they are required to have church in Saturday and if they do not then they cannot be saved.

For them it's about earning salvation by doing this one good work... and they think Jesus and His Apostles meant to teach this in the New Covenant but it somehow slipped their mind so the SDA's have been tasked with taking the Saturday "gospel" to the world to warn others they will be lost if they don't have church on Saturday only.

They claim if one has church on any other day of the week other than Saturday, they are not saved and are servants of satan.

This is their religion in a nutshell, along with the false doctrine of annihilationism

I hope habitual and ever-increasing lying doesn't cause someone to lose their standing with God (I know you despise the "OSAS peoples," too) because if it does, Sabbath-breaking might be the least of your worries.

We don't believe that anyone is tortured in hell forever, much less people who go to church on Sunday, and especially those who are observing Sunday as a day of rest at this present time.

(A well-enumerated list of Seventh-day Adventist beliefs is transparently available for all to investigate at adventist.org/beliefs)

Even the most despised figure among us makes this clear:

"The change in the fourth commandment is the change pointed out in the prophecy, and the keeping of the counterfeit Sabbath is the reception of the mark. But Christians of past generations observed the first day, supposing that they were keeping the Bible Sabbath, and there are in the churches of today many who honestly believe that Sunday is the Sabbath of divine appointment. None of these have received the mark of the beast. There are true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion. The test upon this question does not come until Sunday observance is enforced by law, and the world is enlightened concerning the obligation of the true Sabbath. Not until the issue is thus plainly set before the people, and they are brought to choose between the commandments of God and the commandments of men, will those who continue in transgression receive the mark of the beast."
Ellen G. White—The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 4, p. 218

The Mark of the Beast—When Sunday observance shall be enforced by law, and the world shall be enlightened concerning the obligation of the true Sabbath, then whoever shall transgress the command of God, to obey a precept which has no higher authority than that of Rome, will thereby honor popery above God. He is paying homage to Rome, and to the power which enforces the institution ordained by Rome. He is worshiping the beast and his image. As men then reject the institution which God has declared to be the sign of His authority, and honor in its stead that which Rome has chosen as the token of her supremacy, they will thereby accept the sign of allegiance to Rome,—“the mark of the beast.” And it is not until the issue is thus plainly set before the people, and they are brought to choose between the commandments of God and the commandments of men, that those who continue in transgression will receive “the mark of the beast.”
Ellen G. White—The Great Controversy, 449 (1888).

Reception of Mark of the Beast Future—The change of the Sabbath is the sign or mark of the authority of the Romish church. Those who, understanding the claims of the fourth commandment, choose to observe the false sabbath in the place of the true, are thereby paying homage to that power by which alone it is commanded. The mark of the beast is the papal sabbath, which has been accepted by the world in the place of the day of God's appointment.
No one has yet received the mark of the beast. The testing time has not yet come. There are true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion. None are condemned until they have had the light and have seen the obligation of the fourth commandment. But when the decree shall go forth enforcing the counterfeit sabbath, and the loud cry of the third angel shall warn men against the worship of the beast and his image, the line will be clearly drawn between the false and the true. Then those who still continue in transgression will receive the mark of the beast.
Ellen G. White—Evangelism, pp. 234

By the way, literally thousands of people profess their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as the sole propitiation for their sins and become members of the worldwide Seventh-day Adventist every year without reading a single word that Ellen G. White wrote.

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[dev553344]

This thread is totally about why people join cults not all the other stuff. It’s important to know the why they go into cults like Jim Jones and the branch Davidians and the moonies there are so many that people fall prey to. I know why I fell for Herbert w Armstrong cult. I was lacking in biblical knowledge and he could twist scripture really well. But there are other reasons like Jim jones offered security to poorer people and a place to fit in for the disenfranchised. And that led to 1000 persons and children dyiny under his hand. True Christianity does not have a leader demanding blind obedience. Watch out for that.

People probably join cults because most people want to be led. They don't want to make the tough choices and take responsibility for their actions. Now days people that make the decisions get prosecuted by the law for every little mistake they make. It has become an era of persecution of leaders.

There are some evil cults out there, you know them by their fruits. Like the Heaven's Gate cult that all drank poison to leave with the comet that passed by. They all died under a devious cult leader's direction. He died so that he couldn't face prosecution. But that is a good example of someone abusing their authority.

I think abuse of authority might be a good sign of belonging to a Christian cult. There are many religions and Christian cults are just one of them. People should be cautious of who they follow. And not a leaf in the wind. But stand strong to sound reasoning, always on the look out for treachery.

It's like all the fan clubs out their for media stars. People will follow anyone sometimes.

 

[Spyder]

This thread is totally about why people join cults not all the other stuff. It’s important to know the why they go into cults like Jim Jones and the branch Davidians and the moonies there are so many that people fall prey to. I know why I fell for Herbert w Armstrong cult. I was lacking in biblical knowledge and he could twist scripture really well. But there are other reasons like Jim jones offered security to poorer people and a place to fit in for the disenfranchised. And that led to 1000 persons and children dyiny under his hand. True Christianity does not have a leader demanding blind obedience. Watch out for that.

Uh, brother; there are churches, mainstream with large congregations that absolutely DO demand blind obedience.

 

[Pearl]

Uh, brother; there are churches, mainstream with large congregations that absolutely DO demand blind obedience.

Uh - not so much Church then? The true Church - the body of Christ - does not demand 'blind obedience'.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Uh - not so much Church then? The true Church - the body of Christ - does not demand 'blind obedience'.

And yet, the Lord requires obedience although He will teach us why His Word says what it says so we are not blind.

2 Thessalonians 1:8,9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting punishment from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 

[Nancy]

This thread is totally about why people join cults not all the other stuff. It’s important to know the why they go into cults like Jim Jones and the branch Davidians and the moonies there are so many that people fall prey to. I know why I fell for Herbert w Armstrong cult. I was lacking in biblical knowledge and he could twist scripture really well. But there are other reasons like Jim jones offered security to poorer people and a place to fit in for the disenfranchised. And that led to 1000 persons and children dyiny under his hand. True Christianity does not have a leader demanding blind obedience. Watch out for that.

Hello Wayne, and welcome here. As a babe in Christ back in 91 or 92, I was at the library and in my bible all the time, couldn't get enough. I grabbed many bible related books and one happened to be a Herbert Armstrong book. I cannot remember what I was reading from this book but, all I do remember was panic, confusion and fear because of what I read. My best friend, (who came to know Christ with me prayed on the phone with me) told me to return the book, and of course I did but the beauty of the whole experience was that, like a child, after getting off the phone with her; I decided to simply open the bible randomly for an answer from scripture and wouldn't you know, it landed right on Galatians 5, and the verses 7-10 is what I read:

7 "You were running well. Who hindered you, not to obey the truth? 8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be."

What a lift from the God of all comfort!!!

 

[The Learner]

The issue is the word "cult" itself has some many definitions as to render it useless.

- From a sociological standpoint, a "cult" is simply a body of believers. Neither good or bad, or anything else. Under this definition, Jesus was 100% a cult leader.
- From a pop-culture standpoint, a "cult" is something like Heaven's Gate. A group of fanatical believers that isolate themselves blindly following their leader.
- Walter Martin sired the "anti-cult" movement following his own personal definition of "cult" which equated to any religious group he disliked without internal logic/consistency. Martin himself could be viewed as a cult leader under the second definition here.

There's also the matter than some individuals just have a I'm-going-to-follow-and-not-think mindset. As this mindset is just a human thing, these blindly-following-cultist style folks can be found in literally any group, regardless of the group's tenants.

Walter Martin defines cults this way: By, cult, we mean a group, religious in nature, which surrounds a leader or a group of teachings which either denies or misinterprets essential biblical doctrine.

 

[The Learner]

And do YOU think they are damned or “cultist” for this beliefs?

 

[The Learner]

I must have missed your answer. Again, I'm not an SDA and I have a lot of disagreements with that theology.

Logically, if you condemn them for believing in Saturday only worship, then that means you believe that a person's salvation is dependent their belief on the day they worship.

SDA teach that those who worship on Sunday are not saved.

 

[The Learner]

As do all Christians whom believe that the Father is the Father of all and read John 20:17. Just nobody goes about thinking / phrasing things that, including LDS Christians. This obsession is only found in "anti-cultists".

LDS, Mormons believe they will become a God.

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret.... It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know... that he was once a man like us.... Here, then, is eternal life – to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves... the same as all Gods have done before you...”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., “King Follett Discourse,” Journal of Discourses, v. 6, pp. 3-4, also in Teachings of the Prophet of Joseph Smith, pp. 345-346.

“He is our Father – the Father of our Spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted being.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 333.

“The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like himself.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 3, p. 93.

“... God... is a personal Being, a holy and exalted man...”

- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966 ed., p. 250.

“Mormon prophets have continuously taught the sublime truth that God the Eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school of earth life similar that through which we are now passing. He became God – an exalted being – through obedience to the same eternal Gosepl truths that we are given opportunity to obey.”

- Apostle Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 104

“God is an exalted man. Some people are troubled over the statements of the Prophet Joseph Smith... that our Father in heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man...”

- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 1, p. 10

“There is a statement often repeated in the Church, and while it is not in one of the Standard Church Works, it is accepted as church doctrine, and this is: ‘As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.”

- Apostle LeGrand Richards, letter to Morris L. Reynolds, July 14, 1966, cited by Tanner in Mormonism: Shadow or Reality, p. 164.



The church's message, he explained, "is a message of Christ. Our church is Christ-centered. He's our leader. He's our head. His name is the name of our church." At first, Hinckley seemed to qualify the idea that men could become gods, suggesting that "it's of course an ideal. It's a hope for a wishful thing," but later affirmed that "yes, of course they can." (He added that women could too, "as companions to their husbands. They can't conceive a king without a queen.") On whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man, he sounded uncertain, "I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it... I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it."

- Time, August 4, 1997

After a spokesman for the LDS Church questioned the accuracy of the Time quotation, the transcript was released:

“Q: Just another related question that comes up is the statements in the King Follett discourse by the Prophet [Joseph Smith, Jr.]
Hinckley: Yeah.
Q:…about that, God the Father was once a man as we were. This is something that Christian writers are always addressing. Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are?
Hinckley: I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it. I haven't heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don't know. I don't know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I don't know a lot about it and I don't know that others know a lot about it.”

- Full transcript of Interview with Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, Time, August 4, 1997

“Q: There are some significant differences in your beliefs. For instance, don't Mormons believe that God was once a man?
A: [Gordon B. Hinckley] I wouldn't say that. There was a little couplet coined, ‘As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.' Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about.”

- San Francisco Chronicle, interview with Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, April 13, 1997, Sunday Interview, by Don Lattin, p. 3/Z1.

“None of you need worry because you read something that was incompletely reported. You need not worry that I do not understand some matters of doctrine... I think I understand them thoroughly.”

- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, October 4, 1997

“First, we believe that God is a being with a body in form like man's; that he possesses body, parts and passions; that in a word, God is an exalted, perfected man.
“Secondly, we believe in a plurality of Gods.
“Third, we believe that somewhere and some time in the ages to come, through development, through enlargement, through purification until perfection is attained, man at last may become like God – a God.”

- LDS Historian B.H. Roberts, The Mormon Doctrine of Deity: The Roberts-Van Der Donckt Discussion, p. 11

“God must have been engaged from the beginning, and must now be engaged in progressive development, and infinite as God is, he must have been less powerful in the past than he is today.... We may be certain that, through self-effort, the inherent and innate powers of God have been developed to a God-like degree. Thus he has become God.”

- Apostle John A. Widtsoe, Rational Theology, 1915, pp. 23-24

“The Father became the Father at some time before ‘the beginning' as humans know it, by experiencing a mortality similar to that experienced on earth... Gods and humans are the same species of being, but at different stages of development in a divine continuum, and that the heavenly Father and Mother are the heavenly pattern, model, and example of what mortals can become through obedience to the gospel.... Knowing that they are the literal offspring of Heavenly Parents and that they can become like those parents through the gospel of Jesus Christ is a wellspring of religious motivation.”

 

[The Learner]

oh I made it, wife is kicking me off

 

[Ziggy]

oh I made it, wife is kicking me off

Being single does have some advantages. lol
If I could choose between a healthy happy marriage and the internet,
I would drop the internet like a bucket of ice.

I was going to say hot potato, but this computer got no earthly warmth, just a motor that tends to overheat and shut down. lol

Only thing warm about it is the friends and family I come to meet and know through it.
Much Love
Hugs

 

[Illuminator]

And do YOU think they are damned or “cultist” for this beliefs?

You have it backwards. SDA thinks all Christians who worship on Sunday will one day conspire with the state to pass laws making Sabbatarianism illegal. Everybody else is a whore and/or daughters of the whore but not them. There are plenty of reasons why they target the Catholic Church to the extreme they do. I don't damn them or any body else, but there is nothing in current history, since The Great Controversy was published, to support a prophecy that is intrinsically disordered. Calling your mother a whore is the worst of universal insults. My Church says the SDA are not a cult, but a sect, and I think they would agree with at least that much.

Seventh-day Adventism

Most people know little about the Seventh-day Adventists beyond that they worship on Saturdays, not Sundays. But there’s more to this unique sect.

www.catholic.com

 

[Chains Broken]

Like the Heaven's Gate cult that all drank poison to leave with the comet that passed by. They all died under a devious cult leader's direction. He died so that he couldn't face prosecution. But that is a good example of someone abusing their authority.

I agree about Heaven's Gate, I think those people mostly just lost and wanted a community and a leader. YouTube has the interviews with the members before they died, they seem like kind people just very docile and probably looking for a purpose, and Applewhite gave them that. He had them so brainwashed I think a few members even agreed to have their genitals removed, but once they tried it they realized it was a bloody mess. Interestingly they could have left the cult whenever they wanted without repercussions.

 

[Wayne222]

Uh, brother; there are churches, mainstream with large congregations that absolutely DO demand blind obedience.

Of course there are some. There acting like a cult. Our faith has to be in scripture. The scriptures are God inspired.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Walter Martin defines cults this way: By, cult, we mean a group, religious in nature, which surrounds a leader or a group of teachings which either denies or misinterprets essential biblical doctrine.

And sadly Walter Martin taught eternal security which is false doctrine... ultimately this makes him a false teacher.

He did have some good teachings about cults being false... but he was part of the OSAS cult so in the end he embraced one of the major cults of our day which is based on the tenets of calvinism and is false doctrine.

 

[The Learner]

Being single does have some advantages. lol
If I could choose between a healthy happy marriage and the internet,
I would drop the internet like a bucket of ice.

I was going to say hot potato, but this computer got no earthly warmth, just a motor that tends to overheat and shut down. lol

Only thing warm about it is the friends and family I come to meet and know through it.
Much Love
Hugs