Day of the Lord

[Keraz]

But over a period of time from when Israel crossed the River Jordan up to the end of Solomon's reign Israel gained dominion over the lands described in Genesis 15 and then began to lose them as they moved further into their iniquities. Your flawed reasoning is the same flawed reasoning of the Jewish people who now worship the idol of their land believing that if they can once more obtain the "Promised Land," that God will look once more favourable upon them. The promised inheritance to Abraham and His descendants was not the land of Canaan but the whole earth that God would show them over time.

You need to dig much deeper than you have to be able to see the truth of the matter. At the moment you are presenting that which is not from the Lord.

Shalom

Yes, the Lord's holy people will be the only people in the New Heavens and the New Earth, after the Millennium, But before that there will be those who do not obey the Lord.
Our inheritance before then is just the holy Land, from the Nile to the Euphrates. Which has NEVER yet been held only by God's people. In 1 Kings 4:21, we see that Solomon did rule over all of that area, but Israel never drove those gentile people out.

I totally reject your accusation of 'flawed reasoning', and 'that which is not from the Lord'. I use scripture to back up my posts, you use your opinion and fail to support your beliefs with scriptural proofs.

 

[Keraz]

The 2300 representing that amount of days is as obvious as a train smash. By halving it you have violated a primary interpretive principle. Your choice. If you do not see that, any amount of texts won't persuade you.

If you want to believe that one evening and one morning do not represent one day, YOUR choice!
Such a belief violates a whole raft of principals!

I showed when that prophecy was fulfilled, maybe you have somewhere that 2300 days fits? Please don't come out with some weird SDA notion.

 

[quietthinker]

If you want to believe that one evening and one morning do not represent one day, YOUR choice!
Such a belief violates a whole raft of principals!

I showed when that prophecy was fulfilled, maybe you have somewhere that 2300 days fits? Please don't come out with some weird SDA notion.

If there is something weird about what you call the SDA notion, perhaps you can point it out?

 

[Keraz]

If there is something weird about what you call the SDA notion, perhaps you can point it out?

The Seventh Day Adventists try to fit the 2300 evenings and mornings into Millers date of 1844. They make the 2300 into years..
Not sure if I have that right, but don't care if I haven't.

 

[quietthinker]

The Seventh Day Adventists try to fit the 2300 evenings and mornings into Millers date of 1844. They make the 2300 into years..
Not sure if I have that right, but don't care if I haven't.

Its unfortunate that you don't care because it tells me you are set in your hermeneutic which I can't make any sense of.
It is clear to me that the term evening and morning constitute a 24 hour period not a 12 hour period. This manoeuvre of yours is sleight of hand and paints your other exegesis in a similar questionable light.

 

[Jay Ross]

Yes, the Lord's holy people will be the only people in the New Heavens and the New Earth, after the Millennium, But before that there will be those who do not obey the Lord.
Our inheritance before then is just the holy Land, from the Nile to the Euphrates. Which has NEVER yet been held only by God's people. In 1 Kings 4:21, we see that Solomon did rule over all of that area, but Israel never drove those gentile people out.

I totally reject your accusation of 'flawed reasoning', and 'that which is not from the Lord'. I use scripture to back up my posts, you use your opinion and fail to support your beliefs with scriptural proofs.

Why do I need to quote scriptures to back up my views when your own scriptural references debunk the views that you expresses. I have already shown where your error is in your understanding of these scriptures, but you will nor listen or consider what I post is factual in every regard.

I now have a headache after butting heads with your stubbiness and cannot see how the discussion between us can progress.

Shalom

 

[Keraz]

Its unfortunate that you don't care because it tells me you are set in your hermeneutic which I can't make any sense of.
It is clear to me that the term evening and morning constitute a 24 hour period not a 12 hour period. This manoeuvre of yours is sleight of hand and paints your other exegesis in a similar questionable light.

You now attempt to confuse the issue by accusing me of calling a day, just a 12 hour period. A day is of course, 24 hours and consists of one morning and one evening.
You fail to make sense of the Prophetic Word as I preset it because you have chosen to believe false teachings. Your bad.

Jay Ross, your refusal to provide proper rebuttal to the scriptural truths I present, on the flimsy pretext that it gives you an headache, is seen as a cop out, made because the history of ancient Israel as recorded in the Bible, proves that they never fulfilled God's Promise to the Patriarchs of their descendants occupying all of the holy Land.
Modern Israel surely does not fulfil it either. It will be after the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, that Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Zechariah 8:1-8,+ will take place, with every faithful Christian from every race, nation and language, Revelation 7:9, living in peace and prosperity, Ezekiel 36:8-12, being the people God always wanted there, but has never yet had. Great will be the time!

 

[Jay Ross]

You now attempt to confuse the issue by accusing me of calling a day, just a 12 hour period. A day is of course, 24 hours and consists of one morning and one evening.
You fail to make sense of the Prophetic Word as I preset it because you have chosen to believe false teachings. Your bad.

Jay Ross, your refusal to provide proper rebuttal to the scriptural truths I present, on the flimsy pretext that it gives you an headache, is seen as a cop out, made because the history of ancient Israel as recorded in the Bible, proves that they never fulfilled God's Promise to the Patriarchs of their descendants occupying all of the holy Land.
Modern Israel surely does not fulfil it either. It will be after the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, that Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Zechariah 8:1-8,+ will take place, with every faithful Christian from every race, nation and language, Revelation 7:9, living in peace and prosperity, Ezekiel 36:8-12, being the people God always wanted there, but has never yet had. Great will be the time!

Get a life Keraz. The translations you have used to justify your POV reflect a "land" mentality rather than the "whole earth" understanding of God's promise to Abraham in Genesis 12:1. The amount of rebuttal of every error on your part is too big an enterprise to undertake. God did promise in a sign solemn covenant that he would give the "Promised Land" to Israel as confirmation that in the distant future they would inherit the whole earth.

Since you do not believe this, the evidence you look for from the English translations supports your POV.

All I have been saying is that this POV is in error and I am butting my head against a brick wall in trying to convince you otherwise.

Shalom

 

[Keraz]

Get a life Keraz. The translations you have used to justify your POV reflect a "land" mentality rather than the "whole earth" understanding of God's promise to Abraham in Genesis 12:1. The amount of rebuttal of every error on your part is too big an enterprise to undertake. God did promise in a sign solemn covenant that he would give the "Promised Land" to Israel as confirmation that in the distant future they would inherit the whole earth.

Since you do not believe this, the evidence you look for from the English translations supports your POV.

All I have been saying is that this POV is in error and I am butting my head against a brick wall in trying to convince you otherwise.

Shalom

Genesis 12:1 doesn't say God gave the whole earth to Abraham. Please retract this error.
You give no rebuttal because you have none. I have shown how wrong you are about Israel occupying all of the holy Land.

However, the Lord's holy people, that is: every faithful Christian, His sheep, will do so in the end times. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 62:1-5, Romans 9:24-26
Then after the Millennium, all of God's people will live on the New Earth.

 

[Jay Ross]

Genesis 12:1 doesn't say God gave the whole earth to Abraham. Please retract this error.
You give no rebuttal because you have none. I have shown how wrong you are about Israel occupying all of the holy Land.

However, the Lord's holy people, that is: every faithful Christian, His sheep, will do so in the end times. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 62:1-5, Romans 9:24-26
Then after the Millennium, all of God's people will live on the New Earth.

The same Hebrew word found in Genesis.12:1 is also found in Genesis.1:1. Now if you want to say that the word in 12:1 is not the same Hebrew word found in 1:1 then I rest my case. It is my view that the context of the circumstances of Abraham's call does not change the meaning of this Hebrew word as you believe it does. The error is yours and the translators who claim that the context of Abraham going down to the Land of Canaan forces a change in the meaning of the Hebrew word found in 12:1 from earth to land.

If we can agree that the meaning of the same Hebrew word is the same in both instances in 1.1 and 12.1 of Genesis, then I can proceed in showing you the rest of your errors in your understanding of God's Promises and prophetic words to the Nation of Israel.

Shalom

 

[quietthinker]

You now attempt to confuse the issue by accusing me of calling a day, just a 12 hour period. A day is of course, 24 hours and consists of one morning and one evening.
You fail to make sense of the Prophetic Word as I preset it because you have chosen to believe false teachings. Your bad.

Jay Ross, your refusal to provide proper rebuttal to the scriptural truths I present, on the flimsy pretext that it gives you an headache, is seen as a cop out, made because the history of ancient Israel as recorded in the Bible, proves that they never fulfilled God's Promise to the Patriarchs of their descendants occupying all of the holy Land.
Modern Israel surely does not fulfil it either. It will be after the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, that Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Zechariah 8:1-8,+ will take place, with every faithful Christian from every race, nation and language, Revelation 7:9, living in peace and prosperity, Ezekiel 36:8-12, being the people God always wanted there, but has never yet had. Great will be the time!

Here is your quote from the thread 2300 days of Daniel 8:14
post #4 (I have the bolded the section where you make the statement of 2300 evenings and mornings being 1150 days.)

'What is true, is that the 2300 evenings and mornings are actually 1150 days. There is one evening and one morning per day.
That time period was exactly fulfilled from the desecration of the Temple by Antiochus Epiphanes 4th in 167BC, until the Temple was re-dedicated in 164BC. All as described in 1 Maccabees, Bible Apocrypha.
So that prophecy in Daniel 8:13-14 has been fulfilled. However there will be another final fulfilment of the Temple desecration, but there will be 1260 days or maybe 1290 days before re-dedication the next time.'

 

[Keraz]

Here is your quote from the thread 2300 days of Daniel 8:14
post #4 (I have the bolded the section where you make the statement of 2300 evenings and mornings being 1150 days.)

Daniel 8:14 does NOT say: 2300 evenings and 2300 mornings. It says 2300 evenings and mornings, so normal understanding is that there is half of each, a total of 1150 days. Proved by the 1150 days fulfilled in 167 to 164 BC.
I note that the KJV says: 2300 days. Just another example of KJV mis-translation and error.

Jay Ross, your understanding is colored by what you have already decided the prophesies mean. We will see the truth in due course.

 

[quietthinker]

Daniel 8:14 does NOT say: 2300 evenings and 2300 mornings. It says 2300 evenings and mornings, so normal understanding is that there is half of each, a total of 1150 days. Proved by the 1150 days fulfilled in 167 to 164 BC.
I note that the KJV says: 2300 days. Just another example of KJV mis-translation and error.

Jay Ross, your understanding is colored by what you have already decided the prophesies mean. We will see the truth in due course.

LOL....I'm sorry, that position is not persuasive. It comes through as just another convenient sidestep or should I say, glaring misinterpretation, in order to shore up your theory.

 

[Keraz]

LOL....I'm sorry, that position is not persuasive. It comes through as just another convenient sidestep or should I say, glaring misinterpretation, in order to shore up your theory.

So then, it's up to you to make a persuasive theory of where a 2300 day period may fit.
I think I have already said; don't make them out to be 2300 years, as I will immediately call you out on that.

 

[Jay Ross]

Daniel 8:14 does NOT say: 2300 evenings and 2300 mornings. It says 2300 evenings and mornings, so normal understanding is that there is half of each, a total of 1150 days. Proved by the 1150 days fulfilled in 167 to 164 BC.
I note that the KJV says: 2300 days. Just another example of KJV mis-translation and error.

Jay Ross, your understanding is colored by what you have already decided the prophesies mean. We will see the truth in due course.

That is true, we will see the truth in due course, but is not your "truth" based on a flawed understanding of God's Call to Abraham and because of that your interpretations and understanding colour the rest of your understanding of the Prophecies in the Bible. But this word is not the only word that has been translated badly and words like "forever" need to be looked at closely as they are generally from a word that has the meaning of a long period of time which is difficult to comprehend.

The things is that you are the one being called out in this instance and your defence is to keep telling us that only you are right and have understanding.

As I previously said if we can agree on what God promised Abraham in Gen.12:1 we can continue this discussion. If you can convince me that the Hebrew word הָאָ֖רֶץ has two meaning in scripture, and that it can also mean "land" because of the context of the Gen.12:1 verse, then I will not persist in calling you out for a flawed understanding.

Until you can convince me that you are right, then I will continue to call you out.

Shalom

PS: - Where is the Promised Land found in Dan.7:27 as the parcel of land that will be given to the Saints?

 

[quietthinker]

So then, it's up to you to make a persuasive theory of where a 2300 day period may fit.
I think I have already said; don't make them out to be 2300 years, as I will immediately call you out on that.

As the seventy week prophecy represents a day for a year so does the 2300 day prophecy. That is consistent and any attempt to twist the understanding of evening and morning to make them represents 1150 days/years is out out the question if you want to be consistent. The only starting point given is the decree to rebuild Jerusalem being 457 BC as brakelite has pointed out.

If you understood the role of the cleansing of the Sanctuary in the Hebrew system which as Paul says was a shadow just as other parts of the that system were shadows it is totally feasible that the 2300 day prophecy reaches to 1844 using the starting point of 457 BC.
I guess you struggle with that because I perceive your hermeneutic is crooked and won't allow you to consider it.
There is of course much more to be said on this matter but is there any point if your cup is full?

 

[Keraz]

Woohoo; Jesus said that many would be deceived.....

 

[quietthinker]

Woohoo; Jesus said that many would be deceived.....

Keraz....sufficient ego will dismiss your quote above as applying to self and apply it to all they don't agree with.
Have you considered Jesus said this for all to self reflect on rather than using his words to elevate self.

 

[Keraz]

So it isn't deceived to say that 2300 evenings and mornings is 2300 years?
It isn't deceived to use the decree in Daniel 9:25 to fit with 1844? The start of the decree cannot be ascertained 100% sure, but we know that 69 'weeks', that is; 483 years passed from it until the Crucifixion. Only 7 years await fulfilment in the end times.

What happened in 1844, was an early example of end times false prediction.

 

[quietthinker]

So it isn't deceived to say that 2300 evenings and mornings is 2300 years?
It isn't deceived to use the decree in Daniel 9:25 to fit with 1844? The start of the decree cannot be ascertained 100% sure, but we know that 69 'weeks', that is; 483 years passed from it until the Crucifixion. Only 7 years await fulfilment in the end times.

What happened in 1844, was an early example of end times false prediction.

it seems you are unfamiliar with the surrounding history of 1844. It's well worth getting familiar with.