Death Penalty

[Duckybill]

Jesus didn't do violence to anyone. Neither did the Apostles except Peter whom Jesus rebuked for doing so. Jesus was our example.

1 Peter 2:21-23 (ESV)
21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. 22 He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. 23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly.

You still haven't given even one example where Christians used violence, other than Peter. Do you really believe you can defeat Satan with a sword?

 

[Groundzero]

The death penalty was for a nation which was suppose to be Godly. In today's society, that is no longer possible. The best thing we can do? Reach people with Jesus.

 

[biggandyy]

I would that one innocent man be put to death than 100 guilty men go free. That is assuming, of course, the death penalty was more judiciously used as a tool of the State to enforce the Constitution.

Let's see how many worms slither out of this can

 

[Comm.Arnold]

How about this for a pro-death penalty arguement, there is an individual in ones town. He steals, harrasses lies, stirs up dissension. Over a million people suffer daily because of his evil existence, he causes pollution crime and sorrows unmerited. He has been putting people through hell on earth for twenty years. You put him to death and everyone rejoices is that so wrong ?

 

[Vengle]

How about this for a pro-death penalty arguement, there is an individual in ones town. He steals, harrasses lies, stirs up dissension. Over a million people suffer daily because of his evil existence, he causes pollution crime and sorrows unmerited. He has been putting people through hell on earth for twenty years. You put him to death and everyone rejoices is that so wrong ?

Compare: 1 John 5:16 "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it."

 

[veteran]

In answer to whether or not Christians are responsible to administer the death penalty...

Rom 13:1-6
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

All the higher powers are ordained by God. Does that include rulers in our own nation that may be a Christian? Yes, of course. We could go back to the U.S. founders in the colonial days for many examples of that, even George Washington. Do you think the death penalty existed in his days, and with those under his authority? Doesn't anyone remember what Benedict Arnold's fate was?


2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
(KJV)

What exactly did Paul mean about a ruler that beareth not the sword in vain? I guarantee, go out and commit a crime worthy of the death penalty, and if you're caught doing such in a state that allow its 'ruler' to bear that sword not in vain, you'll be executed according to God's Authority and Power which Apostle Paul proclaims here in Romans 13.

This is why rulers God has placed in power through history have been given authority by Him to execute His wrath as an "revenger".

Where do you think Apostle Paul got that idea of a ruler being a "revenger" given authority by God? Why would Apostle Paul say such a thing that APPEARS to contradict what our Lord Jesus taught to love our enemies?

It's because our Lord Jesus Christ did NOT do away with all of God's laws which the Liberal Leftist liars have espoused. God's laws against murder are still in effect today. And God's commandment of Thou shalt not kill is about the act of homicide (murder). It's not about just execution or killing in self defense.

When our Lord Jesus also told His disciples to go buy a sword who didn't have one (Luke 22), that too sounds like He was contradicting Himself to those who want to treat Christ's admonition for us to love our enemies to mean not lifting a finger to defend ourself, the fatherless, and the widow.

So if our Lord Jesus told His disciples to go buy a sword who didn't yet have one (we know Apostle Peter carried a sword), then what does that mean for a community or nation having the right of self-defense? Yep, a nation has the right to defend itself against Christ's enemies too.

 

[rockytopva]

For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. - Romans 13: 3,4

And what does the minister of God do with the sword?

 

[brionne]

The death penalty is a very controversial subject. The OT had the death penalty, however, the NT is quiet on this subject. What do you think? Oh, and remember to keep it based on the Scripture.

the NT is non political, thats why it is quiet on the subject of the death penalty. Christians are not litigators or executioners, they were not told to be involved in politics or law enforcement because they were told to be ministers of God... all of them.

and christians are not to interfere with the ruling authorities, rather they were told to be in subjection to them. This makes the death penalty a matter for the state, not religion.

But i still voted no because it is God who will execute judgement on people, and even though he allows governments to exist, it doesnt mean he agrees with their methods of ruling. Romans 12:19 is pretty clear that the ultimate penalty should only come from God who judges men righteously and always 100% accurately.

 

[veteran]

the NT is non political, thats why it is quiet on the subject of the death penalty. Christians are not litigators or executioners, they were not told to be involved in politics or law enforcement because they were told to be ministers of God... all of them.

and christians are not to interfere with the ruling authorities, rather they were told to be in subjection to them. This makes the death penalty a matter for the state, not religion.

But i still voted no because it is God who will execute judgement on people, and even though he allows governments to exist, it doesnt mean he agrees with their methods of ruling. Romans 12:19 is pretty clear that the ultimate penalty should only come from God who judges men righteously and always 100% accurately.

The Romans 13 chapter Apostle Paul gave exists to show... how the death penalty is still in effect per The New Covenant. It's specifically one of the matters Paul addresses in the Rom.13:3-4 verses about God's Authority given to rulers. Lot of those rulers among the Christian west per history have been Christians. So denial of that is not going to make that Scripture go away.

 

[Duckybill]

the NT is non political, thats why it is quiet on the subject of the death penalty. Christians are not litigators or executioners, they were not told to be involved in politics or law enforcement because they were told to be ministers of God... all of them.

and christians are not to interfere with the ruling authorities, rather they were told to be in subjection to them. This makes the death penalty a matter for the state, not religion.

But i still voted no because it is God who will execute judgement on people, and even though he allows governments to exist, it doesnt mean he agrees with their methods of ruling. Romans 12:19 is pretty clear that the ultimate penalty should only come from God who judges men righteously and always 100% accurately.

I must agree with this. It's mind boggling that Christians think they can decide who will live or die. Many have bloody hands.

 

[veteran]

God is angry with the religious leaders of His people that seek to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live...


Ezek 13:17-21
17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,
18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of My people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
19 And will ye pollute Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to My people that hear your lies?
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
(KJV)

 

[Duckybill]

God is angry with the religious leaders of His people that seek to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live...


Ezek 13:17-21
17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,
18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of My people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
19 And will ye pollute Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to My people that hear your lies?
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
(KJV)

Are you saying that you are qualified to decide who lives and who dies?

 

[veteran]

Are you saying that you are qualified to decide who lives and who dies?

I'm saying that GOD is QUALIFIED, as now you even mock Apostle Paul's Message about God's Power and Authority for those He gives to rule and bear that sword upon those who do evil.

What's most ironical is, while those like yourself think you serve Christ by allowing evil to continue unabated, you actually condemn Christ by promoting that no one do anything about it!

 

[Duckybill]

I'm saying that GOD is QUALIFIED, as now you even mock Apostle Paul's Message about God's Power and Authority for those He gives to rule and bear that sword upon those who do evil.

What's most ironical is, while those like yourself think you serve Christ by allowing evil to continue unabated, you actually condemn Christ by promoting that no one do anything about it!

You didn't answer the question. Are you qualified to say who lives or dies?

 

[veteran]

You didn't answer the question. Are you qualified to say who lives or dies?

God is, and He gives that authority to rulers, just as Paul taught in that Romans 13 chapter.

Do you reject God's ordaining of the powers of rulers upon this earth? Are you a Revolutionist, a Communist? Do you seek to overthrow God's ordaining of those rulers and their bearing the sword Paul spoke of?

 

[Duckybill]

God is, and He gives that authority to rulers, just as Paul taught in that Romans 13 chapter.

Do you reject God's ordaining of the powers of rulers upon this earth? Are you a Revolutionist, a Communist? Do you seek to overthrow God's ordaining of those rulers and their bearing the sword Paul spoke of?

Whom do you know who is qualified to decide who lives or dies? Anyone??? You are totally evading the question.

 

[veteran]

Whom do you know who is qualified to decide who lives or dies? Anyone??? You are totally evading the question.

Do those rulers that bear the sword Paul spoke of have God's authority in that, or not? That's the question you've been evading all along.

 

[Duckybill]

Do those rulers that bear the sword Paul spoke of have God's authority in that, or not? That's the question you've been evading all along.

You mean politicians? Gasp!

 

[veteran]

You mean politicians? Gasp!

Greek 'archon', a chief, prince, magistrate, ruler.

 

[Duckybill]

Greek 'archon', a chief, prince, magistrate, ruler.

Yeah, politicians.