Destruction, and other words about it.

[ChristisGod]

I can’t pinpoint my question…it is something like if destruction means The lake of fire is the epitome of destruction Matt, it is permanent. as says 2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

There isn’t really a question, and I’m not trying to prove anything exactly…I’m asking you to consider…if you apply the same for the bodies thrown into the fire to be destroyed, to the heavens and earth that now are …is the same “epitome of destruction” “permanent”
applied to both?

Excellent point sine we know there will be a new heavens and earth we know that destruction cannot mean will not exist. Just like we are new creations in Christ does not mean the old man/nature does not exist.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Excellent point sine we know there will be a new heavens and earth we know that destruction cannot mean will not exist. Just like we are new creations in Christ does not mean the old man/nature does not exist.

exactly. For me it is how can God destroy wonderfully and it be complete and total …yet how does He take that which has been wasted and fit for the dung heap and lift up out from that dung heap. Does that make sense?

 

[ChristisGod]

exactly. For me it is how can God destroy wonderfully and it be complete and total …yet how does He take that which has been wasted and fit for the dung heap and lift up out from that dung heap. Does that make sense?

universalists falsely teach its annihilation. @MatthewG is a universalist just like his false teacher shawn macgeady.

apóleia: destruction, loss
Original Word: ἀπώλεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apóleia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-o'-li-a)
Definition: destruction, loss
Usage: destruction, ruin, loss, perishing; eternal ruin.

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 684 apṓleia (from 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") – destruction, causing someone (something) to be completely severed – cut off (entirely) from what could or should have been. (Note the force of the prefix, apo.) See 622 (apollymi).

684 /apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being (Vine's Expository Dictionary, 165; cf. Jn 11:50; Ac 5:37; 1 Cor 10:9-10; Jude 11).

 

[VictoryinJesus]

apóleia: destruction, loss
Original Word: ἀπώλεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apóleia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-o'-li-a)
Definition: destruction, loss
Usage: destruction, ruin, loss, perishing; eternal ruin.

for me (just an opinion) but Saul/Paul is a good example of enterally ruined. Meaning
Philippians 3:7-8 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

I mean Paul said it several times there…eternally ruined to me means Paul won’t be returning to those things again. To fully be persuaded of better things to the core? A bad thought but like in relationships, when a guy says “she ruined me from ever going there again” …maybe a poor example but not really when considering that woman that leads to death in the proverbs, luring where it says the one who loves her, loves death. We should (Imo) be at least able to relate in the things we once found pleasure in …all the pain and sorrow and death…have we reach a place of “I’m ruined” …I don’t EVER (eternally want to go back there again! God, deliver us from evil…don’t let me go back to eating up my own vomit??

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

for me (just an opinion) but Saul/Paul is a good example of enterally ruined. Meaning
Philippians 3:7-8 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

I mean Paul said it several times there…eternally ruined to me means Paul won’t be returning to those things again. To fully be persuaded of better things to the core? A bad thought but like in relationships, when a guy says “she ruined me from ever going there again” …maybe a poor example but not really when considering that woman that leads to death in the proverbs, luring where it says the one who loves her, loves death. We should (Imo) be at least able to relate in the things we once found pleasure in …all the pain and sorrow and death…have we reach a place of “I’m ruined” …I don’t EVER (eternally want to go back there again! God, deliver us from evil…don’t let me go back to eating up my own vomit??

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

just talking to my husband this morning about destruction. He makes some good points..saying no matter how much you try to tell a person …it has to fail. Ruin has to come.

speaking of destruction …Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

 

[MatthewG]

Reconciliation is what is believed.

I do believe in the universal atonement of Christ for all people.

I do not believe all people will be in the Heavenly Jerusalem above due to having no faith, which is not universlism, @Christophany.

There is only one way, and that is found in Christ Jesus who leads us to relationship with the Father.

 

[MatthewG]

just talking to my husband this morning about destruction. He makes some good points..saying no matter how much you try to tell a person …it has to fail. Ruin has to come.

speaking of destruction …Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Thank you for the insights victory.

 

[MatthewG]

for me (just an opinion) but Saul/Paul is a good example of enterally ruined. Meaning
Philippians 3:7-8 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

I mean Paul said it several times there…eternally ruined to me means Paul won’t be returning to those things again. To fully be persuaded of better things to the core? A bad thought but like in relationships, when a guy says “she ruined me from ever going there again” …maybe a poor example but not really when considering that woman that leads to death in the proverbs, luring where it says the one who loves her, loves death. We should (Imo) be at least able to relate in the things we once found pleasure in …all the pain and sorrow and death…have we reach a place of “I’m ruined” …I don’t EVER (eternally want to go back there again! God, deliver us from evil…don’t let me go back to eating up my own vomit??

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Good insights here too thank you.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Good insights here too thank you.

you are welcome. It isn’t from me though. He helps. I still say He is the best counselor. Knowing us better than we know ourselves.

to me it helps with worry and helps with having peace over things feeling like it all so out of control…coming to a place of letting go of having to have control or such a tight grip. That is how He has helped me. Maybe the theology is poor, maybe others would call “wrong!” But for me it has helped day to day. (Imo) it isn’t a bad thing God turns them over to a reprobate mind (we should be able to relate to being there), or where Paul says to put it without for the destruction of the flesh, or where Christ said “go on, make you friends with the unrighteousness of mammon, so that WHEN it fails…” or even the son who wasted all of his inheritance only to return to his fathers in an humbled position …when I panic over day to day; stressed, anxious, worried or feeling as if all is out of control …I remember where Paul spoke of sometimes one may have to go away for a season to return not again as a servant (of sin?) but as above a servant; as a dearly beloved brother. “Failed” “utterly destroyed” “permanently” a servant of sin to return above a servant; as a dearly beloved…

 

[Robert Gwin]

I can’t pinpoint my question…it is something like if destruction means The lake of fire is the epitome of destruction Matt, it is permanent. as says 2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

There isn’t really a question, and I’m not trying to prove anything exactly…I’m asking you to consider…if you apply the same for the bodies thrown into the fire to be destroyed, “permanently” to the heavens and earth that now are …is the same “epitome of destruction” “permanent”
applied to both? Yet from where I’m sitting one is celebrated for “a new heaven and earth” “paradise”…the other celebrated “bodies” permanently destroyed never to rise again.

I will see if I can help to contribute maam. The future in the Bible we both believe will come about, but what does it really teach. We most likely would agree that the future of both the sheep and the goats are permanent. Sheep obviously go off into everlasting life, where again we would likely agree, and we will agree that the goats go off into everlasting punishment, and we might even agree that the goats will be cast into the lake of fire, but that is most likely where we would part ways, correct? We teach what God taught, life or death, you would agree that the wages of sin pays death, and that is very true, however all who die, with the exception of those who sin against the holy spirit will be resurrected. So lets concentrate on those who are cast into the lake of fire, for what reason, it is a symbol that they or it will be gone forever, just like gehenna was originally. The lake of fire is a symbol for the gehenna Jesus mentioned, and in both cases where it occurs in the Bible it identifies itself as the second death. Death is cast into it, hell is cast into it, what does this mean maam. You cannot burn death, nor hell, however when all those who are resurrected out of hell (Rev 20:13) then there is no more need for it, correct? When death is no more (Rev 21:4) there is no more need for it, and when death is gone there is no more need for the abode of the dead (hell), correct? Does this actually make sense to you now Vicky?