Daniel 2 and Nebu's vision of the statue

[revturmoil]

I have know reason to change my mind, I understand Scripture.

The moment we assume we have all the truth is the moment The Spirit is hindered in revealing things to you us. If we believe we are already enlightened to the all the truth we deceive ourselves.

 

[Alethos]

We should reason together. Up for it!
Don't misquote me. I never said the Roman Empire never existed. Only that it's not represented in the statue! What do you mean afraid??? For 20 years I believed Rome was the Legs of Iron! I'm not denying anything. Wasn't it you who said, "Or better stated "quoting scripture with scripture?"

Your theory disregards Daniel 5:31

"And Darius the Median took the kingdom, (Babylon) being about threescore and two years old."

It also disregards the little horn.

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east,...(this is the area that is in apostasy as we speak)

and toward the pleasant land. (Israel)
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. (Same is said about the Assyrian in Isaiah 14)

The little horn emerges from the Grecian Empire. Not Rome.
Daniel 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.



No they are historicist. I just don't...or try not to hold any prejudices against churches anyway.

　

I've been asking you and the others to prove to me that the apostasy has something to do with the church. Just saying so doesn't work.



Maybe a brief history of Islam would help. You really ought to look at it.
A false christ or a false prophet doen't have to come in the literal name of Christ. That's another total interpretational blunder of the people who promote that the harlot is the 'apostate church."



That is so very true. If your sure about end-time prophecy and have it all figured out then you're bound to what you believe. You likely would not change your mind. I typically like to bring to the forum the things that I'm "pretty sure about." Nothing is etched in stone. I can only hope people "profit" from my studies as kaotic as they may be.

　

You have!!! :blink: ??? OK!

Ok lets find something to agree on.

Do you believe there are only four empires/beasts presented in Dan 2 & 7?

A yes no answer would suffice.

Alethos

 

[Alethos]

The moment we assume we have all the truth is the moment The Spirit is hindered in revealing things to you us. If we believe we are already enlightened to the all the truth we deceive ourselves.

kaoticprofit,

Be assured I am looking into your theories and testing them against the scriptures.

I would be interested to know how you interpret Revelation 9:1-11

Because here I believe we do have reference to the role of Muhammad and the power of Islam. There, the power is referred to as both locusts and scorpions, in their execution of divine judgement upon the idolatry of eastern Roman empire.

Just so we are clear, I believe the 4 beasts of Revelation are different stages of the fourth beast of Dan 7. Jesus goes to some lengths in Revelation chapter one to link Dan 2 & 7 with Revelation. Daniel and Revelation perfectly complete the historic picture and show us a far more detailed view of the Roman fourth beast. Which I have already stated goes from its inception right though its legs into the feet and right to the return of Christ. Where he smashes the image (upon its feet) at the end of of this age.

I appreciate you see it differently but wondered how you reconcile both Daniel & Revelation?

Alethos

ps. from time to time I do quote from very old works (200 years) but they are not on the net and no copyright applies. I study the old fashioned way...from a real book with words penned in ink

 

[revturmoil]

kaoticprofit,

Be assured I am looking into your theories and testing them against the scriptures.

I would be interested to know how you interpret Revelation 9:1-11

Because here I believe we do have reference to the role of Muhammad and the power of Islam. There, the power is referred to as both locusts and scorpions, in their execution of divine judgement upon the idolatry of eastern Roman empire.

Just so we are clear, I believe the 4 beasts of Revelation are different stages of the fourth beast of Dan 7. Jesus goes to some lengths in Revelation chapter one to link Dan 2 & 7 with Revelation. Daniel and Revelation perfectly complete the historic picture and show us a far more detailed view of the Roman fourth beast. Which I have already stated goes from its inception right though its legs into the feet and right to the return of Christ. Where he smashes the image (upon its feet) at the end of of this age.

I appreciate you see it differently but wondered how you reconcile both Daniel & Revelation?

Alethos

ps. from time to time I do quote from very old works (200 years) but they are not on the net and no copyright applies. I study the old fashioned way...from a real book with words penned in ink

There's no doubt the locust have something to do with Muslim's. Adam Clark and Halley's both mention the Islamic connection.

How do you and the others associate it with Rome is what I would like to ask.

Are there any verses that associate Rome with any end-time events? You really have to consider that there are not. Not one verse indicates that Rome would have anything to do with the end. Every kingdom and every nation mentioned in end-time prophecy is from the Middle-East. Every empire mentioned in the great statue are Mid-Eastern Empires since Rome is excluded by the words in the text. The evil one is destined to originate from the Grecian Empire in Daniel 2 , 8, and 11. When the stone strikes the 'iron and clay' it destroys all the kingdoms of the statue which are nations from a 'revived Grecian empire' ...if you will.

So my question to you is...

Where do the scriptures implicate Rome?

 

[veteran]

[/list]

The 4 World Empires ONLY

“These great beasts, which are four, are four Kings, which shall arise out of the earth. But the saints of the most High shall take the Kingdom, and possess the Kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever” – Daniel 7:17-18

If you understood Dan 2&7 you would see the fourth Kingdom (timeline) ends upon the Lords return. So even if you agree with the above listed Kingdoms you are left no room for your Islalmic 5th Beast. Or are you suggesting the Greeks are Islamic - now I would lilke to this one resolved.

Sorry no fifth beast in Dan 7!

But should better read:

1. The gold head - Babylon
2. The silver breast and arms - Media - Persia (two seperate arms)
3. The copper belly and thighs - Greco
4. The iron legs - Roman (East and West as history protrays)
5. The feet partly of iron and partly of molded clay - (Fragmented Rome represented today by the EU and as the scriptures clrearly state the clay is average men and woman who inhabit the earth (who now have power).

Did you notice once again NO FIFTH BEAST only four...Four beasts four Kings NO fifth beast

But I am sure you will try to fit another Beast in wont you?

Alethos

Though I don't agree with everything in kaoticprofit's layout, I do agree there is evidence in the Book of Daniel for a 5th and final beast kingdom per the Scripture. I don't believe our Lord made that plain like He did with the previous four.

If you keep looking at the beast pattern for His time of return, you should begin to see a 5th represented by the feet. Dan.2:35 reveals FIVE PIECES of the image (gold, silver, brass, iron, clay and iron). All it states all of them 'together' come tumbling down when smitten upon the feet of ten toes of iron mixed with clay.

Dan.2:45 shows FIVE pieces again, all together being broken at Christ's return with His Kingdom being setup instead. Dan.2:44 even is specific about kings over it existing at the time when God sets up His Kingdom instead, put for the time of Christ's return.

In Dan.7 is defined ten kings over the 4th beast, with a another king coming up in midst of the ten, just like Rev.17 shows with 11 kings total. And, the same Message again like Dan.2 with its defeat in the days of Christ's Kingdom being setup on earth to destroy it.

Because of this, some Bible scholars treat that 4th beast as the final one, with some pointing it to the Roman Church with the fall of the papacy by Napoleon. But obvioulsy our Lord Jesus did not return to gather His saints back then, so the Roman Church did not fulfill the pattern in Daniel. The Roman Empire didn't fit the iron and clay either, since the Roman empire ended and Christ's return is still expecting today. So those have been forced to come up with a modification, the idea that the Roman empire is going to rise again in the last days, and thus their pointing to the EU.

But the EU is 31 nations now, and will probably become many more before Christ's return. The prophecy of ten toes, and the Rev.17 ten kings would have to be in place just over the EU for it to mean the EU. We don't see that today.

And another requirement, the ten horned beast must include the area of Jerusalem, for Jerusalem and Israel is central to the prophecies Daniel was given.

So, do we see Rome taking power over Jerusalem today? No, not really. Will it? I don't think so, personally. So who on earth really is in power over the holy land and Jerusalem today? The Jews in Israel? Yes and no. We must not forget that every time radical Islam strikes at Israel and the Jews conquer outside their borders, there's always some supra-national intervention to force the Jews to give back those conquered lands to the Palestinians. That group is called the United Nations. It was also by U.N. Charter vote by the nations that Israel became a nation-state in 1948 again.

It has also been the United Nations sponsoring the nations going to war against radicals of Islam to try and preserve the peace. U.S. President George H. Bush said after the 1990 Gulf War at a U.N. podium that the purpose of the Gulf War was "to empower the United Nations". 28 nations participated in the 1990 Gulf War against Saddam. The U.S. and Britain simply made up the main forces, but that many nations sent troops in that conflict.

The present authority for the U.S. and other nations against radical Islam is also from U.N. resolutions. The U.S. is not acting alone, but is being used actually as a strong-arm for the U.N. And of course, the U.N. does not only include the nations of the E.U. Those present signs show us to look at a much wider spanse for the setting up of the ten horned beast of mixed clay and iron than just the E.U. or Rome. There are also Arab nations in those U.N. agreements also supporting the U.N. resolutions against radical Islam. That's why pointers cannot just be to all Islamic peoples either.

The list of nations that are to come upon Israel on the last day of this world per Ezekiel 38 reveals what the real alliances against God's people are. And at present the West is at peace with some of those nations on that list, like Russia, Turkey, and Ethiopia. But Russia and Red China are allied with radical Islamic nations like Syria and Iran (old Persia). And those on that list are U.N. members too. Thus it's those behind the U.N. structure that the final world beast is really pointing to. Watch the U.N. actions and Jerusalem for the end especially.

 

[revturmoil]

Veteran,

A good reply over all and it appears that you are keeping an open mind and eye on it all and I appreciate that. It seems you are interested in the different views I bring up. I don't expect people to agree with me, I just hope they consider the results of my studies.

You said,

And another requirement, the ten horned beast must include the area of Jerusalem, for Jerusalem and Israel is central to the prophecies Daniel was given.

Why must Israel be included in the ten horned beast? It seems to me that the coalitions mentioned in scripture (Ps. 83 and Ez. 38-39) want to see Israel destroyed. And every verse and event in the end appears to be against Israel in one form or another and not as Israel being part of it.
It's just like the covenant with many. It's not a peace treaty and how do people come up with the idea that Israel is part of it?

 

[Alethos]

Though I don't agree with everything in kaoticprofit's layout, I do agree there is evidence in the Book of Daniel for a 5th and final beast kingdom per the Scripture. I don't believe our Lord made that plain like He did with the previous four.

If you keep looking at the beast pattern for His time of return, you should begin to see a 5th represented by the feet. Dan.2:35 reveals FIVE PIECES of the image (gold, silver, brass, iron, clay and iron). All it states all of them 'together' come tumbling down when smitten upon the feet of ten toes of iron mixed with clay.

Dan.2:45 shows FIVE pieces again, all together being broken at Christ's return with His Kingdom being setup instead. Dan.2:44 even is specific about kings over it existing at the time when God sets up His Kingdom instead, put for the time of Christ's return.

In Dan.7 is defined ten kings over the 4th beast, with a another king coming up in midst of the ten, just like Rev.17 shows with 11 kings total. And, the same Message again like Dan.2 with its defeat in the days of Christ's Kingdom being setup on earth to destroy it.

Because of this, some Bible scholars treat that 4th beast as the final one, with some pointing it to the Roman Church with the fall of the papacy by Napoleon. But obvioulsy our Lord Jesus did not return to gather His saints back then, so the Roman Church did not fulfill the pattern in Daniel. The Roman Empire didn't fit the iron and clay either, since the Roman empire ended and Christ's return is still expecting today. So those have been forced to come up with a modification, the idea that the Roman empire is going to rise again in the last days, and thus their pointing to the EU.

But the EU is 31 nations now, and will probably become many more before Christ's return. The prophecy of ten toes, and the Rev.17 ten kings would have to be in place just over the EU for it to mean the EU. We don't see that today.

And another requirement, the ten horned beast must include the area of Jerusalem, for Jerusalem and Israel is central to the prophecies Daniel was given.

So, do we see Rome taking power over Jerusalem today? No, not really. Will it? I don't think so, personally. So who on earth really is in power over the holy land and Jerusalem today? The Jews in Israel? Yes and no. We must not forget that every time radical Islam strikes at Israel and the Jews conquer outside their borders, there's always some supra-national intervention to force the Jews to give back those conquered lands to the Palestinians. That group is called the United Nations. It was also by U.N. Charter vote by the nations that Israel became a nation-state in 1948 again.

It has also been the United Nations sponsoring the nations going to war against radicals of Islam to try and preserve the peace. U.S. President George H. Bush said after the 1990 Gulf War at a U.N. podium that the purpose of the Gulf War was "to empower the United Nations". 28 nations participated in the 1990 Gulf War against Saddam. The U.S. and Britain simply made up the main forces, but that many nations sent troops in that conflict.

The present authority for the U.S. and other nations against radical Islam is also from U.N. resolutions. The U.S. is not acting alone, but is being used actually as a strong-arm for the U.N. And of course, the U.N. does not only include the nations of the E.U. Those present signs show us to look at a much wider spanse for the setting up of the ten horned beast of mixed clay and iron than just the E.U. or Rome. There are also Arab nations in those U.N. agreements also supporting the U.N. resolutions against radical Islam. That's why pointers cannot just be to all Islamic peoples either.

The list of nations that are to come upon Israel on the last day of this world per Ezekiel 38 reveals what the real alliances against God's people are. And at present the West is at peace with some of those nations on that list, like Russia, Turkey, and Ethiopia. But Russia and Red China are allied with radical Islamic nations like Syria and Iran (old Persia). And those on that list are U.N. members too. Thus it's those behind the U.N. structure that the final world beast is really pointing to. Watch the U.N. actions and Jerusalem for the end especially.

The Stone and the Mountain is the Fifth and final Kingdom.

Over the years many have tried to work in a fifth beast but the scripture is clear, only four are presented in Daniel 7, which assumes the iron in the legs going into the feet are a continuation of that empire. If some think it is Grecian? They are entitled to that view. I believe history reveals The Babylon, Medo – Persian, Grecian, and the Roman Empires are historically traced. Today the area of that Roman Empire is broken and divided and trying to cling to the clay; these fragments are the Old Roman Empire.

The scriptures speak to the feet being a continuation of the legs. That is very clearly presented and to speak otherwise is wresting the scriptures.

Dan 7:7 it had large IRON teeth: This beast with the legs and feet of the Image in Dan 2:33.

Crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left.

If we confined this above verse to Rome’s treatment of Israel one could find support for Rome as the empire being referenced. Dan 2:40

This fourth beast is brutal and cruel. This beast is presented as being fiercer than all the others. In fact here the Chaldean word for dreadful is used (Dechal) means to slink in fear or to crawl. The scripture is not holding back in its description of how insatiably ravenous this beast is of all four. And Terrible again a Chaldean word for burly, strong and mighty ( Dan 2:31; Dan 7:19). And strong exceeding being made iron and as strong as iron it is able to break everything which goes before it in pieces. There history records the Roman Empire seven hundred and fifty-three years before the birth of Christ, the city of Rome is said to have been founded by Romulus, its first king. As century after century passed away, its power increased, so that it became "strong as iron". History reveals its emperors wore iron crowns. Rome’s army was extremely discipline, a killing machine. At the height of her power she was invincible...history records this to be true and correct.

Quote:

Dionysius Halicarnassas recorded: 'The empire of the Romans pervades all regions of the earth which are not inaccessible but are inhabited by mankind; it reigns also over the whole sea, and it is the first and only one that has made the east and west its boundaries; and there is no people that does not recognise Rome as the universal mistress, or that refuses to submit to its dominion".

It devoured and brake in pieces Daniel must have seen this fearful Beast on a blood thirsty rampage swallowing up territory after territory. Rome finally turned to the East and in B.C. 168 Macedonia was swallowed up; in B.C. 133 Pergamum was bequeathed to Rome by its king and claimed by the Empire; in B.C. 65 Syria was occupied; in B.C. 30 Egypt succumbed. The Mediterranean was now a Roman Lake, and the rule of the Emperors extended from Rome, East to Palestine and Egypt; and West to Gaul and Britain.

Daniel noticed that Rome devoured what it wanted to consume and destroyed the remainder. Rome brought all territories of the three previous empires under its control except the Eastern portion of Persia.

Rome “stamped the residue with the feet of it" Whatever was left of the three previous beast kingdoms this fourth beast would need to eventually stamp out the residue, or what’s left of the other kingdoms?

Hence this fourth beast over time would eventually takes us to Dan 7:20-21 where it takes it fight to the Saints

Conclusion:

Whatever is believed about this fourth beast, one must conclude that history should clearly and unmistakably answer to its description Dan 7:7.

I don’t believe you can provide a feasible alternative to Rome.

Alethos

 

[Alethos]

There's no doubt the locust have something to do with Muslim's. Adam Clark and Halley's both mention the Islamic connection.

How do you and the others associate it with Rome is what I would like to ask.

Are there any verses that associate Rome with any end-time events? You really have to consider that there are not. Not one verse indicates that Rome would have anything to do with the end. Every kingdom and every nation mentioned in end-time prophecy is from the Middle-East. Every empire mentioned in the great statue are Mid-Eastern Empires since Rome is excluded by the words in the text. The evil one is destined to originate from the Grecian Empire in Daniel 2 , 8, and 11. When the stone strikes the 'iron and clay' it destroys all the kingdoms of the statue which are nations from a 'revived Grecian empire' ...if you will.

So my question to you is...

Where do the scriptures implicate Rome?

Again you really need to have a grasp on history to understand Revelation 9.

The falling star, the bottomless pit, the smoking furnace, the army of locusts, and the king who leads them to battle, is seen to be the uprise of Mahomet and the Sacacens in 622, and their attacks against the eastern Roman, or Byzantine Empire.

If you enquire you will find your Greek connection only that they were Greek speaking in eastern Rome. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire or http://biblefocus.net/files/RevelationC.pdf

The trumpet is directed toward Eastern Rome.

I think if you spend some time in Revelation 9 you will see God sounding out his judgements against the Roman Empire...as History has shown it to be!

If you do believe Revelation 9 is the Muslims you have to admit God sent them against eastern Rome.

Alethos

ps it may be of benefit for you to read “The history of the decline and fall of the Roman empire" By Edward Gibbon

 

[revturmoil]

Again you really need to have a grasp on history to understand Revelation 9.

I do???!!! And all along I thought you weren't hanging on!

The falling star, the bottomless pit, the smoking furnace, the army of locusts, and the king who leads them to battle, is seen to be the uprise of Mahomet and the Sacacens in 622, and their attacks against the eastern Roman, or Byzantine Empire.

If you enquire you will find your Greek connection only that they were Greek speaking in eastern Rome. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire or http://biblefocus.net/files/RevelationC.pdf

The trumpet is directed toward Eastern Rome.

I think if you spend some time in Revelation 9 you will see God sounding out his judgements against the Roman Empire...as History has shown it to be!

If you do believe Revelation 9 is the Muslims you have to admit God sent them against eastern Rome.

ps it may be of benefit for you to read “The history of the decline and fall of the Roman empire"

Where's your evidence for this Roman connection of yours!

Present your case by yourself because your links prove nothing that you claim abour Revelation 9.

 

[revturmoil]

Truth,

You need to bring your argument to the forum instead of posting a couple links. Be more specific in what your trying to say. I did a quick over view on the chapter about locust and it seems like he's saying it's history but I'm not sure. Why are we discussing the locust thing any way? I thought you were going to prove your case about the inferior kingdom. If you think Rev. 9 has any bearing on Daniel 2 you're mistaken. All you did was post someone elses article and tell me you do things the old fashion way and use books.

Daniel 2 is the OP.

 

[Alethos]

Truth,

You need to bring your argument to the forum instead of posting a couple links. Be more specific in what your trying to say. I did a quick over view on the chapter about locust and it seems like he's saying it's history but I'm not sure. Why are we discussing the locust thing any way? I thought you were going to prove your case about the inferior kingdom. If you think Rev. 9 has any bearing on Daniel 2 you're mistaken. All you did was post someone elses article and tell me you do things the old fashion way and use books.

Daniel 2 is the OP.

I wanted to see how much you knew about Roman & Islamic History. Clearly you have answered my question. You stated Rev 9 has to do with Islam. I say this is the sixth trumpet sounding out against Eastern Rome.

Remember the legs and the feet takes us to Christ. I think I have said this a number of times and Dan 2 & 7 are extremely clear on this point.

What sayest thou?

Is Rev 9 the sixth trumpet sounding out its judgement against Eastern Rome?

If you dont know just say so...I can move on to further demonstrate Rome is the 4th Beast of Dan 7.

Alethos

 

[revturmoil]

I wanted to see how much you knew about Roman & Islamic History. Clearly you have answered my question. You stated Rev 9 has to do with Islam. I say this is the sixth trumpet sounding out against Eastern Rome.

Remember the legs and the feet takes us to Christ. I think I have said this a number of times and Dan 2 & 7 are extremely clear on this point.

What sayest thou?

Is Rev 9 the sixth trumpet sounding out its judgement against Eastern Rome?

If you dont know just say so...I can move on to further demonstrate Rome is the 4th Beast of Dan 7.

Alethos

Start a thread on Rev. 9 and present your argument. I'm not dealing with it here. I'm still waiting for a scriptural explanation about this copy and paste "governmental inferiority" you and veteran believe in. It's too bad none of it can be proven.

Remember the legs and the feet takes us to Christ. I think I have said this a number of times and Dan 2 & 7 are extremely clear on this point.

You've been extermely clear on what! I don't care if you've said it 100 times you've proven nothing! A sentence or two of copy and paste means nothing.

What sayest thou?

Is this all you've got?

 

[Alethos]

Start a thread on Rev. 9 and present your argument. I'm not dealing with it here. I'm still waiting for a scriptural explanation about this copy and paste "governmental inferiority" you and veteran believe in. It's too bad none of it can be proven.



You've been extermely clear on what! I don't care if you've said it 100 times you've proven nothing! A sentence or two of copy and paste means nothing.



Is this all you've got?

Do you believe the government from Babylon to the governments of EU Nations today have weakened?

Yes or no will do.

 

[revturmoil]

Do you believe the government from Babylon to the governments of EU Nations today have weakened?

Yes or no will do.

Listen. Make your case and present it. Prove your point about the inferior kingdom.

 

[tomwebster]

I disagree with your interpretation of Daniel. It is part of the 1260.

 

[Alethos]

Listen. Make your case and present it. Prove your point about the inferior kingdom.

I put to you a simple question one which only required a yes or no answer.

If you say no...then you are saying Nebuchadnezzar wasn’t all powerful in his kingdom, which of course is unscriptural. However if you say yes, the basis for your argument is undone.

The rise of democracy is proof alone governments are weakening in these last days. Nebuchadnezzars power was weakened and distributed through all those empires until it was given to the seed of men which is clearly the case today.

Either way, I see why you are reluctant to answer this very simple question.

 

[Alethos]

Listen. Make your case and present it. Prove your point about the inferior kingdom.

What's also interesting about the fourth beast being Rome in it being terrifying and frightening and very powerful is comparing it to Greece, where Greece fell fairly quickly as an empire the rise and fall of the Roman Empire was very slow due to its obvious strength. History has recorded it so in accordance to Dan 2&7.

This in my view this adds another support for Rome being the fourth beast. As stated previously the strength of Rome is well recorded and better describes the apparent strength of the fourth beast compared with the others.

Rome began in 241 BC with the occupation of Sicily. Gradually it expanded throughout the whole Mediterranean world; Western Europe including Britain, Gaul, and Spain; and western Asia as far east as the Caspian Sea and the Persian Gulf. It formally ended in 410 AD when the Visigoths sacked Rome. However, its governmental influence persisted as late as 1453 AD, when the last Roman ruler died in battle in Constantinople.

The revelation also demonstrates these various judgements against Rome and the Holy Roman Empire.



But thats another study

Alethos.

 

[revturmoil]

I put to you a simple question one which only required a yes or no answer.

If you say no...then you are saying Nebuchadnezzar wasn’t all powerful in his kingdom, which of course is unscriptural. However if you say yes, the basis for your argument is undone.

The rise of democracy is proof alone governments are weakening in these last days. Nebuchadnezzars power was weakened and distributed through all those empires until it was given to the seed of men which is clearly the case today.

Either way, I see why you are reluctant to answer this very simple question.

Your question is meaningless. It has nothing to do with the description of the empires or the inferior kingdom. You're going off into all sorts of unnecessary directions.

You also disregard the word mixed which describes the iron and clay. It infers an Arabian. How can an Arabian imply a Roman?

 

[Alethos]

Your question is meaningless. It has nothing to do with the description of the empires or the inferior kingdom. You're going off into all sorts of unnecessary directions.

You also disregard the word mixed which describes the iron and clay. It infers an Arabian. How can an Arabian imply a Roman?

"Your question is meaningless"

Some out there may view this comment as being arrogant.

In hindsight do you?

 

[revturmoil]

"Your question is meaningless"

Some out there may view this comment as being arrogant.

In hindsight do you?

Listen buddy you need to start making some sense! If you're trying to debunk the 'inferior kingdom' your question is meaningless! Deal with the issues and forget diverting things.

Your question of...

If you say no...then you are saying Nebuchadnezzar wasn’t all powerful in his kingdom, which of course is unscriptural. However if you say yes, the basis for your argument is undone.

The rise of democracy is proof alone governments are weakening in these last days. Nebuchadnezzars power was weakened and distributed through all those empires until it was given to the seed of men which is clearly the case today.

Is just meaningless. Stay on topic. You're going off into all directions just like veteran does. Prove to me how Persia can be inferior to Babylon. Your governmental inferiority makes no sense and can't be proven! Try again!