Somebody here must have a understanding of the concept of "Faith," Old and New Testaments, and can give us a valid definition? Even been awhile for me.
Old, back to basics, Jack
Old, back to basics, Jack
Definition of a Genuine "Faith"?
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Hi Jack,shturt678 said:
I think Hebrews 11 gives a very comprehensive teaching on the meaning of faith, but perhaps I'm not understanding the question correctly. Could you specify more what you're looking for?
"Faith" is pretty synonymous with the phrase "trust in the Lord" that you'll find in the OT. The NT teaching is that faith is a gift and faith saves, not works. James points out that faith will make works, but note that the works are not the salvation. The obedient of the OT, therefore, are commonly considered "the faithful".
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Faith is suspending your opinion and waiting to see what happens. because of the Fall, our opinions are usually negative and therefore keep us from trusting, loving, and learning from God and neighbor. Jesus tells us to suspend our disbelief and wait on God.
FAITH.............ya want measure after measure after measure after measure.
If someone says....I have faith and that's about all ya get out of them..............then pretty much....... they will never get the measure after measure after measure after measure....................
They will never no whether or not God is working in their lives.
They will never be where they can see God working miracles............soooooooooooooooooooooo if they did......oh-my gosh.....
their faith jumped through the roof...........adding measure to their faith. Another level as the word says.
JAMES 4:8.................is about the only scripture a person needs...................if only they would do the James 4:8 dance........heck try it 30 days....
People in here don't attend church...............for their own silly reasons...don't even attempt.
They make fun of tithing.
They make fun of tongues...............................they just keep shootin themselves in the foot.
The blessings that come with steppin out................hardens your armor........to where no dart penetrates.
Trust me...I'm in a good mood :).......but....ya get threads with 175 views and 8 replys............a Christian should have something to say......for just about anything..........we are not lookers we are now partakers in our new lives in Christ.
I've always been pretty shy growin up.........but after I got saved..............the spirit of timidity went down to the grave :)
If someone says....I have faith and that's about all ya get out of them..............then pretty much....... they will never get the measure after measure after measure after measure....................
They will never no whether or not God is working in their lives.
They will never be where they can see God working miracles............soooooooooooooooooooooo if they did......oh-my gosh.....
their faith jumped through the roof...........adding measure to their faith. Another level as the word says.
JAMES 4:8.................is about the only scripture a person needs...................if only they would do the James 4:8 dance........heck try it 30 days....
People in here don't attend church...............for their own silly reasons...don't even attempt.
They make fun of tithing.
They make fun of tongues...............................they just keep shootin themselves in the foot.
The blessings that come with steppin out................hardens your armor........to where no dart penetrates.
Trust me...I'm in a good mood :).......but....ya get threads with 175 views and 8 replys............a Christian should have something to say......for just about anything..........we are not lookers we are now partakers in our new lives in Christ.
I've always been pretty shy growin up.........but after I got saved..............the spirit of timidity went down to the grave :)
See what happens!??aspen said:
Your opinions my be usually negative, and Im sorry you feel that way, (sincerely Im not trying to mock you friend)
Please show me where Jesus teaches us to "suspend" our disbelief?
My friend in order to suspend disbelief you must have disbelief in the first place, Disbelief is the manifestation of a severe lack of faith and is only the product of the fallen individual if it is left unguarded and un-strengthened. this is the truth!
But thankfully we can turn this around by strengthening our faith, because faith is not in the mere suspension of the disbelief it is in the wise council of the Spirit that dwells in each believer. Those who believe do not also disbelieve the two don't live together, we may have anxiety's but those can be put to rest by the same Spirit.
We are given the assurance of His promises and as believers we have hope in those assurances which shortly replaces disbelief and turns it in to faith which becomes strong and unmoved as every Word of God is also unmoved.
If we do not have faith in the Word of God we can not be strengthened because its in His Word we find Living Water and we are feed by every Word, disbelief is drowned out by overwhelming truth and our Spirits minister to us the principles and promises of God who breathed them.
It can be hard for us sometimes to hold on, especially when times are beyond tough, but a person strong in faith "Mustard seed faith" (Luke 17:6) quickly finds his ground.
Jesus said in (Matthew 7:24-27) “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
This is the very definition of faith my freind. Its one thing to read Gods word but it is quite another to live it. Faith is in our walk not in our walking away.
May God bless you aspen!!
God bless you all today in the name of our beloved Lord Jesus Christ who is forever!!!! xxxxxxxxx
Romans 12:1-2 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Isnt that awesome, so go be transformed!!
Wow! liked all the views, and thank you...we're not done yet.
A trust in the promise was brought forward, great! I should have posited the two sides of faith, that is, the essence of faith in Heb.11:1, and the full definition which were addressed more or less, great!
Decades ago, I could see that the 1.5 hours on Sunday although bringing a lot of money in to the Church wouldn't cut it for me not even knowing Scriptures. Attended a Bible study for 1.5 during the week, and still didn't cut it. Made personal care packages of inexpensive foods and etc. giving to the poor, hearing them out also praying with them, during the week after work and weekends without neglecting the Church...WORKED! Didn't even know Heb.10:25, etc. at that time.
Am old now and cannot get out there much thus this giving to the rich and the poor on this Forum WORKS for me today along with church and other meetings about the precious Cross on Sunday and during the week. My end point:
You folks have been a part of increasing my faith miraculously (our Lord increases our faith of course, however our Lord can and does use others miraculously - Heb.10:25, etc. along with the Lord's Supper, thank you!
Old Jack
btw we're not done yet.......just my two bits
Old Jack
A trust in the promise was brought forward, great! I should have posited the two sides of faith, that is, the essence of faith in Heb.11:1, and the full definition which were addressed more or less, great!
Decades ago, I could see that the 1.5 hours on Sunday although bringing a lot of money in to the Church wouldn't cut it for me not even knowing Scriptures. Attended a Bible study for 1.5 during the week, and still didn't cut it. Made personal care packages of inexpensive foods and etc. giving to the poor, hearing them out also praying with them, during the week after work and weekends without neglecting the Church...WORKED! Didn't even know Heb.10:25, etc. at that time.
Am old now and cannot get out there much thus this giving to the rich and the poor on this Forum WORKS for me today along with church and other meetings about the precious Cross on Sunday and during the week. My end point:
You folks have been a part of increasing my faith miraculously (our Lord increases our faith of course, however our Lord can and does use others miraculously - Heb.10:25, etc. along with the Lord's Supper, thank you!
Old Jack
btw we're not done yet.......just my two bits
Old Jack
Tell me a scripture....and I guarantee ya I'll forget it within 2 minutes......tell me how the scripture rearranged your life....
I will remember it for forever :)
I will remember it for forever :)
Thank you for your response again!RANDOR said:
The ol' mustard seed of faith works for me for sureeeee my brother.
Old Jack
What originally rearranged my life was a small Church singing from the Scriptures as I first stepped through the door thus always supportive of the Church's music ministry plus those breaking the chains of bondage.
Old Jack
Jesus never taught such a thing. Those words were recently spoken repeatedly by Senator Hillary Clinton on a panel calling General Petraeus a liar and calling his report on the status of forces "the Bush report". It's amazing how we reveal who we listen to, take cues from, and learn from by the unique phrases we use. The phrase has nothing to do with faith because faith is not suspending disbelief. People are natural believers, not disbelievers, which is why Jesus told us to become like little children. Little children believe in God without "suspending disbelief". They do so naturally and with great alacrity. They are the epitome and example to us grown ups of genuine faith.Madad21 said:
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I have never heard Hilary Clinton say faith is suspending your disbelief, ever. I do not have a tv. I have been using this phrase to define faith ever since I read 'Fear and Trembling' by Kierkegaard, 20 years ago. Take it up with him.
Suspending your opinion is exercising trust and waiting on that trust is faith. You can try to politicize everything I say that you disagree with vale, but you are wasting your time.
Suspending your opinion is exercising trust and waiting on that trust is faith. You can try to politicize everything I say that you disagree with vale, but you are wasting your time.
Well, Hillary Clinton didn't use it in reference to faith, she used it to call General Petraeus a liar for no other reason than that he was a general under the Bush administration. Well plugged in Leftist that you are, I doubt you missed that. -_-aspen said:
Anyway, what I said is correct and what you said is incorrect. I gave the example Jesus did of children's natural and untortured ability to believe. That's not suspending disbelief.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Childlike faith is indeed, suspending your opinion. Of course, it is a lot easier for children because they haven't formed opinions about very many things, yet. Like children, we need to create a space in our minds for 'wonder', 'trust', and 'awe'. This space is necessary for us to learn beyond our own preconceived notions. Our sanctification occurs in mid-leap of faith.
BTW, I am not a fan of Hilary Clinton. Not that is matters - politics is not important.
So this is a bit of a new low for you Vale; calling me a liar doesn't help your case - it only shows that you are in desperate need of suspending your disbelief - ironic huh?
BTW, I am not a fan of Hilary Clinton. Not that is matters - politics is not important.
So this is a bit of a new low for you Vale; calling me a liar doesn't help your case - it only shows that you are in desperate need of suspending your disbelief - ironic huh?
I've never met a Leftist that doesn't lie and my assumption that all Leftists lie has never let me down. Even your belief that it's ok to support abortion on demand and still call yourself pro life is a lie, so no, you aren't the one exception to an otherwise very dependable maxim.aspen said:
But rather than wax sophisticated, I'll simplify and summarize:
Jesus taught us to be like a child. Children don't "suspend disbelief", they trust with guileless faith. Therefore your definition of faith is at variance with what Jesus taught.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Unbelievable. You remind me of my one-issue-voter friend. Hitler for president, as long as he is against abortion......
I think you are blinded to what I am talking about regarding faith. It is too bad. It is certainly nothing new, Christian philosophers and theologians have been talking about it for centuries. Lol, perhaps you are confusing 'suspending intelligence' with 'suspending disbelief'
Yes, waxing sophisticate is definitely not your cup of tea.......
I think you are blinded to what I am talking about regarding faith. It is too bad. It is certainly nothing new, Christian philosophers and theologians have been talking about it for centuries. Lol, perhaps you are confusing 'suspending intelligence' with 'suspending disbelief'
Yes, waxing sophisticate is definitely not your cup of tea.......
One issue voter? Leftist Democrats are wrong on EVERY issue. I don't have to pick just one.aspen said:
Nor do I need to prove that my acumen is greater on my worst day than yours is on your best. My posts speak for themselves, achieving a caliber of sagacity you could never keep up with.
Christian philosophers and theologians have been talking about child like faith for centuries. I've never read one agree with your "suspend disbelief" nonsense.
And Hitler only suspended abortions for white, non Jewish Germans who fit the Aryan model and encouraged large families, so that a superior race could emerge dominant. That's what really educated people understand about the actual history of it. Only a dunce would try to compare pro lifers to Hitler, but here you are doing it. Go figure.
Thank you folks for caring!
Matt.18:6 (All are formed in unbelief of course) As capable as a little child is of natural trust toward mother, father, etc., so capable it is of having spiritual trust in its heart. iow although it's not the discursive features that make faith what it is, however it's the essential of one's faith is to let it be filled with ever so much discursive thought, intelligent knowledge, and even introspective consciousness which is a child like trust that we are to have.
Old Jack, trusting in the promise which is produced by our Lord, ie, doesn't come from within.
Matt.18:6 (All are formed in unbelief of course) As capable as a little child is of natural trust toward mother, father, etc., so capable it is of having spiritual trust in its heart. iow although it's not the discursive features that make faith what it is, however it's the essential of one's faith is to let it be filled with ever so much discursive thought, intelligent knowledge, and even introspective consciousness which is a child like trust that we are to have.
Old Jack, trusting in the promise which is produced by our Lord, ie, doesn't come from within.
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